AIS pros and cons

[Stu Jackson]

C'mon guys, centerline just explained a very good use of the tools. Maybe there was a high bluff at the inside of the bend in the river.

As far as tools, I think the point made about newbs using it is well taken. So many of the AIS posts I read on other forums include: "So I call them up on the VHF to confirm what they're doing." What utter hogwash! That's what the AIS is telling you. Many professional skippers reply to those statements with: "I wish you guys would stop calling us on the VHJF. We see you, your AIS tells you what we're doing, and the very LAST thing we want to do is to hit your little boat. Please stop calling. Thanks."

That's the reality.

Many of those jerks don't know how to use their VHFs either. They're still doing radio checks on CH 16. Around here the CG gets on the radio and tells 'em to stop it. Jerks.

Wanna know how I really feel?

 

[Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi]

Capta: My mast was down in a cradle. My 356 is too tall with the mast up to go through the Tenn-Tom. I have a mast mounted radar, but it wouldn't have seen around those bends on the Tenn-Tom. I had to temporary mount it on my forward support. It was about 12 feet above the water at that location.

I've been down the Tenn-Tom on a Cabo Rico 38 with the mast up and a mast mounted radar. It was before AIS and we couldn't see around the bends with it either. I've flown over,the St. Lawrence seaway and it's a lot bigger and wider than the Tenn-Tom and interior river system the Great Loopers have to deal with. They also have to deal with fog and it's either radar or stop.

 

[mitiempo]

AIS is required on commercial vessels if their gross tonnage is over 300 and on all commercial passenger ships regardless of size. Many smaller commercial ships do not need AIS.

 

[Allan12210]

Many of those jerks don't know how to use their VHFs either. They're still doing radio checks on CH 16. Around here the CG gets on the radio and tells 'em to stop it. Jerks.

I hear em too. Unfortunately they (the bozos) get what they want when the CG responds. Me, I observe radio silence.

 

[capta]

Capta: My mast was down in a cradle. My 356 is too tall with the mast up to go through the Tenn-Tom. I have a mast mounted radar, but it wouldn't have seen around those bends on the Tenn-Tom. I had to temporary mount it on my forward support. It was about 12 feet above the water at that location.

I've been down the Tenn-Tom on a Cabo Rico 38 with the mast up and a mast mounted radar. It was before AIS and we couldn't see around the bends with it either. I've flown over,the St. Lawrence seaway and it's a lot bigger and wider than the Tenn-Tom and interior river system the Great Loopers have to deal with. They also have to deal with fog and it's either radar or stop.

Fair enough.

 

[gettinthere]

Perhaps if your radar had been up on the mast instead of on a 10 foot pole on the stern, you would have been able to 'see around the bend'.

BS
There are bridges on the tentom waterway. When I ran the system, my mast was on a truck. The only other option would be laying it down on deck like all the other sailboats, which would also render it useless. And further, if you had ang knowledge of this, you would know there are plenty of bluffs with trees on top totalling over 100' high. Good luck seeing around corners with your radar in that situation.

On the open ocean at night, I have had plenty of tow captains thank me for checking in with them. They communicated their course changes so we could stay clear. Does your radar project course changes ahead of time? I'd like one of those

 

[Captn TJ]

Perhaps if your radar had been up on the mast instead of on a 10 foot pole on the stern, you would have been able to 'see around the bend'.

Pullezze! Apparently you haven't navigated down narrow serpentine rivers filled with ship traffic. If you're on the St.. Clair River south of Lake Huron your radar will have to be on a 200' high pole and even then you won't see the traffic that is directly behind a target shadow like a power plant. I'm proud to admit that I use all of the technology available to me and wouldn't diss someone who use it for safer travel.

 

[capta]

BS
There are bridges on the tentom waterway. When I ran the system, my mast was on a truck. The only other option would be laying it down on deck like all the other sailboats, which would also render it useless. And further, if you had ang knowledge of this, you would know there are plenty of bluffs with trees on top totalling over 100' high. Good luck seeing around corners with your radar in that situation.

On the open ocean at night, I have had plenty of tow captains thank me for checking in with them. They communicated their course changes so we could stay clear. Does your radar project course changes ahead of time? I'd like one of those

I aready acknowledged that on the TenTom it was a fair enough statement, so you are beating a dead horse on that one. Good on you.
As for towing on the open ocean, as a towboat operator with a bit towing experience, I have found I have rarely had to make course changes at the exact moment when I am approaching a sailboat or other traffic. As a matter of fact, I would not make any course changes that were not dictated by the ColRregs, and therefore expected, until I was well clear of any other traffic.
All these "plenty of tow captains" you are chatting with must be very interesting people.
No, my radar does not project course changes ahead of time, but my knowledge of the ColRegs certainly should allow me to anticipate them, if needed. Otherwise, maintaining course and speed is the accepted thing to do I believe, and I certainly don't need AIS to do that.
You are welcome to use your AIS; I never said differently. However, when you throw out a BS, and then back it up with all these "plenty of tow captains" who change course right when you are meeting them in the open ocean, well one has to wonder a bit.

 

[gettinthere]

So you never change course? Hmmm

 

[capta]

So you never change course? Hmmm

Answered already. Another dead horse. What exactly have you got against horses?

 

[gettinthere]

My initial response to your bs was typed while you were in the process of backpeddling your bs. Then you tried to twist my other comment about tows changing course. slither away

 

[Ken Cross]

Free app

I happen to use the "Ship Finder" app on my Iphone. it works great and cheap. There is even a free version. If you are in cell coverage and want to receive only, give it a try. Once again it won't cur stupid, but it can warn you of other traffic.

Ken

 

[chuckwayne]

I'll second Jerry's comments. We've had a class B Ais transponder on Escape for 3 years now and it's proven very useful - doesn't replace radar - and I'm sorry Capta, but my mast mounted radar can't see around islands and no one uses horn signals. I've been hailed by large ships and pleasure yachts to clarify intentions, and in many ways it's better than MARPA on my radar. In addition, in a large harbor like Portland (ME) where fog is common, it's much more precise than radar and easier to read. We've even been hailed by a lighthouse - the keepers wanted to check on visibility conditions at water level.

Yes, Woodster, the transponder is a separate unit with it's own transmitter, receiver, and GPS. It's best to use a separate antenna with it, too.

 

[uncledom]

Make that thrice! :dance::dance::dance: Just because it's on your AIS doesn't mean you have to call the ship up on the VHF, either. Doh! That's why the AIS shows you the darned CPA. Wait, they don't know what CPA means. NOW I get it.

It's that the "computed point of aauugh!"? :0

 

[uncledom]

If you keep your vhf's in scan mode and include channel 13 you would know why there is no more horns. All the tows talk to each other non stop on channel 13 when there is a passing or crossing situation and decide verbally whether it will be a " one whistle" or "two whistle" pass. BTW they also see each other on AIS to communicate because they call three turns before they meet and there is no way you can radar around some of the bluffs on the Hudson River. They also know each others schedule but I'm pretty sure they are using "all the tools in their tool box", cause that's what most reasonable people do. I like AIS because it's easier than using binocs to get a vessle's name to report to the CG after they wake you to death and or cause damage.

 

[woodster]

I'll second Jerry's comments. We've had a class B Ais transponder on Escape for 3 years now and it's proven very useful - doesn't replace radar - and I'm sorry Capta, but my mast mounted radar can't see around islands and no one uses horn signals. I've been hailed by large ships and pleasure yachts to clarify intentions, and in many ways it's better than MARPA on my radar. In addition, in a large harbor like Portland (ME) where fog is common, it's much more precise than radar and easier to read. We've even been hailed by a lighthouse - the keepers wanted to check on visibility conditions at water level.

Yes, Woodster, the transponder is a separate unit with it's own transmitter, receiver, and GPS. It's best to use a separate antenna with it, too.

so based on this information from the sh manual i don't really need the transponder


AIS / AIS SART target display: MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG
The MATRIX AIS/GPS displays AIS target information (MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG) allows you to contact an AIS Ship directly using DSC, shows your vessels position in relation to AIS targets and alerts you when an AIS ship may be approaching too close to your location via the Closest Point of Approach (CPA) Alarm.

 

[justsomeguy]

When you've spent the money, it must be justified.

 

[mitiempo]

so based on this information from the sh manual i don't really need the transponder


AIS / AIS SART target display: MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG
The MATRIX AIS/GPS displays AIS target information (MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG) allows you to contact an AIS Ship directly using DSC, shows your vessels position in relation to AIS targets and alerts you when an AIS ship may be approaching too close to your location via the Closest Point of Approach (CPA) Alarm.

Only if you want them to see you....

Remember commercial traffic does not need their radar switched on and even if it is on they are probably not looking at the display.

But by law their AIS is on and if you have a transponder they will know you are there.

 

[koolfrog]

The post so nice, let's post it twice!

Well said, capta!

...........+1..................

 

[chuckwayne]

the transponder makes your boat show up on their screen as a specific target with data, unlike radar where most small boats show up as a small, easily missable blip. Mitiempo summed it up well. it's another useful tool in the toolbox