I'm redoing the electrical system on my boat, and as part of that I'm putting in new Trojan 12V 27-AGM batteries. I have a basic alternator, and will need a charge controller for it so i don't fry the nice new batteries. I will have 3 banks total, a single battery starting battery (which will be a dual purpose battery, not a AGM), and 2 house strings of Trojan 27-AGM, so i will need a charge controller capable of 3 banks of mixed type. Anyone know of one? Have any warnings?
AGM charge controller for alternator
- Thread starter Donald6441
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AGN Charge Controller
Donald: I understand from Practical Sailor mag. that Xantrax has a new battery charger that can separately charge up to 3 banks of different types of batteries . Recommend you Google Xantrax re their new offering. Practical Sailor says the new charger is very intelligent, and includes temperature sensors which are really needed to prevent overcharging batteries and causing subsequent battery damage.
Donald: I understand from Practical Sailor mag. that Xantrax has a new battery charger that can separately charge up to 3 banks of different types of batteries . Recommend you Google Xantrax re their new offering. Practical Sailor says the new charger is very intelligent, and includes temperature sensors which are really needed to prevent overcharging batteries and causing subsequent battery damage.
None that I know of
as the previous post states, Xantrax just came out with a 'smart' multi type charger for shorepower (AC) charging but I don't know how a alternator (regardless of regulator) could be made to charge more than one mode or program at a time. Two things; Why don't you just put in an AGM starting battery like the vertical spiral-wound type. Then you won't have that problem. Second, why split your house bank in two? It's added complexity and will reduce the total number of cycles that can be offered. Each small bank will have to be cycled twice as often thus greatly reducing the life of the bank. You'll also be charging twice as often and more than twice as long because your alternator won't be charging at near capacity due to the much smaller current a split bank will accept. By splitting an AGM house bank you're completely negating the advantages of going with those expensive AGM's. That is, their longer life and quicker charging. There's no upside to a split house bank.
as the previous post states, Xantrax just came out with a 'smart' multi type charger for shorepower (AC) charging but I don't know how a alternator (regardless of regulator) could be made to charge more than one mode or program at a time. Two things; Why don't you just put in an AGM starting battery like the vertical spiral-wound type. Then you won't have that problem. Second, why split your house bank in two? It's added complexity and will reduce the total number of cycles that can be offered. Each small bank will have to be cycled twice as often thus greatly reducing the life of the bank. You'll also be charging twice as often and more than twice as long because your alternator won't be charging at near capacity due to the much smaller current a split bank will accept. By splitting an AGM house bank you're completely negating the advantages of going with those expensive AGM's. That is, their longer life and quicker charging. There's no upside to a split house bank.
well, I'm just being my normal paranoid self
by splitting the bank. I don't want a single battery with an internal short eating all my power while I'm offshore.
by splitting the bank. I don't want a single battery with an internal short eating all my power while I'm offshore.
A little paranoia is okay but
since your house bank will be a bunch of paralleled 27's, if you find one that's gone belly up while you're out why couldn't you just disconnect it from the bank while leaving the rest hooked up? If you have a split bank and one battery craps out then you're left with one small bank and one that's REALLY small. I've actually had this happen with my cheap-ass wet cells and it was no problem at all until I could get to civilization to deal with it. It's one of the perks of having a house bank made up of smaller batteries as opposed to, say, an 8D. Internal screw-ups on high quality batteries like the Trojan AGM's are pretty rare and this fix-it option will beat designing in a permanent compromise.
since your house bank will be a bunch of paralleled 27's, if you find one that's gone belly up while you're out why couldn't you just disconnect it from the bank while leaving the rest hooked up? If you have a split bank and one battery craps out then you're left with one small bank and one that's REALLY small. I've actually had this happen with my cheap-ass wet cells and it was no problem at all until I could get to civilization to deal with it. It's one of the perks of having a house bank made up of smaller batteries as opposed to, say, an 8D. Internal screw-ups on high quality batteries like the Trojan AGM's are pretty rare and this fix-it option will beat designing in a permanent compromise.
New Xantrex ?
Just Reading here on a new Xantrex charger , I have recently over the winter purchased a Xantrex Truecharge 40a charger , and , with what I see and read it is not advisable to mix battery types , am I correct on this , or can I use a Optima for a starting battery and a pair of wet cell deepcycle gp27's for house batteries .
Just Reading here on a new Xantrex charger , I have recently over the winter purchased a Xantrex Truecharge 40a charger , and , with what I see and read it is not advisable to mix battery types , am I correct on this , or can I use a Optima for a starting battery and a pair of wet cell deepcycle gp27's for house batteries .
Xantrex regulator
Along these same lines, I'm getting ready to install the Xantrex alternator regulator that comes with the Link 2000R setup. I've replaced the original split house bank with a single bank of four 4D AGMs and have a separate group 27 AGM starter. Likewise, I don't want to fry the AGMs if I'm motoring for a long ways, hence the regulator. Anybody on this topic have any experience with the Xantrex regulator with AGMs? If not, I'll write in after it's installed and I've had a chance to test it a bit. Cheers
Along these same lines, I'm getting ready to install the Xantrex alternator regulator that comes with the Link 2000R setup. I've replaced the original split house bank with a single bank of four 4D AGMs and have a separate group 27 AGM starter. Likewise, I don't want to fry the AGMs if I'm motoring for a long ways, hence the regulator. Anybody on this topic have any experience with the Xantrex regulator with AGMs? If not, I'll write in after it's installed and I've had a chance to test it a bit. Cheers
Mark, the regulator should have a program setting
for charging the AGM's They should be very happy even over long motoring runs. RoadTool, if your Xantrax isn't that new whiz-bang super-smart charger that they just came out with then no, either your Optima or your wet cells won't be happy. The only thing I can think of is to take one bank off line, program the Trucharge for the other and charge. Then do vice versa. Kind of a pain. You might consider changing out the Optima for a wet cell. Fred, Gord, you out there?
for charging the AGM's They should be very happy even over long motoring runs. RoadTool, if your Xantrax isn't that new whiz-bang super-smart charger that they just came out with then no, either your Optima or your wet cells won't be happy. The only thing I can think of is to take one bank off line, program the Trucharge for the other and charge. Then do vice versa. Kind of a pain. You might consider changing out the Optima for a wet cell. Fred, Gord, you out there?
AGMs
Hi don I think you could get a regular smart charger (three stage)and run it two one large house bank ,then get a echo charger that runs off your house bank that can be set to the right voltage for wet cell.I like the WM echo charger. If the batterys where the same I would get a battery combiner that banks all batterys togerter for chargeing and separates the starting bank when the voltage gets below a determined level 12.2 volts or so.If you feel that you need extra power you can get a larger start battery.I think agms charge at the same voltage as wet cells the differnce is in the rate of charge and the time it takes to reach full charge.We use the Agms in trucks with a 14.4 volt alt no problem.I also like the wm switch set up in there cataloge ( no bank1 bank2 both off there is just three on off switchs, one for house, one for start and one for all the least amount of cuts in the wire the better
Hi don I think you could get a regular smart charger (three stage)and run it two one large house bank ,then get a echo charger that runs off your house bank that can be set to the right voltage for wet cell.I like the WM echo charger. If the batterys where the same I would get a battery combiner that banks all batterys togerter for chargeing and separates the starting bank when the voltage gets below a determined level 12.2 volts or so.If you feel that you need extra power you can get a larger start battery.I think agms charge at the same voltage as wet cells the differnce is in the rate of charge and the time it takes to reach full charge.We use the Agms in trucks with a 14.4 volt alt no problem.I also like the wm switch set up in there cataloge ( no bank1 bank2 both off there is just three on off switchs, one for house, one for start and one for all the least amount of cuts in the wire the better
There has been a lot of theory here
I run two group 31 house batteries and a smaller starting battery all AGM. They get charged from the alternator on my Volvo engine and ignored otherwise. When I put the boat to bed in November the battery voltage was 12.50 in March when I opened her up the voltage was 12.35. I have used these batteries since 1999 and replaced them in the spring of 2005. I do nothing in terms of maintenance in the mean time.
I run two group 31 house batteries and a smaller starting battery all AGM. They get charged from the alternator on my Volvo engine and ignored otherwise. When I put the boat to bed in November the battery voltage was 12.50 in March when I opened her up the voltage was 12.35. I have used these batteries since 1999 and replaced them in the spring of 2005. I do nothing in terms of maintenance in the mean time.
Hey RoadTool, I was wrong!
I was just checking the Balmar alternator regulator manual (see link) and there's a chart in there showing the voltages and time spans for the different programs. Lo and behold, the programs for the deep cycle wet cell and the Optima spiral wound are IDENTICAL! So it appears that you CAN charge both battery types (in this instance) with the same charge program. Sorry for the mistake. I tossed off advice without checking specifics. Your refund is in the mail and I throw myself before the mercy of the board.
I was just checking the Balmar alternator regulator manual (see link) and there's a chart in there showing the voltages and time spans for the different programs. Lo and behold, the programs for the deep cycle wet cell and the Optima spiral wound are IDENTICAL! So it appears that you CAN charge both battery types (in this instance) with the same charge program. Sorry for the mistake. I tossed off advice without checking specifics. Your refund is in the mail and I throw myself before the mercy of the board.
AGM's
AGM's were originally designed to survive the high vibration and physical abuse of the aircraft environment. I doubt there has ever been an internal short failure in one without abusing it to the point where the case breaks. I use and install Concorde AGM's in solar installations and have a few systems 12+ years old and they still have 80% original capacity. Their charge voltage specs are the same as flooded batteries. Lifeline is their marine version of this battery. I like AGM's in my boat because of all the benefits of no maintenance, no acid spills, no gassing, no nasty corroded terminals. Flooded golf cart style batteries will last 5-7 years, a properly sized AGM bank will last 10+ years.
AGM's were originally designed to survive the high vibration and physical abuse of the aircraft environment. I doubt there has ever been an internal short failure in one without abusing it to the point where the case breaks. I use and install Concorde AGM's in solar installations and have a few systems 12+ years old and they still have 80% original capacity. Their charge voltage specs are the same as flooded batteries. Lifeline is their marine version of this battery. I like AGM's in my boat because of all the benefits of no maintenance, no acid spills, no gassing, no nasty corroded terminals. Flooded golf cart style batteries will last 5-7 years, a properly sized AGM bank will last 10+ years.
decided to use an optima spiral for the starter
battery and to combine the 2 house banks, which will really simplify things. Your right, these aren't like old flooded cells, a likelihood of a failure is very low. Sometimes things look good on paper but don't in the real world, this was one of them.
battery and to combine the 2 house banks, which will really simplify things. Your right, these aren't like old flooded cells, a likelihood of a failure is very low. Sometimes things look good on paper but don't in the real world, this was one of them.
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