The original 35 amp Mitshubitsi alternator on my Westerbeke 10two diesel engine has given up the ghost (Oday 272). A local alternator shop cannot find parts to rebuild it and is recommending I try an AC-Delco automotive alternator if I can figure how to mount it. They can add fire suppression screens for marine use(total cost is under $100). Westerbeke will sell me a "rebuild kit" that raises the amperage to 40 Amps for the princely sum of $525. Balmar has a 75 Amp Marine Alternator that will require an external regulator and again we are over the $500 mark. Balmar thought this would be the best bet to replace the orignal "automotive type with internal regulator" and says I will have to have my wiring checked to make sure it can handle the amp increase from 35 to 75 amps. I am an electrical neophyte. Anyone out there with experience using an automotive alternator in lieu of one designed for the "marine environment"? Or should I belly up and spend the $500 on the Balmar? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Frank
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
J
John
try ebay
There's at least one guy on ebay selling reman'd marine alternators for under $100 (e.g., 63 Amp Delco for $65.). jv
There's at least one guy on ebay selling reman'd marine alternators for under $100 (e.g., 63 Amp Delco for $65.). jv
T
Thomas Ehmke
Frank, are you sure that you have to buy an
external regulator for the Balmar. In the WM catalog the statement is made that "none of the alternators we sell require external regulation". Balmar is all that I see in the catalog under alternators. Tom
external regulator for the Balmar. In the WM catalog the statement is made that "none of the alternators we sell require external regulation". Balmar is all that I see in the catalog under alternators. Tom
E
Ed Schenck
Horsepower?
I am not familiar with your diesel but just know that it takes several horsepower to make 75 amps. I was considering a similar upgrade for my Yanmar 20hp until I realized the load that alternator would generate. I'll settle for something closer to 50 or 55 from the 35. Marathon Diesel in the Keys had a good alternator deal with built-in regulator but their web-site(http://www.yanmardiesel.com/) is not working. Also check Sailor's Sourcebook under "Electrical and Electronics"(http://www.sailingworld.com/ssbk/gear/index.html). Several alternator sources there.
I am not familiar with your diesel but just know that it takes several horsepower to make 75 amps. I was considering a similar upgrade for my Yanmar 20hp until I realized the load that alternator would generate. I'll settle for something closer to 50 or 55 from the 35. Marathon Diesel in the Keys had a good alternator deal with built-in regulator but their web-site(http://www.yanmardiesel.com/) is not working. Also check Sailor's Sourcebook under "Electrical and Electronics"(http://www.sailingworld.com/ssbk/gear/index.html). Several alternator sources there.
J
Jack Gilmour
About 1.5 HP
75 amps at 14 volts at about 85% efficiency with 746 watts per HP gives a little less than 1.5 HP.
75 amps at 14 volts at about 85% efficiency with 746 watts per HP gives a little less than 1.5 HP.
R
Ron Dague
Balmar- Alternator
I am a big fan of the Balmar alternators. But, despite what the West Catalogue might say, you do need an external regulator. However, with the new "smart" voltage regulators, they will extend the life of your batteries, and decrease charging time, even. That is due to the programmed charging rates they use. For a detailed discussion of this take a look at Calder's book on Mechanical and Electrical Systems. I, and many others on this site, continually refer posters to this book for info. It is a MUST for anyone with a sailboat, especially with a diesel on board. In addition, feel free to roam my web site at www.explorescuba.com and click on the "Specifications" section. I have written quite an extensive description of my Balmar alternator set up, why it is a good idea, and included a simplified wiring diagram. (A note: My boat was listed on HOW for sale, which referenced my www.explorescuba.com. I'm sad to say that I believe I have sold her, I'll update you guys in the next day or so when the deal is finalized. It will be sad to be boat-less, and Hunter-less!) Ron
I am a big fan of the Balmar alternators. But, despite what the West Catalogue might say, you do need an external regulator. However, with the new "smart" voltage regulators, they will extend the life of your batteries, and decrease charging time, even. That is due to the programmed charging rates they use. For a detailed discussion of this take a look at Calder's book on Mechanical and Electrical Systems. I, and many others on this site, continually refer posters to this book for info. It is a MUST for anyone with a sailboat, especially with a diesel on board. In addition, feel free to roam my web site at www.explorescuba.com and click on the "Specifications" section. I have written quite an extensive description of my Balmar alternator set up, why it is a good idea, and included a simplified wiring diagram. (A note: My boat was listed on HOW for sale, which referenced my www.explorescuba.com. I'm sad to say that I believe I have sold her, I'll update you guys in the next day or so when the deal is finalized. It will be sad to be boat-less, and Hunter-less!) Ron
F
Frank Conley
Thanks for the replys
Thanks to everyone for the replies. Talked with a marine engine repair shop today and they say to bring in my old alternator. They have a source for the needed rebuild parts and weren't surprized the automotive shop couldn't source the parts. They recommend staying in the 35 amp range to keep the HP draw to a minimum on my 10 HP Westerbeke 10two. Since I have limited draw of electricity with a simple system including lights, fan, knot meter,radio, etc. combined with availability of shore power; the 75 Amp Balmar would be a HP robbing waste. They also recommend going with the Balmar external regulator for reasons given in your postings. Will let you know if the alternator gets rebuilt and I will pick up a copy of Calder's book(s) this weekend. Thanks again, Frank
Thanks to everyone for the replies. Talked with a marine engine repair shop today and they say to bring in my old alternator. They have a source for the needed rebuild parts and weren't surprized the automotive shop couldn't source the parts. They recommend staying in the 35 amp range to keep the HP draw to a minimum on my 10 HP Westerbeke 10two. Since I have limited draw of electricity with a simple system including lights, fan, knot meter,radio, etc. combined with availability of shore power; the 75 Amp Balmar would be a HP robbing waste. They also recommend going with the Balmar external regulator for reasons given in your postings. Will let you know if the alternator gets rebuilt and I will pick up a copy of Calder's book(s) this weekend. Thanks again, Frank
R
Roger Addink
Alternator HP
From a wanabe sailor. The horsepower load on the engine depends on the amps currently (pun intended) being used. If your electrical system is pulling 75 amps, then the load will be 1.5 HP. But if you are only trickle charging your batteries, with no other load, the HP will be minimal. It is the same effect as a car that is idling, if you turn on the lights or the heater you will hear the engine slow down due to the greater load.
From a wanabe sailor. The horsepower load on the engine depends on the amps currently (pun intended) being used. If your electrical system is pulling 75 amps, then the load will be 1.5 HP. But if you are only trickle charging your batteries, with no other load, the HP will be minimal. It is the same effect as a car that is idling, if you turn on the lights or the heater you will hear the engine slow down due to the greater load.
J
Jim McCue
Agree with Ed S.
I had a 35 amp on my H28.5. I upped it to 55 without having any real dogging on the engine. I tried the Marathon dealer but he didn't have my size or could get it in several weeks. They were helpful but it wasn't my fitting size or timing. Try 'em. If you get the 55amp you will probably need a larger "banana" shaped tensioner bracket and some new longer belts as well.( I did) Also call Mack Boring in NJ to see if they have a "surplus" 55amp that may fit your needs (they do Yanmars). Another alternator shop, Lazars in Bergenfield, NJ a tenant in same building as the "Swedish Connection" keeps and rebuilds marine altenators and might be helpful. J. McCue
I had a 35 amp on my H28.5. I upped it to 55 without having any real dogging on the engine. I tried the Marathon dealer but he didn't have my size or could get it in several weeks. They were helpful but it wasn't my fitting size or timing. Try 'em. If you get the 55amp you will probably need a larger "banana" shaped tensioner bracket and some new longer belts as well.( I did) Also call Mack Boring in NJ to see if they have a "surplus" 55amp that may fit your needs (they do Yanmars). Another alternator shop, Lazars in Bergenfield, NJ a tenant in same building as the "Swedish Connection" keeps and rebuilds marine altenators and might be helpful. J. McCue
R
Roger Addink
Alternator HP - continued
The amp rating of an alternator is the maximum amps that it will produce, not the continuous output. The power produced by the altenator (and therefore supplied by the engine) is determined by the product of Volts * Amps. Since the voltage remains (fairly) constant, the power draw on the engine is determined by the amps being used by your electrical system. One other consideration to remember when installing an alternator of greater capacity is the size of your cables and wires. If you increase your alternator size you must ensure that your wire size from the alternator to the distribution panel is adequate to handle the greater amperage. Roger Addink Electrical Engineer
The amp rating of an alternator is the maximum amps that it will produce, not the continuous output. The power produced by the altenator (and therefore supplied by the engine) is determined by the product of Volts * Amps. Since the voltage remains (fairly) constant, the power draw on the engine is determined by the amps being used by your electrical system. One other consideration to remember when installing an alternator of greater capacity is the size of your cables and wires. If you increase your alternator size you must ensure that your wire size from the alternator to the distribution panel is adequate to handle the greater amperage. Roger Addink Electrical Engineer
J
Jim McCue
Correction to my post!
Sorry I provided an inaccurate name for an alternator shop. It is Z-A Auto Electric Inc. 201 385-0907 150 W.Main St. Bergenfield. NJ their site www.geocities.com/za-autoelectric Owner: Zohrab Daghlian Spoke with him as I was in the auto shop next door. He has loads of alternators, rebuilds trade-ins and has marine altenators. Hope this is helpful. J. McCue
Sorry I provided an inaccurate name for an alternator shop. It is Z-A Auto Electric Inc. 201 385-0907 150 W.Main St. Bergenfield. NJ their site www.geocities.com/za-autoelectric Owner: Zohrab Daghlian Spoke with him as I was in the auto shop next door. He has loads of alternators, rebuilds trade-ins and has marine altenators. Hope this is helpful. J. McCue
T
Tom
STOP! take at look at BoatUS . They have High
Output Alternators. I was looking through my BoatUS Catalog (page 387) I noticed a line of Alternators made by Charles Marine and they were ALOT LESS EXPENSIVE that most I've seen. For example the top of the page has Balmar Alternators starting at $370 and going up to $1000 !!! But all the Charles (Marine ?!) alternators are $160 !!!....even the 160 amp or up to 220 amp alternators...they seem legit.....and much less than even stock altenators....they list charging amps at 2500 and 6000 rpm's and say they have direct bolt exchanges more most applications.etc, etc.. I have a feeling they can make these marine alternators at this price but most vendors have kept the prices artificially high because they could and the market (marine!) paid the price. It seems like someone is coming in and being reasonable. Also they seem to have the same warrantee (I'm sure the traditional manufacturers HATE this!)....but at these prices...who cares I could by 2 and keep one as a spare and STILL save money. Anyone seen these alternators.....any comments
Output Alternators. I was looking through my BoatUS Catalog (page 387) I noticed a line of Alternators made by Charles Marine and they were ALOT LESS EXPENSIVE that most I've seen. For example the top of the page has Balmar Alternators starting at $370 and going up to $1000 !!! But all the Charles (Marine ?!) alternators are $160 !!!....even the 160 amp or up to 220 amp alternators...they seem legit.....and much less than even stock altenators....they list charging amps at 2500 and 6000 rpm's and say they have direct bolt exchanges more most applications.etc, etc.. I have a feeling they can make these marine alternators at this price but most vendors have kept the prices artificially high because they could and the market (marine!) paid the price. It seems like someone is coming in and being reasonable. Also they seem to have the same warrantee (I'm sure the traditional manufacturers HATE this!)....but at these prices...who cares I could by 2 and keep one as a spare and STILL save money. Anyone seen these alternators.....any comments
Tom you're right but.
Tom: You are correct but if that $160 alternator fries your 400-500 amps worth of batteries, you may not think that it was quite the deal. I would also like to hear from anyone that may have tried ONE of these alternators.
Tom: You are correct but if that $160 alternator fries your 400-500 amps worth of batteries, you may not think that it was quite the deal. I would also like to hear from anyone that may have tried ONE of these alternators.
T
Tom
Sorry everyone. Someone emailed me and told me
that the catalog was a typo !! Damn....if it seems too good ...it probably is !!..... Too bad !! I am looking at the catalog right in front of me and plain as day it says $160. If I went in to a store, I wonder if they would honor it ;-)....I doubt it but its worth a shot....I know, I know...... but that would be wrong.........Oh well......... BTW I was informed that the Charlies Marine Alternators happen to be the Top Of The Line alternators (they typically run anywhere from $1000 to $2000. Whew!!)
that the catalog was a typo !! Damn....if it seems too good ...it probably is !!..... Too bad !! I am looking at the catalog right in front of me and plain as day it says $160. If I went in to a store, I wonder if they would honor it ;-)....I doubt it but its worth a shot....I know, I know...... but that would be wrong.........Oh well......... BTW I was informed that the Charlies Marine Alternators happen to be the Top Of The Line alternators (they typically run anywhere from $1000 to $2000. Whew!!)
- Status
- Not open for further replies.