Alternatives to firearms

[Didereaux]

12 ga Flare Pistol

For those who do not wish to risk losing their guns or for other reasons they still have a most effective and legal defense...the standard 12ga flare pistol.At close range these are lethal, as well as extremely harmful to fuel tanks etc. Keep at least two aboard with 10-12 cartridges.I am not certain of this, but I believe these are legal aboard boats in almost all countries. Simply keep them handy.

 

[r.w.landau]

Projectiles.

I have to admit have not yet read all the responses. I did read Didereaux and Patrick. Problem, Canada says no projectiles. Flare guns 12 and 25 gage, as are hand held ariel flares illegal to carry on boats.Please note, disgruntled Canadian, many Americans test my limits as I am sure Canadians test yours. Step back, take a breath, over veiw and continue making objective comments. Remember that when someone gets you to the point that you lose your rationallity, you have also lost your arguement.Please continue giving your well thought comments. Also realize that comments don't often change opinion, and giving your real name might get more respect from your comments. Patrick, I have to say reread your first post. It is as repulsive as your claims against a country. Remember that American get very tense when dealing with conflict. We don't have time. I think this is an American fault. We care about me, not us. If some one takes my boat apart my guess is they have a reason and if it insures that I am not guilty and makes other comfortable that I am not going to harm some one, the time and effort is worth it. It could be that your friends attitude caused the response he got.My problem comes when if I am alone, how do I protect myself from someone that is not obeying laws and moral judgement. I think this goes back to the original question.Still friends with the red maple leaf and the people of this forum,r.w.landau

 

[Rick A]

R.W. You are mistaken...

Flares or other signaling devices are mandatory in Canadian waters just like most other places. Flare pistols are legal and available for sale at most marine stores. Shipping is extra as they fall into the "dangerous good" catagory for transport and shipping. Using one as a weapon against another person would likely lead to charges against you as it would in most any jurisdiction.The real question here is how many boaters do you know personally that were assaulted, attacked, boarded, pirated, or whatever. Talk with your friends at the marina, favorite anchorages, where ever.... and I believe you will likely find it is not an issue. Chances of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning (off of the water) are much greater.As for Rob's response, if he had made that statement to an American about American's, he'd likely be lying in a pool of his own blood from multiple gunshot wounds and the hatchet buried up his a$$.

 

[Russell10327]

Give me Canadians any day.

I would spend a week with Canadians any day. They are polite, well behaved, and unlike Americans you don't have to worry if they are armed to the teeth! Nicest people around. (not that there aren't exceptions)We American have our own reputation, The Ugly American!. We always want every other country to do it our way, or we like to bring up the fact that it is bigger, better, cheaper, ... In the good old USA. Get off the Canadians back, go spend some time there and see for yourself, and just leave your guns behind.I also like Texas. Beautiful country side, wide open plains, good steaks, and a warm climate. Yup I like everything about Texas, well except for the Texans, you can keep them.

 

[r.w.landau]

George,

I did read the responses. Yes, sometimes they are pretty rough. My point is, sometimes you let the response speak for itself. I hear much advice on this forum. I can tell when a new person is giving advice. Many times I want to rebut and tell that person that it was negative advise. In fact I have responded to some post to tell them that their advice was wrong and dangerous.I refrain often because I know that the advice was so far off that no one would consider it. Most of the time I respond when I feel that bad advice is given or someone is stretching it to far.I was simply telling Disgruntled Canadian step back, what ever you respond will not be taken by that kind of attitude. I also wanted him /her to know that posting a real name has value and over a period of time will show that their opinion and knowledge will be more valued should the strength of their advice be strong over a period of time. For instance, Phil Herring's posts I always read. Fred Ficarra, Rick Dion, Don Guillette, Peggy Hall, ( I have edited to add Don Evans a Canadian that KNOWS boats. He used to respond regularly. I also would like to add Justin Andreas, whom use to represent this forum,another quality advisor)These people have solid advice and their advice means something. These people care if the advice they give is solid and clarify if they are not sure. There are others that guess at advice and probably do more harm than good.Sorry for running off..r.w.landau

 

[r.w.landau]

Rick A

You got me, Explain, The info I gave about projectiles was given to me in a Power Squadron Class. They said that Flares are required, but projectiles were illegal.Believe me, I would love to hear that my flare gun or hand helds are legal just for th purpose of alternative protection.r.w.landau

 

[Rick A]

R.W,

Here's a link for the Canadian Small Vessel Regulation that outline all requirements for small boats in Canadian Waters. Shedule III Sec. 18 onwards gives descriptions regarding pyrotechnical devices.http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/GENERAL/c/csa/regulations/070/csa076/csa76.html#0.2.VF5B4I.Z2BFBE.2FFTID.C3Stevestons Marine Supply lists them in thier on-line catalogue. They are a Canadian based marine supply store. http://www.stevestonmarine.com

 

[r.w.landau]

Rick A

Thanks,The rules say pyrotechnic devices Type A,B,or C are legal. The 12 Gage flare falls into the type B Thanks , I am happy and now know that even the Power Squadron doesn't always get it right.r.w.landau

 

[Rick Webb]

From a Texan

Firearms aboard a boat should not only be authorized but be required. If you’re a victim of a crime and you do not shoot the perp you should be cited for a misdemeanor. Kill the bastard and you get a medal. For those of you who do not like Texans or Texas you can go to hell or New Jersey (same thing) we don't want any more of you down here anyway.Now that I have that off my chest I wonder how many of those you want to carry a weapon on board have drawn down on a person and shot. It is not an easy thing to do. I thought I was prepared but it is something that still haunts me. Do not misunderstand me I am not remorseful I would do it again perhaps even quicker. Just wanted it said.Don't Mess With Texas or Texans

 

[r.w.landau]

Perry, Sounds like a story...

Want to tell us the whole thing?r.w.landau

 

[Franklin]

I agree

and no, I'm not a true Texan. I've lived all over the states and just consider myself an american. Anyway, I think that if it was a requirement that all boats carry a weapon, then less would be willing to try to mess with a boater. Sure, as one poster said, not many have been messed with, but what percentage of boaters have actually done cruising alone (one boat on the course). Most only do day sailing, if any sailing at all. We got boats in our marina that haven't moved in 4 years. Anyway...I would be more interested in what percentage of cruisers have had a conflict. Once again, I'm sure it's low but that's not the point. The point is, if it does happen to you, you don't want to find yourself on your knees begging for them to spare your life.

 

[Tom S]

Doberman or Rotweiller on deck

nm

 

[Tom S]

In all seriousness (though a dog IS good)

and a great alarm & deterent watching the boat while you are away. Is a speargun legal everywhere? I thought I heard they have to be declared and confiscated in some countries. To be returned when you leave. (What a hassle)Is that true?

 

[Rick Webb]

Whether a Flare Gun is a Weapon or Not

If boarded by the Coast Guard or other Law Enforcement folks and asked about weapons aboard mention the flare gun. It is viewed as a weapon by many of them.

 

[David W]

Thank you Mr. Landau

I appreciate your comments. I freely admit I was hot under the collar when I wrote that. With the benefit of time, I would not have said it differently. Yes Canadians annoy me, and my country is sometimes bassackwards but to have someone else tell me that using gross generalizations is akin to someone telling me my brother is a dope after having met him once in a grocery store line.'nuff said from me...Lets get back to sailing OK?David

 

[Big Dan T]

My two cents

As an expatriated American I can appreciate the desire to arm your boats to the teeth. Guns are fun as long as they are pointed away from you. I like boats, and I like guns. But living on foreign soil I am limited to enjoying boats without guns! Like the Cayman Islands many nations view anything that shoots a projectile as being a weapon. No exceptions. Even slingshots are illegal here, the same goes for flare guns, bb guns, spear guns, potato guns, pea shooters, if it flings something it is illegal. Texans would feel outa place, but heck, the beer is cold and the girls are sweet!

 

[patrick]

No simple answer to Canada

I called (1-800-461-9999) and asked about this topic. The call was answered by a very friendly and courteous fellow. He could not answer the question clearly except to say that he had a list but could not give it to me. See the link for the actual rules re: weapons and firearms. It is a complicated issue and supposedly has to do with how the item in question is to be used. A flare gun is a flare gun until you point it at someone and then it becomes a weapon and you become a potential criminal. He thought a spear gun used for diving would be allowed if it were locked away from the spears and of course declared at the border. Just to clarify, I generally like the Canadian people. I look at Canada from my home. I have lots of friends there and we agree on most issues I have brought up here. I have assisted Canadian boaters and it is not true that I do not give a sh** about them - I do. It is the corrupt and perverted government and its in your face policies that I have a problem with. I always keep those thoughts to myself when I am there and would advise others to do the same.Speech is NOT free there and you can be charged if you offend someone or some classes of people. I am not surprised that Les likes it there. The police and customs officers are good folks but they are limited in helping you and the laws are different there. Like anywhere, some are friendly and helpful and some are sullen and disagreeable. Do not cross them or you will regret it. Leave your Hopps solvnet and gun magazines home and do not even mention them.I do not like it that they have legalized and give away drugs at a location which is less than an hours drive from my home. It corrupts the community here. High school kids were recently arrested here for smuggling drugs (on a school bus) which are legal 5 minutes away. It is and has been very destructive to this community.If you take your boat there and have kids or passengers, make sure they do not partake of these things and "forget" that they have them when you return here. It is not just a personal opinion of mine, the US customs will take your boat.The crazy nonsensical rules about weapons just illustrate some of the political differences between our countries and like it or not, that is a consideration when you cross a border. Even if you disagree with me on issues, ultimately, rules are a result of politics. If I wanted to defend myself, threaten someone, or invade the country, I would not take a potato gun. I consider such a rule to be a simple screw you to the US as are others.I did not bring up the great state of Texas, but I love everything about it except for the liberals there.Just to clarify, there are lots of problems with the government here too. Just read my story about Revak. He went to school at WWU and may be back there now. Do you know him, Les? He was majoring in truck bombs and assault weapons. I do not know what the department is where those subjects are taught. He is probably now majoring in polysci so he can become a politician here.As to your comments, R.W. I do not know what you are saying but we are probably more alike than you think. I would recommend that every sailor should go to BC at least once. It is an experience you won't soon forget.

 

[David W]

Got on his horse...

that's funny...

 

[David W]

Rob, on a different note

did you sell your Beneteau yet?

 

[RobLeimgardt]

Beneteau

David, No, but not really sure if I am going to either. Seems like the more time I spend with her, the more I fall in love with her. Kind of like Vancouver Island!!I forget to what capacity you and I had discussed my vessel, and what stage I was at??Refresh me?