Is the diesel fuel bought at a marina fuel dock the same as the diesel sold at a gas station? ie., is it OK to use gas station diesel in a Yanmar 3GM30? thank you, Bob Pilgrim
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Bob Howie
"Gas" Station Diesel
Yep...diesel is pretty much diesel. If you don't already, think about treating your fuel with algaecide and a Cetane enhancer. Stuff comes in self-measuring containers.
Yep...diesel is pretty much diesel. If you don't already, think about treating your fuel with algaecide and a Cetane enhancer. Stuff comes in self-measuring containers.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
I have a question about diesel...
As previously mentioned, I have a job...in the advertising sales department of a national trucking industry publication. 18 wheelers all run on diesel of course...and we carry ads for a LOT of diesel additive products--from major oil companies, not concoctions somebody dreamed up-- that are supposed to do everything from increase fuel efficiency to clean the engines, to reduce emissions to prevent ""glop" in fuel tanks...all issues that are just as common to marine diesel engines as truck engines. What application, if any, do any of these products have in MARINE diesel engines? Seems to me that a diesel engine is a diesel engine, yet I never see any of these types of products advertised in the boating magazines... Why?
As previously mentioned, I have a job...in the advertising sales department of a national trucking industry publication. 18 wheelers all run on diesel of course...and we carry ads for a LOT of diesel additive products--from major oil companies, not concoctions somebody dreamed up-- that are supposed to do everything from increase fuel efficiency to clean the engines, to reduce emissions to prevent ""glop" in fuel tanks...all issues that are just as common to marine diesel engines as truck engines. What application, if any, do any of these products have in MARINE diesel engines? Seems to me that a diesel engine is a diesel engine, yet I never see any of these types of products advertised in the boating magazines... Why?
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Buck Harrison
Peggy,
The diesel additive manufactures DO advertise at many marinas (w/ flyers).... apparently they don't feel that it is cost effective to advertise in the mags... Yanmar (thru their service reps, like your friends at Nortons), suggest the addition of... cetane booster, water dispersant, lubricity inhancer and biocide. Next time you see Norton's service manager, pick his brain.....
The diesel additive manufactures DO advertise at many marinas (w/ flyers).... apparently they don't feel that it is cost effective to advertise in the mags... Yanmar (thru their service reps, like your friends at Nortons), suggest the addition of... cetane booster, water dispersant, lubricity inhancer and biocide. Next time you see Norton's service manager, pick his brain.....
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Bob Howie
Buck's Right
By comparison, sailboats use very little diesel fuel in the course of a season providing the wind is blowing. Power diesels use, obviously, a lot more, but not as much as Big Rigs. However, it appears to me that there is much known in boating circles about benefits of biocides and cetane enhancers along with water dispersants and other additivies. I use maybe 50 gallons of diesel fuel a year, use the additives which are commonly available at most boating supply stores -- one generally seems as good as another -- and change my oil and filters regularly. You're right, too, Peggie, in your approximation of diesel engines being diesel engines. They are all about the same, except in size and power, of course, and they all run on the same principles and diesel fuel is essentially diesel fuel the world over, the quality, of which, varies. Outside the U.S., and at most marinas in Mexico and Caribbean, diesel is delivered in translucent barrels a lof of the time. It's a good idea to let the barrels sit for a spell before pumping them right into your tanks! You'd be surprised how much water collects in the bottom. In the Bahamas, we pump fuel through a stand-alone set of filters just to be on the same side.
By comparison, sailboats use very little diesel fuel in the course of a season providing the wind is blowing. Power diesels use, obviously, a lot more, but not as much as Big Rigs. However, it appears to me that there is much known in boating circles about benefits of biocides and cetane enhancers along with water dispersants and other additivies. I use maybe 50 gallons of diesel fuel a year, use the additives which are commonly available at most boating supply stores -- one generally seems as good as another -- and change my oil and filters regularly. You're right, too, Peggie, in your approximation of diesel engines being diesel engines. They are all about the same, except in size and power, of course, and they all run on the same principles and diesel fuel is essentially diesel fuel the world over, the quality, of which, varies. Outside the U.S., and at most marinas in Mexico and Caribbean, diesel is delivered in translucent barrels a lof of the time. It's a good idea to let the barrels sit for a spell before pumping them right into your tanks! You'd be surprised how much water collects in the bottom. In the Bahamas, we pump fuel through a stand-alone set of filters just to be on the same side.
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Bob Howie
A question, Peggie...
Which natl trucking industry publication do you sell for? If you don't mind my asking.
Which natl trucking industry publication do you sell for? If you don't mind my asking.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
It's called "The Trucker"...
It's the only national trucking industry newspaper, published bi-weekly...directed at drivers and owner/operators. Owned by Landmark Communications, which owns a whole bunch of niche pubs, radio and tv stations...their best known property is the Weather Channel. I was a media rep for national magazines for nearly 20 years, overlapping the first 5 years that my company was only a "little business on the side." So it's hardly a new career, just a return to the old one after 15 years. Getting used to working for somebody else again is the only hard part!
It's the only national trucking industry newspaper, published bi-weekly...directed at drivers and owner/operators. Owned by Landmark Communications, which owns a whole bunch of niche pubs, radio and tv stations...their best known property is the Weather Channel. I was a media rep for national magazines for nearly 20 years, overlapping the first 5 years that my company was only a "little business on the side." So it's hardly a new career, just a return to the old one after 15 years. Getting used to working for somebody else again is the only hard part!
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Bob Howie
Reason I asked...
Close friend is main shooter for American Trucking Magazine...hence, my query. When not flying, I run a media and public relations biz out of Houston and a number of trade-specific magazines are on my roster. I can relate to the "working for someone else" feeling. I keep a healthy bevy of "self-employed" work on the side. One of these days, I'll toss the wings on the table -- when I figure I'm too old to put up with dark, icy, snowy, low approaches in bad viz in the middle of a Nor'easter winter -- and then just do the media stuff...enough to keep the slip rent paid!
Close friend is main shooter for American Trucking Magazine...hence, my query. When not flying, I run a media and public relations biz out of Houston and a number of trade-specific magazines are on my roster. I can relate to the "working for someone else" feeling. I keep a healthy bevy of "self-employed" work on the side. One of these days, I'll toss the wings on the table -- when I figure I'm too old to put up with dark, icy, snowy, low approaches in bad viz in the middle of a Nor'easter winter -- and then just do the media stuff...enough to keep the slip rent paid!
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Ray Bowles
Dyed diesel vs. station bought diesel.
In Washington State we buy diesel for farm use that has had a red dye installed. This diesel is sold without road use tax applied and is about 50 cents a gallon cheaper. The reason for the dye is so the State Patrol can inspect large truck fuel tanks and be sure the trucker is using fuel that has been taxed. I'm not sure whether boat use fuel is taxed of not? Ray S/V Speedy
In Washington State we buy diesel for farm use that has had a red dye installed. This diesel is sold without road use tax applied and is about 50 cents a gallon cheaper. The reason for the dye is so the State Patrol can inspect large truck fuel tanks and be sure the trucker is using fuel that has been taxed. I'm not sure whether boat use fuel is taxed of not? Ray S/V Speedy
May be the same but may not!
Red diesel may or may not be the same product. The red dye is to determine if it is taxed or not (just as Ray and other mentioned). Part of the purpose of the dye is also to indicate that the fuel is approved for over-the-road use and has a lower sulphur content. See the link to a site that has some of this explained. http://www.vtt.fi/virtual/amf/emissions.pdf
Red diesel may or may not be the same product. The red dye is to determine if it is taxed or not (just as Ray and other mentioned). Part of the purpose of the dye is also to indicate that the fuel is approved for over-the-road use and has a lower sulphur content. See the link to a site that has some of this explained. http://www.vtt.fi/virtual/amf/emissions.pdf
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Joe Baker
No. 1 and No.2
There is a slightly less powerful, easier flowing diesel for the really cold months. They talk about No. 2 gelling somewhere below minus 20 degrees. No problem for boaters I guess. As for additives, I am 52 years old and have used a lot of diesel and gas without ever adding anything except oil in a 2 cycle. There have been no known related problems. There was the 25 year old Honda that had miscellaneous crud partially clogging the fuel line but it still ran! The gas was at least ten years old. Sales people will tell you anything to make a buck. It is possible to get contaminated fuel but additives will not prevent or fix the problem!!!!
There is a slightly less powerful, easier flowing diesel for the really cold months. They talk about No. 2 gelling somewhere below minus 20 degrees. No problem for boaters I guess. As for additives, I am 52 years old and have used a lot of diesel and gas without ever adding anything except oil in a 2 cycle. There have been no known related problems. There was the 25 year old Honda that had miscellaneous crud partially clogging the fuel line but it still ran! The gas was at least ten years old. Sales people will tell you anything to make a buck. It is possible to get contaminated fuel but additives will not prevent or fix the problem!!!!
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Bob Howie
I think I'll have to disagree, Joe
With all due respect, I think biocides in fuel is a good idea and I think certain additives do, in fact, help keep fuel lines clean. Having crud in fuel lines on land-based vehicles is one thing; clogging fuel lines and injectors out on the water is something that should be avoided, at least, in my opinion. I think Joe is right that there are a lot of products out there that are pitched just for the buck and one should make an informed decision before buying them and just pouring any ol' thing in the tank. But, it's pretty much proven that certain biologicals can and do live in diesel/jet fuel and use of well-known biocides is at least a prudent idea. As is changing your filters on a regular basis. Joe is right, though, that there really is nothing out there that can "cure" grossly contaminated fuel and he's also right in that additives might not be needed if one is burning large amounts of fuel so that there's a constant change of fuel in the tanks. But, burning copious amounts of fuel is just not something my sailboat does!!
With all due respect, I think biocides in fuel is a good idea and I think certain additives do, in fact, help keep fuel lines clean. Having crud in fuel lines on land-based vehicles is one thing; clogging fuel lines and injectors out on the water is something that should be avoided, at least, in my opinion. I think Joe is right that there are a lot of products out there that are pitched just for the buck and one should make an informed decision before buying them and just pouring any ol' thing in the tank. But, it's pretty much proven that certain biologicals can and do live in diesel/jet fuel and use of well-known biocides is at least a prudent idea. As is changing your filters on a regular basis. Joe is right, though, that there really is nothing out there that can "cure" grossly contaminated fuel and he's also right in that additives might not be needed if one is burning large amounts of fuel so that there's a constant change of fuel in the tanks. But, burning copious amounts of fuel is just not something my sailboat does!!
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Joe Baker
Corrected!!
I will heartily agree that there is more biological growth in warmer climates and that biocides are a necessary evil, but here in northern Minnesota I have yet to see a problem. Bob, thanks for the correction and the credit where due!!
I will heartily agree that there is more biological growth in warmer climates and that biocides are a necessary evil, but here in northern Minnesota I have yet to see a problem. Bob, thanks for the correction and the credit where due!!
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Dakota Jim Russell
Dyed Deisel Works
In SD we buy the road tax free dyed deisel. We still have to pay sales tax on the deisel, but not the road tax and hence saves quite a bit. Been doing it for more than 10 years with no problem. Do add the biocide periodically, especially if you use little fuel over a long period of time.
In SD we buy the road tax free dyed deisel. We still have to pay sales tax on the deisel, but not the road tax and hence saves quite a bit. Been doing it for more than 10 years with no problem. Do add the biocide periodically, especially if you use little fuel over a long period of time.
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