AIS Cheap VHF Ship Alarm

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
5,006
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
To each their own. Personally I like being able to "see" a little further away or around a bend. And I do like seeing the other guy's name, either to make hailing easier or, in the case of megayachts, just out of curiosity.
That's all well and fine if you are able to determine CPA and another vessel's course and speed (pretty closely) without AIS.
But as with GPS, way too many folks are out on the water only because they have all these electronic aids to navigation, and should they fail, that could put them, their crew and vessel in serious jeopardy.
All these fancy toys do not compensate for a lack of basic knowledge.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,792
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
the USCG certified course for radar observer
Good option. Less strain on you than joining the Navy, attendance at the tech school, out to the field for experience, hours of routine sprinkled with s few moments of terror.

Yes the USCG course is a great option.

Having AIS and Radar gives you more information and options to deal with limited visibility. Still, the best is keeping your eyes and ears open and a good watch. You never know what is really out there. Sometimes they are not on any screen.
 
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Jan 11, 2014
13,444
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
In the case of AIS, you might be right assuming one's transmitter is working. In the case of radar, this would be correct if one did not employ a radar reflector. So neither case one is 100%.
I have long ago stopped looking for 100% certainty in anything. I now just look at the probability of something happening or not. :)

As far as the being seen probability, the more information I throw out there the more likely I am to be seen. The research on the effectiveness of radar reflectors is iffy at best. Even with a decent radar reflector, like the Davis in the rain catcher position, being seen on radar is not guaranteed.

With some things I try not to have a single point of failure. With radar and AIS I have 2 ways of seeing besides my eyeballs.
 
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capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
5,006
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Good option. Less strain on you than joining the Navy, attendance at the tech school, out to the field for experience, hours of routine sprinkled with s few moments of terror.

Yes the USCG course is a great option.

Having AIS and Radar gives you more information and options to deal with limited visibility. Still, the best is keeping your eyes and ears open and a good watch. You never know what is really out there. Sometimes they are not on any screen.
I think that is my greatest dislike and distrust of AIS.
Using it with confidence, one assumes that every vessel out there is also using it and as is completely natural, one begins to rely on the 'AID" to navigation and slack off on the more basic forms of safe navigation. I suspect that there are many more vessels that still do not have or use AIS than there are vessels which do, especially in coastal waters, and certainly in 3rd world countries. Not very good odds for a truly reliable, safe system, IMO.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,792
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Your are right @capta. AIS like all tools of navigation or communication have limits.

That was one of the key things I learned.

So taking advantage of some of a tools strengths gives you more time to be alert to the system weaknesses.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,444
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
If one is going to be using and relying on Radar, I would highly recommend the USCG certified course for radar observer. Unlike most USCG courses for licensing, this one actually teaches one valuable information on using, plotting and interpreting radar returns, rather than just preparing one to pass a test.
I installed a B&G 4G radar a couple of seasons ago and have been looking for some guidance on how to get the most from it. I've looked for books, online, and offline courses and have found them lacking in one or more ways.

I read David Burch's Radar for Mariners and found it dated and lacking. At $13 it was affordable but not all that helpful.

At @capta's suggestion I looked for a CG Radar Observer certification course which would no doubt be useful, however the nearest course is 350 miles from home, lasts 4 days and costs $650. By the time travel, hotels, meals are added in, the cost is well over $1200. Too rich for my blood, as I don't have any CG licenses nor do I intend to get one.

So, if anyone is aware of a reasonably priced alternative please let me know.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,762
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
When I had MARPA on my H356 it was too involved to use while piloting the boat. I would have had to have someone just doing that in order for it not to be a distraction from operating the boat. Just monitoring the radar was enough of a distraction from driving the boat. And I used to practice in clear weather.
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
With AIS receive the $$ is low and it provides a lot of information. All big ships (except Navy) have to transmit, many smaller vessels do as well. If it integrates into your chart plotter then you get really nice visual display as well. It isn't perfect, what is? With AIS transmit you become hugely visible to all the big ships (except Navy). Again it isn't perfect
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,444
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
With AIS receive the $$ is low and it provides a lot of information. All big ships (except Navy) have to transmit, many smaller vessels do as well. If it integrates into your chart plotter then you get really nice visual display as well. It isn't perfect, what is? With AIS transmit you become hugely visible to all the big ships (except Navy). Again it isn't perfect
After the accidents last year, the Navy has changed its policy. All Navy vessels are equipped with AIS both transmit and receive. It is now up to the Commander's description whether to turn on the transmit function. Here's one article that touches on the subject: https://gcaptain.com/u-s-navy-ships-to-turn-ais-transmitting-on-in-high-traffic-areas/
 
Apr 24, 2006
868
Aloha 32 Toronto, Lake Ontario
I think some people are missing the point of AIS and radar. They are tools, not certainties.
Yes, keeping a sharp lookout with eyes and ears in fog is mandatory. But factoring in a variety of tools that greatly extend your ability to "see and be seen" certainly can't be argued by anyone who actually sails in a variety of conditions.
A primary reason I have these extra tools is specifically because of the people who don't! lol.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Warning: Long Post.

So just this past week we had another chance to implement the full capabilities of AIS send/receive and RADAR during a night return up the Chesapeake Bay. As darkness fell, rain and mist reduced visibility to 200 yards, the dodger windows misted over and we essentially sailed the last 35 miles on instruments.

My system is an integrated Navico/Simrad MFD with multifrequency RADAR and stand-alone AIS (dedicated antenna on the stern RADAR pole). Both returns overlay on my chartplotter so that I can see a confirmation of AIS with RADAR, real-time.

The Ches is a major commercial and military waterway with 900’ ships mixed with towed barges and tugs, especially at night when the assumption is that the rec boaters have gone home. Typically only the pros are on the water, BUT you have to account for fools who don’t make themselves visible or have the ability to see me.

At night the commercials like to travel in convoy and you can hear them talking on VHF. As we sailed instruments in 17kts of wind and choppy bay it was comforting to hear them pick out my boat and relay my location to others in confirmation. It was also comforting to see them show up on the chartplotter as an AIS target, with a name, COG, and SOG; then see them painted with a RADAR return. I see them at 10 miles or more on AIS, maybe reliable returns at 5 miles on RADAR.

Sailing on a starless and bible black night we were able to reliably and safely ID the commercials with a belt and suspenders combo of RADAR and AIS. We were also able to pick up AIS Cls B rec boats by their AIS long before we could see them on RADAR. Recreational boats made of fiberglass and wood provide poor RADAR returns; even if they have reflectors, even if they are massive floating mobo condos. Their return merges into a choppy sea, dispersed by mist and rain.

So this left us to find and ID the fools who might be out there with no AIS and no RADAR reflectivity. That became the challenge. Even the nav markers gave adequate RADAR returns, some broadcasting on AIS. Luckily the conditions were so deteriorated that any fool could see it was not a good night to be on the water without the right tools. So we had a safe, relatively relaxed and uneventful trip back to our slip. (now, if I could just get the crabbers to place their traps in the legal traps zones).

My point here is that these tools (AIS and RADAR) along with sophisticated MFD processors allowed us to safely navigate in all conditions. The new RADAR require very little training in their use, settings are automated with some controls for sea state, rain, and signal gain. But you have to know how to use them and learn to trust their information. That means using them during daylight and training yourself to interpret the data. You can’t go out, turn on your RADAR and navigate safely, you have to practice.

A few years ago we were returning to the Bay from the Atlantic. The Dismal swamp was burning, mixing smoke with sea smoke, it was a moonless night, commercials were anchored and lit outside the Bay Bridge and the lights of Virginia Beach made it impossible to pick out nav lights from the shore clutter. It looked like Times Square on bar-b-que night! The RADAR showed a faint return ahead but no AIS. A nearby Pilot boat showed on AIS. We slowed and trimmed down to gain full SA; the Pilot boat came on the VHF and hailed me by boat name (got that from my AIS B). He asked if I was aware of the warship in front of me. I noted that I was seeing a faint but not certain RADAR return but was hearing lots of helo and small boat noise. He said yes, it was a boomer headed home to Yorktown with an escort of Team Operators. No normal radio call by the Navy warning of Warship activity, total stealth. I suppose we might have been paid a visit by a SEAL if we got too close! Not sure.

I forget what I paid for my system, it was a lot. And I didn’t try to cobble it together on my own. I had a team of manufacturer-trained pros construct and test the system. Even then there were subtle mistakes that had to be shaken out and resolved. It was installed for days like Monday when these kind of navigation tools make it possible to go well beyond the normal protocols of safe boating.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,444
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Warning: Long Post.

So just this past week we had another chance to implement the full capabilities of AIS send/receive and RADAR during a night return up the Chesapeake Bay. As darkness fell, rain and mist reduced visibility to 200 yards, the dodger windows misted over and we essentially sailed the last 35 miles on instruments.

My system is an integrated Navico/Simrad MFD with multifrequency RADAR and stand-alone AIS (dedicated antenna on the stern RADAR pole). Both returns overlay on my chartplotter so that I can see a confirmation of AIS with RADAR, real-time.

The Ches is a major commercial and military waterway with 900’ ships mixed with towed barges and tugs, especially at night when the assumption is that the rec boaters have gone home. Typically only the pros are on the water, BUT you have to account for fools who don’t make themselves visible or have the ability to see me.

At night the commercials like to travel in convoy and you can hear them talking on VHF. As we sailed instruments in 17kts of wind and choppy bay it was comforting to hear them pick out my boat and relay my location to others in confirmation. It was also comforting to see them show up on the chartplotter as an AIS target, with a name, COG, and SOG; then see them painted with a RADAR return. I see them at 10 miles or more on AIS, maybe reliable returns at 5 miles on RADAR.

Sailing on a starless and bible black night we were able to reliably and safely ID the commercials with a belt and suspenders combo of RADAR and AIS. We were also able to pick up AIS Cls B rec boats by their AIS long before we could see them on RADAR. Recreational boats made of fiberglass and wood provide poor RADAR returns; even if they have reflectors, even if they are massive floating mobo condos. Their return merges into a choppy sea, dispersed by mist and rain.

So this left us to find and ID the fools who might be out there with no AIS and no RADAR reflectivity. That became the challenge. Even the nav markers gave adequate RADAR returns, some broadcasting on AIS. Luckily the conditions were so deteriorated that any fool could see it was not a good night to be on the water without the right tools. So we had a safe, relatively relaxed and uneventful trip back to our slip. (now, if I could just get the crabbers to place their traps in the legal traps zones).

My point here is that these tools (AIS and RADAR) along with sophisticated MFD processors allowed us to safely navigate in all conditions. The new RADAR require very little training in their use, settings are automated with some controls for sea state, rain, and signal gain. But you have to know how to use them and learn to trust their information. That means using them during daylight and training yourself to interpret the data. You can’t go out, turn on your RADAR and navigate safely, you have to practice.

A few years ago we were returning to the Bay from the Atlantic. The Dismal swamp was burning, mixing smoke with sea smoke, it was a moonless night, commercials were anchored and lit outside the Bay Bridge and the lights of Virginia Beach made it impossible to pick out nav lights from the shore clutter. It looked like Times Square on bar-b-que night! The RADAR showed a faint return ahead but no AIS. A nearby Pilot boat showed on AIS. We slowed and trimmed down to gain full SA; the Pilot boat came on the VHF and hailed me by boat name (got that from my AIS B). He asked if I was aware of the warship in front of me. I noted that I was seeing a faint but not certain RADAR return but was hearing lots of helo and small boat noise. He said yes, it was a boomer headed home to Yorktown with an escort of Team Operators. No normal radio call by the Navy warning of Warship activity, total stealth. I suppose we might have been paid a visit by a SEAL if we got too close! Not sure.

I forget what I paid for my system, it was a lot. And I didn’t try to cobble it together on my own. I had a team of manufacturer-trained pros construct and test the system. Even then there were subtle mistakes that had to be shaken out and resolved. It was installed for days like Monday when these kind of navigation tools make it possible to go well beyond the normal protocols of safe boating.
And this is why I installed essentially the same system you have.

Even if you couldn't see the warship ahead, I'm pretty sure they knew exactly where you were and if you got too close there would be a meet and greet. :) With no :beer: along.
 
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Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Even if you couldn't see the warship ahead, I'm pretty sure they knew exactly where you were and if you got too close there would be a meet and greet. :) With no :beer: along.
This was before 2017 and the Fitzgerald and McCain incidents exposed some flaws in those assumptions!
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,444
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
This was before 2017 and the Fitzgerald and McCain incidents exposed some flaws in those assumptions!
I'm sure they had the technology to see you, however, who knows if they were paying attention.
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
The Fitzgerald "saw" the Crystal, they were somehow unable to take correct action to avoid the collision, and nobody thought to look out the window. The McCain was worse they were simply incapable of steering the ship in a straight line. Happy Veterans Day
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
5,006
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I'm sure they had the technology to see you, however, who knows if they were paying attention.
During my many ditch trips from Liquordale to the NE and back, whenever there was a military movement at one of the various bases along the ICW, there were plenty of USCG and navy small craft, usually with at least one 50 cal mounted on board, to make quite certain we stayed clear of the waterway until their vessel had passed.
Not much chance of not being seen or not seeing.
I have had problems around Pearl Harbor, however. For some reason those Hawaiian based boats didn't keep an adequate lookout. Perhaps the crew had too many Mai Tais before departure?
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Twice on the Bahama trip, once off Nassau and the other crossing the Gulf Stream at night, AIS warned that I was on a collision course with a large commercial boat. In both cases I was able to hail the other boat and ask if they saw me. Neither did until I called. One asked me to turn and the other turned away from me. Running at about 5 knots with a ship running over 20 bearing down on you in the dark it is a nice feature to have.

Also crossing back from Westend at 2 in the morning a sailboat transmitting AIS was on a bearing to me. I kept turning away and they passed about a 100 yards off with the crew apparently all asleep.

The smaller your boat is, making it harder for a large boat to see you, having transmit would be nice to have.

On the Endeavour we have AIS via the Standard Horizon radio and chartplotter and also back up running free OpenCPN on a very low power Raspberry Pi computer with a $70 AIS board in it that is connected to a separate VHF antenna mounted to the back of the solar array. Both seem to pick up the same targets. More on it here...

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/end-1/Endeavour-electronics/page-3.html

Sumner
======================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...

MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
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