Alternator Regulator

[jviss]

I think my InCharge smart charging regulator has failed. Is there an answer to the question "what regulator" other than Balmar? And, if not, which Balmar?

I have a C36 with a Universal M25, a 125A alternator, and a house bank that is two, group 24, 100AH deep cycle AGM batteries.

Thank you!
jv

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Same boat same engine only a 90A alternator and bigger house. I have a Balmar MC614. I like that it has a small motor switch that derates the amperage by 50%. This is so you can get a bit more power to the prop if necessary. Also the belt tamer can help keep belts from wearing out. The 3/8 single belt on the engine is rated at only 100A. Anymore you'll either start to go thru belts or water pump bearings (both fresh and raw).

Les

 

[jviss]

Same boat same engine only a 90A alternator and bigger house. I have a Balmar MC614. I like that it has a small motor switch that derates the amperage by 50%. This is so you can get a bit more power to the prop if necessary. Also the belt tamer can help keep belts from wearing out. The 3/8 single belt on the engine is rated at only 100A. Anymore you'll either start to go thru belts or water pump bearings (both fresh and raw).

Les

Thanks, Les! BTW, no pulley on the raw water pump on this, it's geared to the camshaft. I DID kill a fresh water pump once, I now carry a spare.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Sorry you are correct on the pump. Must have had a brain fart there. Do you have the -7 or -15?? I have a -15 as a spare and the -7 on the motor, would like to have only one type on the boat.

Also since you have the big alternator I assume you have the alternator bracket upgrade( hung off the exhaust manafold not the timing cover). The po of my boat hadn't done it and had a very big bill to weld up the timing cover, and my bilge is still oily.

Les

 

[LeslieTroyer]

To give you a numbers look at the small motor switch on the 614 I looked up how much hp your giving to the alternator. From a car racing site..

Amps x Volts = Watts
Watts / 745.7 (one HP) = Electrical HP Produced by the Alternator
HP x 15% Efficiency Loss = HP Loss
HP + HP Loss = Total HP Used


Example:
57A x 14.9V = 849.3 Watts
849.3 Watts / 745.7 = 1.14 HP
1.14 HP x 15% = 0.17 HP
1.14 + 0.17 = 1.31 HP Total​

So you have 125A x 14.9 / 745.7 x 1.14 = 2.8 hp or 14% of the rated HP the small motor switch would reduce this to 7%. I also think 14% loss at the alternator is way optimistic so actual loss is bigger

 

[jviss]

I don't know which water pump it is. I know it fits! I do have the new alternator bracket. On the small boat mode, I don't see the value in that. If I really need more power I can always turn off the key switch; the engine will still run, but the alternator won't produce anything, i.e., the regulator will be off. But, I never felt a lack of power.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Turning off the switch will also kill your gauges and idiot horn/lights.

 

[jviss]

Turning off the switch will also kill your gauges and idiot horn/lights.

Yes, I know. But I assume it would be a short term thing.

 

[Stu Jackson]

But I assume it would be a short term thing.

Not necessarily. I have never felt the need for more HP. I have OFTEN felt the need to reduce the load on the belt. This occurs after a night at anchor with the fridge running, house bank is down to less than 70%SOC and will take (battery acceptance) all the alternator can put out.

Alternator heat, Regulator Controls, Small Engine Mode

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4454.0.html

Small Engine Mode - discussion with link to the picture of the toggle switch: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4454.msg27149.html#msg27149

Small Engine Mode - the picture of the toggle switch http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4669.0.html

 

[Stu Jackson]

Alternator Regulators - The Differences between ARS-5 and MC-614 Units (scroll UP to see reply #5)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1103132

 

[jviss]

Thanks Stu. I guess the case you mention, and the need to reduce the load on the belt, shows that the weak link on many of these marine installations is an inadequate mechanical drive for the alternator. If everything else is sized properly, i.e., alternator, battery bank, regulator, it's a shame the alternator drive is not.

Balmar sells a serpentine belt upgrade kit, as does Electromax; others sell what appear to be the same as Electromax. They are all in the $450 - $500 neighborhood. I have always wanted this, perhaps if I get a new boat I will finally do it.

For the C36 I'm really just seeking a cost effective replacement for this blown regulator. I'm balking at the $300+ prices of the Balmars. Are there any less expensive alternatives?

 

[Stu Jackson]

If everything else is sized properly, i.e., alternator, battery bank, regulator, it's a shame the alternator drive is not.

jviss, I'm not sure this is "fair" to anyone involved with the building of our boats and the parts that came with them. In 1986, when they built my boat, I'm sure only a few envisioned the amount of electrical loads that would be placed on electrical systems. While refrigeration counts for 60% of a Year 2000 energy budget, lower lighting loads from LEDs as well as fancy navigation gear keeps an energy budget near to 100 ah per day. Some are more.

So, given that, all the information in my links provided are ways to MANAGE that load: biggest house bank for storage and longevity, good sized alternator to not burn up with a high load, and a regulator that runs the alternator that has flexible controls.

And this only applies to those of us who run our boats to anchorages and don't plug in regularly. If you plug in all the time, marina hop, or plug in even during the week, you don't need anything more than a 200 ah bank, leave the internally regulated stock alternator there and go have fun.

 

[jviss]

Stu, I don't mean to disparage the designers, I'm just saying that it's a shame the alternator drive is not scaled proportionately to the alternator, regulator, and house bank. This is an artifact of the engines lineage, i.e., a tractor engine, not a marine engine. Big battery charging loads were never part of the original design. Hence, the wimpy alternator mount that involves the water pump, and so on. Perfectly fine for topping off a starting battery with a 35A alternator.

I'm on a mooring, and I anchor when I cruise. I can't remember when I last plugged in at a dock. I have been running a 300AH house bank for several years, and except for the failed regulator, the weak link has always been the belt; or rather, the entire engine to alternator connection. I think the serpentine belt kits solve that problem.

That said, I wouldn't agree with "the biggest house bank." There's a correct size, given the alternator capacity, regulator, and so on. All things in proper proportion! If your house bank is too big you might never charge it adequately, and it will present a huge load to the alternator. But you know that.

I've added solar (theoretical max 240W, in practice much less). When I arrive at the boat on Friday night or Saturday morning, the batteries are fully charged. During the day, they supply more than what the 'fridge requires. And since they are almost never deeply discharged, there's never a huge load on the alternator.

 

[Maine Sail]

For the C36 I'm really just seeking a cost effective replacement for this blown regulator. I'm balking at the $300+ prices of the Balmars. Are there any less expensive alternatives?

There are less expensive regulators but none that compare to the Balmar's. You do get what you pay for...