Alcohol and Sailboats

[Stu Jackson]

Crooked DA

Today's 'lectronic Latitude http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2009-05-18&dayid=274#Story2

 

[lingarner]

Re: Crooked DA

Can they do anything to you if you've had too much, and your anchored out?

 

[tsmwebb]

Today's 'lectronic Latitude http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2009-05-18&dayid=274#Story2

Grim stuff. I presume the DA was hoping to get a plea agreement that would sweep the whole thing under the rug. Here's hoping the Dinius wins a huge civil rights case and is made whole and that the perps go down.

--Tom.

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

Hermit, in answer to you question (reply #40)

the advice to refuse to take FSTs and to blow is probably based on the theory that you're better off limiting the evidence the officer can collect to use against you, and accepting the likely charges and penalties for refusing FSTs and Intoxilyzer blow, and the administrative driver's license suspension discussed above. Who knows, you might avoid the DUII conviction. Then again, you might not. Keep in mind that police are trained specifically for this senario. So he's begun collecting information upon which to determine your sobriety or intoxication from the moment he observed your vehicle. Remember that among the symptoms of intoxication are reduced inhibition, judgment and physical coordination and balance. He's taking note of your face (flushed?) and eyes, your speech, your ability to exit your vehicle, stand and walk, your emotional self-control, your coordination, including your ability to take out your wallet, remove your license, veh. registration, proof of insurance, your breath and everything you say. Even if you refuse all tests and manage to remain calm and polite, the officer is seeing things he can based his opinion and testimony on. All in all, in a close case, it might make a difference. But you have to keep in mind that you might be adding your troubles with the refusal charges and administrative suspension (Ore: 90 days if you blow, 1 year if you refuse) and still get convicted. So I guess it depends on how much you want to gamble, and how much you're willing to pay for the chance. It must be added that the flip side is that if you blow reasonably under 0.08%BAC and the other evidence is not strong, the prosecutor might kick it out. Again, might, not a sure thing. I was never willing to give blanket advice on that issue for those reasons. I wanted to know more of the specifics, keeping in mind that a person undergoing a DUII investigation may not have the best insight to their own condition.
As for getting the person out of jail the next day, locally, there is not enough room to keep DUII suspects any longer than needed to complete the investigation and get someone (friend or family) to pick them up and take them home. So generally, that is a non-issue.
I hope this helps clarify it for you.
But to go back to Bad O's statement, its better, and far cheaper, to simply not drink and drive or boat.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

Jibs138, the word you need is "operating." If you are operating, that is to say driving, a boat (or car) while intoxicated, you may be criminally liable. If you are on the hook, you're not "operating" the boat. This is why intoxicated passengers in cars don't get charged with DUII - they're not operating the vehicle.
Why are sailboats subject to the BUII laws? How would you draw the line? A power boat, but only if its going at least 20 mph? What about if its only going 15mph. By the way, just how much kinetic energy does your several thousand pound boat have at 6mph? Enough to damage another boat, knock someone in the water or possibly crush them against a dock? One of the problems in law is drawing lines between permitted and unlawful behavior that makes sense in the real world. Its easier, and fairer, to apply the prohibition to all boats that to try and justify excluding some from the law's coverage.
I know a lot of people on this site enjoy alcoholic beverages. Sometimes I do too. The reality of drinking laws is that they're not about denying people the right to enjoy themselves, they're about trying to make sure everyone can go home, alive. I hope that I've helped your understanding without getting too preachy. May you live long, prosper, and drink responsibly.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Tim R.]

Operating could include running the engine to charge batteries though.

 

[Rick Webb]

Operating?

Are the stories of the guy who comes out of the bar puts his key in the ignition to listen to the radio and then takes a nap only to be awoke and subsequently charged with DUI a myth? Where is the line, keys still in pocket, asleep in the back seat?

I guess my basis for not blowing in the tube come from a DUI being a career ender in the military. It is what all of the JAGs tell you as well and I would bet any civilian attorney. You can lose your security clearance and not even be able to do your job. We tell the kids all the time not to drink and drive take a wingman who does not drink even give out cards to them with the Commanders and First Shirts phone number and tell them call us we'll come and get you with no repercussion. I would not try it every week though. It is not totally an altruistic exercise, DUIs are a metric that is measured and it is a lot of work dealing with personnel wise, a conviction of "Failure to Drive in a Single Lane" is not an issue even if you no longer have a driver’s license.

 

[Ron20324]

Operating could include running the engine to charge batteries though.

Inasmuch as laws say a vessel is underway unless anchored or secured to a non-moving fixture (dock), I would extend that to say if you're not underway, then The Man has no claim on you?

 

[Jenni]

How would a sobriety test work on a boat. Sea sickness could look alot like your bombed. Also I have found that after I have been on the boat for a day or so it takes a bit to get your land legs back and you tend to sway slightly on dry land.

 

[Banooma]

Sailing is my drug

Not trying to a pollyanna, but it's really not a matter of the law or dehydration or boredom for me. I love cocktails at the end of any sailing day, but I usually get such a rush from sailing that I don't ever think to add any enhancers.

 

[Tim R.]

Are the stories of the guy who comes out of the bar puts his key in the ignition to listen to the radio and then takes a nap only to be awoke and subsequently charged with DUI a myth? Where is the line, keys still in pocket, asleep in the back seat?

I know of a guy who was charged with DUI while sitting in a running car drunk a few years ago here in Portland. He stated he started the car to stay warm but was not planning on driving. I believe he beat the charge but it was not easy.

 

[RECESS]

I drink when I know the boat is not going to move. If you have someone run into you and you blow a hair over the limit, it is all your fault and your insurance is not going to cover any damages. I will enjoy a few when on someone else's boat and they are handling the tiller.

 

[BobM]

Hmmm...I wonder if the invention of "tacking" was an accident brought about by BUI?

 

[PCP777]

Hmmm...I wonder if the invention of "tacking" was an accident brought about by BUI?

Not sure BUI was enforced back then....

 

[Rick Webb]

Here is Another Question

Are the rules different on private property? Say a guy is sleeping one off in his car in a WalMart parking lot with the key in and engine running. How does this apply to a motor home?

 

[Joe Snuffy]

At one time the grog issued to the British Navy consisted of a pint of pure rum, mixed with some sugar and lime. Those guys stayed messed up all day long.

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

Operating could include running the engine to charge batteries though.

Quite possibly. Certainly in a car you'd be at risk, I am aware of DUII convictions on similar facts in the case law.

Are the rules different on private property? Say a guy is sleeping one off in his car in a WalMart parking lot with the key in and engine running. How does this apply to a motor home?

Oregon uses the language " . . . on a public highway or premises open to the public." A Walmart parking lot is clearly premises open to the public. Compare that to a fenced and gated enclosure such as an impound lot, clearly meant to keep the general public from entering and driving on the premises. Defendant's conviction over turned on appeal on the basis that the impound lot was not premises open to the public. As for running the engine of an RV in a Walmart lot while intoxicated, you're taking a risk. Ask local counsel.

How would a sobriety test work on a boat

Bad O could give you a more extensive list of FSTs, but I think they could use the Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus, the finger count, backwards alphabet, backward count (for instance, 103 to 89). I would be skeptical about the finger to nose, although I suppose it might be done sitting (I think its intended as a divided attention task where one of test criteria is the subject's balance or swaying). Certainly observations of appearance and behavior as discussed above. If shore is close, they might ask subject to accompany them to shore. Keep in mind, the officer is trying to determine if there is is probable cause to believe the person is under the influence.

Finally, Recess, I cannot agree with your blanket assertion that civil liabilty will attach if you're over 0.08%BAC. Its too fact dependent. The fact of intoxication would be merely one fact among many. Key is whether it contributed to causing the accident. If you were legally intoxicated, driving at or below the speed limit, in your lane, under control, and someone blew through a stop sign and T-boned, you, I doubt you would be civilly liable for the accident. You would, however, probably face criminal driving charges for DUII.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Rick Webb]

Reminds Me of a Joke

The first of the last few guys in a bar stumbles out, staggers over to his car taking time to lean against a lamp post along the way, fumbles in his pocket for his keys drops them three times finally manages to get them into the lock, goes back to the end of the car leans over the fender like he is about to hurl, then finally slides back into the front seat after much effort gets the car started, backs out of the parking spot its two trash cans, turns on his left blinker pulls out onto the street turning right and is immediately pulled over by the cops. Officer Barney is surprised when Pat rolls down the window and Barney smells coffee on his breath and not whiskey. "How much have you had to drink tonight Sir" Barney asks. "Why, nothing at all tonight officer is there a problem?" Pat asks looking to make sure his buddies are well away from the scene. Barney asks him to step out of the car and perform a field sobriety test and Barney is shocked that he appears to be sober as a judge. He asks Pat about his great effort to get to and then into the car while appearing to be not at all intoxicated. Pat Replies "Oh, it is like this officer tonight it was my turn to be the designated drunk".

 

[PCP777]

The first of the last few guys in a bar stumbles out, staggers over to his car taking time to lean against a lamp post along the way, fumbles in his pocket for his keys drops them three times finally manages to get them into the lock, goes back to the end of the car leans over the fender like he is about to hurl, then finally slides back into the front seat after much effort gets the car started, backs out of the parking spot its two trash cans, turns on his left blinker pulls out onto the street turning right and is immediately pulled over by the cops. Officer Barney is surprised when Pat rolls down the window and Barney smells coffee on his breath and not whiskey. "How much have you had to drink tonight Sir" Barney asks. "Why, nothing at all tonight officer is there a problem?" Pat asks looking to make sure his buddies are well away from the scene. Barney asks him to step out of the car and perform a field sobriety test and Barney is shocked that he appears to be sober as a judge. He asks Pat about his great effort to get to and then into the car while appearing to be not at all intoxicated. Pat Replies "Oh, it is like this officer tonight it was my turn to be the designated drunk".

I have a joke too but it's probably a bit salty for this forum, Classic Dice Clay stuff.

 

[Alex]

Alcohol and maintinence

I have been known to sink more than a few tinnies while on the dock working on my boat. But I do strictly follow my own three rules...
1) Alcohol in any quantity allowed (and encouraged) when using sponges, rags, brushes, buckets, and hoses.
2) Alcohol in very limited quantity allowed when doing light mechanical projects that involve equipment that is already installed properly.
3) Alcohol absolutely forbidden when doing anything that invoves the drilling of holes, the cutting of expensive materials that are in limited supply or the planning and installation of anything at all.