After long sleep, starting 2-Stroke motor

centerline · Feb 28, 2014

how did you determine the faulty fuel pump?.... the pump does not work unless the engine is running, that is why there must be a primer bulb in the system....it delivers fuel pressure until the engine/pump takes over. this is assuming it is an outboard we are talking about..

if it was my engine, I would use a very small shot of starting fluid to see if it would hit on that... sometimes an engine that has been setting awhile needs something a bit hotter to fire on, especially if it was fogged before lay up....

if its a conventional motor with EFI, a fuel pump will not let it get fuel and it wont run... you need between 40 and 60 psi fuel pressure at the rail before it will run. and you shouldnt need starting fluid...

no matter what kind of motor, when you do get it running, use some seafoam in the fuel. it will clean the fuel system and injectors and help stabilize the fuel... and if its in a marine application I would recommend using nothing except ethanol free gas in it... forever. as that will prevent any future fuel system troubles.

StinkBug · Feb 28, 2014

centerline said:
and I would recommend using nothing except ethanol free gas in it... forever. as that will prevent any future fuel system troubles.

Good luck finding that in California.

Ether is a good start, but really we need to know more about the motor. What is it? Electric fuel pump or mechanical?

Winkfish · Feb 28, 2014

Maybe try hand-cranking a few times to get the cylinders lubed. And would it help (and be OK) to maybe put a little blended fuel into each spark plug hole to get the lube in the cylinders?

I second the SeaFoam.

sail_MN · Feb 28, 2014

The first thing you want to do is find out whether your problem is ignition or fuel related. Check to make sure there is good spark at the plugs. If you have good "blue" spark and the plugs are dry after cranking the engine, then you are not getting fuel. Not sure on your particular motor but it may be an electric fuel pump which shouldnt be too hard to diagnose. A Seloc shop manual is always a good tool to have around.

MrUnix · Feb 28, 2014

If you are worried about running the cylinder(s) dry, pop out the spark plug and squirt a little marvel mystery oil (or any light machine oil) into the cylinder. And I would also try the starting fluid suggestion to try and bump it over initially. I always run my outboards bone dry before prolonged storage and have never had a problem starting them up years later... but I don't have any EFI outboards, so YMMV.

Cheers,
Brad

Bill Roosa · Feb 28, 2014

I'd not be overly concerned about the lack of oil during starting a 2-cycle engine. You are not going to be turning it over that fast or for that long.
With that said does it have an oil injection pump or do you mix it with the gas?
the former will provide oil anytime the motor is turning even if it is not running or not getting fuel.

centerline · Feb 28, 2014

so the electric fuel pump is not working... if it is an EFI motor, then you are not getting enough fuel pressure to push fuel to the injectors, because it takes high fuel pressure to load them so they will inject... it wont run, fire or show any other signs of life til it gets fuel pressure... but in the meantime, you can pull a sparkplug, insert it into its wire and hold it against the engine block and crank it over.... to see if it is getting spark.

Bill Roosa · Feb 28, 2014

So oiling is not a problem. The oil injection pump is still supplying oil even if the gas tank is dry
three things are needed for an engine to run; fuel, ignition and compression. I'm going to assume that the compression is ok so pull the spark plug, put the spark plug wire back on and leave the spark plug on the cylinder head. It helps to be in the shade to see the spark. turn the engine over and note if there is a "fat blue spark". If you see anything you are probably ok. if that is ok then put the spark plug back in and crank the engine (pull start???? or short out the start solenoid with the ignition off) for about 5 seconds with the throttle at idle. Pull the spark plug and note if there is any fuel on it. if so then you have a mixture problem, if the plug is dry then no fuel is getting to the engine.
good luck and I prefer oars for this very reason.

kloudie1 · Feb 28, 2014

I am with Unix on this one.. Pull each plug and squirt some MMO or even WD-40 in, especially toward the top.. I would not trust that the oil pump is working unless you've drained the old oil out and verified that the pump is working. 2 stroke oil sometimes makes a mess when left in the pump and tank.

knot smart · Feb 28, 2014

pull the plugs , shoot a little WD40 in each cylinder and turn the motor over a couple times with the plugs out.. that will lube the cylinders.. attach a plug wire to one plug and hold the plug so the base of the plug is touching the metal where the plugs thread into the head.. turn the motot over a couple times while looking at the plug...you should see spark.. my motor has the little clip that has to be in otherwise theres no spark ..

Steve Dion · Feb 28, 2014

StinkBug said:
Good luck finding that in California.

Ether is a good start, but really we need to know more about the motor. What is it? Electric fuel pump or mechanical?

It is available! http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA

kloudie1 · Mar 1, 2014

Pull the oil tubes from the tank to the pump and make sure they are clear and flowing. Pull the tubes from the metering pump and make sure they are clean and flowing. With the plugs out and the pipe still off at the outlet of the oil metering pump, open the throttle wide and crank 5-10 seconds.. you should have oil coming out the discharge of the pump. Disable the electric pump when you do that to keep from flooding the engine.

monkeybars · Mar 1, 2014

centerline said:
how did you determine the faulty fuel pump?.... the pump does not work unless the engine is running, that is why there must be a primer bulb in the system....it delivers fuel pressure until the engine/pump takes over. this is assuming it is an outboard we are talking about..

if it was my engine, I would use a very small shot of starting fluid to see if it would hit on that... sometimes an engine that has been setting awhile needs something a bit hotter to fire on, especially if it was fogged before lay up....

if its a conventional motor with EFI, a fuel pump will not let it get fuel and it wont run... you need between 40 and 60 psi fuel pressure at the rail before it will run. and you shouldnt need starting fluid...

no matter what kind of motor, when you do get it running, use some seafoam in the fuel. it will clean the fuel system and injectors and help stabilize the fuel... and if its in a marine application I would recommend using nothing except ethanol free gas in it... forever. as that will prevent any future fuel system troubles.

This is very funny, you tell him to use seafoam which contains 89% ethanol as its base, then tell him not to use ethanol blended gas because it will harm his engine.This is an ole wives tale that will not die, any EFI motor will not be harmed by ethanol fuel in any way except when you add water to your gas tank which is a maintenance problem not an ethanol problem. To OP first get a svc manual for your motor so you know what your ECM fault codes are and how to access them from your ECM. This will eliminate all this fifty year old advice your getting here about how to tell if your plugs, pump etc are working. This is 2014, your ECM will tell you when any of those components are not functioning. Second make sure you check that your oil pump is bled of all air, it supplies oil to crank bearings in addition to cylinder piston lube, your svc manual (not a Chilton, a real manual from your manfctr) will tell you how to bleed the oil pump and the fuel rail of air. And never run an EFI motor dry of fuel, it is not in any way similar to an old carb'ed motor, beware of out dated advice it can cost you big money...

alexco38 · Mar 1, 2014

I recall the technology is call Fleisch fuel injection pioneered by Johnson.

It uses individual electrified injector to shoot fuel into the cylinder.
The fuel never reach the crankcase thus you need sepsrate oil there.

The injector use a stepped up voltage (higher then 12) to fire a plunger to squirt fuel.
Johnson had a lot of problem with injector carbon up due to oil mixture in the fuel.
The engine only produced a few years after Bombardi bought the company.

You may want to take the injector out and check the nozzle.

victorhoisington · Mar 1, 2014

Ok after all of the questions about fuel and oil. The last 2 stroke I worked on we had a couple of issues. 1. make sure the safety tether is set and you don't have some sort of electrical problem or safety switch that is preventing the motor from starting. 2. and this was the fun one, after watching a friend just about have a heart attack trying to start his wife's motor, spending an hour getting it to fire with starting fluid but then die, make sure the fuel shut-off is open.

Good lucck

31seahorse · Mar 1, 2014

RE: electric start.......

Be wary of cranking the engine! Use very short efforts to try to get it to start.

I was proud of my efforts to repair an old engine and restart it after it waited for several months to be used again. Cranked a bit, waited, cranked a bit more, waited, cranked again and saw light smoke coming ut of the cowling. I knew that wasn't good! Turned off the key and prayed that I would not see flames and need the fire extinguisher as I removed the cowling. No flames, but severely melted coating on the wiring! That happened even though I thought I was being careful with the short cranking times. BTW: The boat and motor were outside in the yard during the "repairs".

Solution: (expensive, but met my needs) Bought a new 4 stroke engine.

Phil