Hey there I am looking to get a good sander to do a really good job when I have some sanding needs around the boat and am I reaching out to this board for your advise. There are so many different makes and models and features and I am not sure what is really that important . I don't mind spending a little more money for one when it is worth it, but in this case I'm not sure what to look for. I already have a 1/4 Sheet DeWalt Palm Sander and its ok, but I'm looking for a little something more I will be generally using the sander for jobs like bottom sanding and being able to do a quick, good job of feathering out the edges of the bottom paint where its flaked off. But I also want one that will also be powerful enough for some any other projects you might envision, who knows, maybe things like grinding fiberglass or gelcoat for repairs, buffing ?? etc. Maybe you all have some other ideas . 1) Does anybody have any preferences or ideas on what Pad size would 5" do or is a 6" pad better ? 2) What type of sanding pad's do you prefer Hook & Loop or Adhesive stick ons? Any advantage in costs of sandpaper? 3) What about Power/Amps of the sander? Would almost any do or is the most powerful one that important? What would be the minimum Amps for the sander? 4) What about speed ranges available? I have seen everything from 2500-6000 rpm to 4800-12000 rpm. How important is a very high speed or very low speed? Is there any benefits to lower speed 5) Should I only look at the models that have a Dust bag and or vacuum adapter? 6) What about other features like variable speed control, T-handle, Special sanding motion etc, etc 7) What brands should I stay away from? Any general advise would be appreciated. Thanks in Advance
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Wow! I'd forgotten there were so many things to
consider. I was just going to say stay away from gimmicks like hook and loop or pointy ends. Make sure a quarter sheet of standard paper is what fits but, other that buying a quality product at a store that will take care of you, Duh.
consider. I was just going to say stay away from gimmicks like hook and loop or pointy ends. Make sure a quarter sheet of standard paper is what fits but, other that buying a quality product at a store that will take care of you, Duh.
Sanders
Have had Porter Cables and DeWalts, hook and loop and stickums. Both makers' products have taken a serious flogging and held up well. Vacuum adapter is a must for bottom work in my opinion. Hope this helps. Regards, Jim
Have had Porter Cables and DeWalts, hook and loop and stickums. Both makers' products have taken a serious flogging and held up well. Vacuum adapter is a must for bottom work in my opinion. Hope this helps. Regards, Jim
porter cable random orbital
I have a porter cable 'quicksand' model 333, random orbital, 5" hook and loop. for the price, pretty happy with it. ($60) a little tall, and heavy but good results. the hook and loop worked pretty good. I burned it up, and had it replaced under warranty, but it was a nasty bottom job, and understandable under the conditions. maybe I'd buy the makita next time, but hate to kill a good sander on bottom work. they also make a adjustable speed model, which could be nice for finish work...
I have a porter cable 'quicksand' model 333, random orbital, 5" hook and loop. for the price, pretty happy with it. ($60) a little tall, and heavy but good results. the hook and loop worked pretty good. I burned it up, and had it replaced under warranty, but it was a nasty bottom job, and understandable under the conditions. maybe I'd buy the makita next time, but hate to kill a good sander on bottom work. they also make a adjustable speed model, which could be nice for finish work...
Sanders
My whole crew has been using Makita orbital palm sanders for years. They take a beating and .. well you know. We generally spend 100 man/hours each spring preping the bottom. The weight of a sander becomes a real issue over time. Small, durable and light weight are key factors.
My whole crew has been using Makita orbital palm sanders for years. They take a beating and .. well you know. We generally spend 100 man/hours each spring preping the bottom. The weight of a sander becomes a real issue over time. Small, durable and light weight are key factors.
Makita with the dust bag
This one had five-inch circular pads with the hook and loop backing. The light weight, dust bag and vacuum were great for working under the boat. I did extensive blister repairs followed by four coats of epoxy barrier coat and it ran like a champ. For faster work when sanding, start off using coarse paper, reduce the size as you get closer to the end and change the sanding disks often (don't skimp). Peter H23 "Raven"
This one had five-inch circular pads with the hook and loop backing. The light weight, dust bag and vacuum were great for working under the boat. I did extensive blister repairs followed by four coats of epoxy barrier coat and it ran like a champ. For faster work when sanding, start off using coarse paper, reduce the size as you get closer to the end and change the sanding disks often (don't skimp). Peter H23 "Raven"
Porter-Cable or Fein
The real deal is a Porter-Cable 6" random-orbital, variable-speed sander with the vacuum feature (hooked to a shopvac for ecology), using the hook+loop pads. You won't find them in the local stores, look for equipment supply houses or online. Buy an assortment of paper for it at the same time cause it uses 6-hole stuff. 60-80-120 grit or more. (Fein brand is another gem for more money.) I love mine, it purrs through any task. Plenty of power, any speed you want, paper never 'packs' up.
The real deal is a Porter-Cable 6" random-orbital, variable-speed sander with the vacuum feature (hooked to a shopvac for ecology), using the hook+loop pads. You won't find them in the local stores, look for equipment supply houses or online. Buy an assortment of paper for it at the same time cause it uses 6-hole stuff. 60-80-120 grit or more. (Fein brand is another gem for more money.) I love mine, it purrs through any task. Plenty of power, any speed you want, paper never 'packs' up.
Agree with John
I have the Porter Cable and it is a really nice piece of equipment. Excellent for bottom sanding. You can usually get a good deal on Ebay if the local guys don't carry them. Tim R
I have the Porter Cable and it is a really nice piece of equipment. Excellent for bottom sanding. You can usually get a good deal on Ebay if the local guys don't carry them. Tim R
A decent ROS can double as a buffer...
with the right pad and speed setting. I have the DeWalt and like it, not sure there's a huge difference in brands. Hooking it up to your shop vac is a great idea even if you don't have an adapter have to use duct tape, it really cuts down on the dust. Make sure you know how many dust holes your disks have when you go to buy new ones, it's easy to grab the wrong kind from the shelf, then you have to punch out extra holes ;.) An ROS is better than the 1/4 sheet sanders for most things but the 1/4 sheet can get into tighter spaces and flush against surfaces so it's handy for some things - don't throw it away. Of course if you REALLY want to remove stuff go get a 3 or 4 inch belt sander or grinder. Easy to make a mess with those!
with the right pad and speed setting. I have the DeWalt and like it, not sure there's a huge difference in brands. Hooking it up to your shop vac is a great idea even if you don't have an adapter have to use duct tape, it really cuts down on the dust. Make sure you know how many dust holes your disks have when you go to buy new ones, it's easy to grab the wrong kind from the shelf, then you have to punch out extra holes ;.) An ROS is better than the 1/4 sheet sanders for most things but the 1/4 sheet can get into tighter spaces and flush against surfaces so it's handy for some things - don't throw it away. Of course if you REALLY want to remove stuff go get a 3 or 4 inch belt sander or grinder. Easy to make a mess with those!
Hand sanding?
Your opinions please? Is it absured to consider sanding the bottom by hand (30 footer)? I plan to scrap and sand by hand as I'm concerned about damage to the gelcoat. I've never used a power sander on a boat before and I've heard stories about them getting away and digging too far into the gelcoat. I just discovered that I have a Baltoplate finish covered(somewhat)with a few coats of ablative. The ablative isn't adhering to the Baltoplate. The yard tells me all the paint has to come off(scrapping it off doesn't appear to be too bad), the smooth Baltoplate has to be roughed up so a barrier coat will "grab on", then a couple of coats of ablative. I was planning on hand sanding with 80 grit. After reading these posts, I'm thinking otherwise. Thanks.
Your opinions please? Is it absured to consider sanding the bottom by hand (30 footer)? I plan to scrap and sand by hand as I'm concerned about damage to the gelcoat. I've never used a power sander on a boat before and I've heard stories about them getting away and digging too far into the gelcoat. I just discovered that I have a Baltoplate finish covered(somewhat)with a few coats of ablative. The ablative isn't adhering to the Baltoplate. The yard tells me all the paint has to come off(scrapping it off doesn't appear to be too bad), the smooth Baltoplate has to be roughed up so a barrier coat will "grab on", then a couple of coats of ablative. I was planning on hand sanding with 80 grit. After reading these posts, I'm thinking otherwise. Thanks.
My arm hurts just thinking about it...
hand sanding toxic bottom paint off a 30 foot boat sounds like torture! I suppose you might be able to do it but a power sander and shop vac is really the way to go, your life will be SO much easier. Don't forget a respirator too. As long as you keep the pad flat and don't try to sand with the edge you won't go too deep.
hand sanding toxic bottom paint off a 30 foot boat sounds like torture! I suppose you might be able to do it but a power sander and shop vac is really the way to go, your life will be SO much easier. Don't forget a respirator too. As long as you keep the pad flat and don't try to sand with the edge you won't go too deep.
Belt Sander Believer...
After plodding along for about a day-and-a-half with an orbital on the hard copper bottom paint, my arms felt like they had 10# weights on 'em in addition to lifting the sander. At that point I ceased to care so much about my health, the environment or much of anything else but getting the job done and elected to just 'try' the belt sander...this was after doing the Peel Away ordeal. I found that after a couple of minutes of 'fast' continual motion that it settled down and was only about 10-times faster than the orbital. The trick was to NEVER stop moving it in circles and also to keep light, steady, 'flat' pressure on it. The orbital was best for touch-up and detail work...until the motor brushes clogged up with (conductive) copper dust. Shortened what would have been a week or more to about a day and a half with good results. This one had the dust collector bag which, I suppose, could have been connected to a shop vac.
After plodding along for about a day-and-a-half with an orbital on the hard copper bottom paint, my arms felt like they had 10# weights on 'em in addition to lifting the sander. At that point I ceased to care so much about my health, the environment or much of anything else but getting the job done and elected to just 'try' the belt sander...this was after doing the Peel Away ordeal. I found that after a couple of minutes of 'fast' continual motion that it settled down and was only about 10-times faster than the orbital. The trick was to NEVER stop moving it in circles and also to keep light, steady, 'flat' pressure on it. The orbital was best for touch-up and detail work...until the motor brushes clogged up with (conductive) copper dust. Shortened what would have been a week or more to about a day and a half with good results. This one had the dust collector bag which, I suppose, could have been connected to a shop vac.
Get a Porter Cable Model 7336 ROS for the ...
jobs you describe. Heavy duty, good sander and also buffer attachment. So, go to your nearest Porter Cable Service Center and pick up a rebuilt unit at about half retail new. It will last you your lifetime. If they do not have one on hand have them call you when they do. Terry
jobs you describe. Heavy duty, good sander and also buffer attachment. So, go to your nearest Porter Cable Service Center and pick up a rebuilt unit at about half retail new. It will last you your lifetime. If they do not have one on hand have them call you when they do. Terry
A Baltoplate finish is heaven , WHY change it
Under your ablative you've got what every sailor is looking for, a smooth, fast finish that nothing will hurt. WHY would you want to change it???? That hard smooth finish is very easy to keep clean and allows you to sail your boat to its potential.
Under your ablative you've got what every sailor is looking for, a smooth, fast finish that nothing will hurt. WHY would you want to change it???? That hard smooth finish is very easy to keep clean and allows you to sail your boat to its potential.
Sander With Suction
You ask what's important. Answer: Sander that has suction capabilities. I also started with a 1/4 sheet DeWalt but you need special capabilities for real production. For bottom paint you don't want that dust hanging around. You want it contained. [answer to #5 is YES!] A random orbital sander with suction capabilities with a hose (most have adapters) connected to a shop vac will do a clean job sanding bottom paint. The other advantage of the vaccum is it helps to keep the sand paper from clogging up. Personally, I use a Bosch random orbital, 5-inch, that I got about 10 years ago, or so. I use a "soft" backing pad with Velcro [answer to #2 is hook & loop] and it has 8 holes. I've done the boat bottom every year with this setup, until last year when I skipped, and it's worked fine. The backing pad was replaced the last time because the hook-and-loop wasn't sticking well anymore at a cost of under $20 from Tool Town in Seattle. I use 60 grit paper which I buy in bulk, 25 pk., and use about 4 sheets on a 35 foot boat with Petit Trinidad. The other "what's important" item is to hire someone from Labor Ready at $15/hr to run the sander! Sanding time is 4 hours and I use him for another 4 hours waxing the hull while I do the painting and the other less labor intensive jobs. The random orbital with suction helps to keep the paper from clogging on varnish too. The life expectancy of the sandpaper will really increase over your palm sander - at least it did for me. Plus you don't have the problem of ripping the paper to size and trying to "feed" the paper under the clamps. Shop Vac: use a drywall bag and not a regular paper bag to keep the copper out of the motor. Connecting Hose between the sander and the shop vac - keep emptied of dust. Because the bottom paint is heavy and because the sander and the shop vac is above ground level there is a tendency for the heavy bottom paint dust to settle out in the hose so periodically, starting at the sander, raise the hose up and allow the dust to flow into the shop vac - but do it gently so as not do dump it in the shop vac all at one time because it can't handle it. Coveralls: Use Tyvek with built-in hood. http://www.tyvekcoveralls.com/coveralls.html Polishing and Waxing: Bought a Electronic Sander-Polisher, Makita 9227C - 7", specifically for waxing. Variable speed (0-3,000 RPM) with pre-set maximum speed dial; ideal for ultra slow polishing. Also uses a hook and loop pad; wool for wax. http://www.makitatools.com/tools_Item_View.asp?id=257 Answer to #6: both of these tools have good comfortable handles for long hours of use. Answer to #7: This particular Makita has a good following among professionals that wax boats. It was somewhere around $200, more or less. This particular Bosch is an old model now and I don't remember what the speed details were. It wasn't terribly expensive. Use ONLY ONE tool on bottom paint because it will turn the color of the paint. I use the same extension cords and work boots year after year. In fact, I have a Sterlite plastic box with all bottom-paint supplies (except the paint) and haul-out related tools along with computer haul-out check lists, one for work items and the other for the box inventory to ensure I have everything. Oh, and the shop vac bag - make sure the weight of the paint dust (you know how heavy a gallon of bottom paint is) doesn't pull the bag off what it's attached to otherwise you'll have a real mess. Check it from time to time and empty early if necessary. The cost of a new bag is peanuts.
You ask what's important. Answer: Sander that has suction capabilities. I also started with a 1/4 sheet DeWalt but you need special capabilities for real production. For bottom paint you don't want that dust hanging around. You want it contained. [answer to #5 is YES!] A random orbital sander with suction capabilities with a hose (most have adapters) connected to a shop vac will do a clean job sanding bottom paint. The other advantage of the vaccum is it helps to keep the sand paper from clogging up. Personally, I use a Bosch random orbital, 5-inch, that I got about 10 years ago, or so. I use a "soft" backing pad with Velcro [answer to #2 is hook & loop] and it has 8 holes. I've done the boat bottom every year with this setup, until last year when I skipped, and it's worked fine. The backing pad was replaced the last time because the hook-and-loop wasn't sticking well anymore at a cost of under $20 from Tool Town in Seattle. I use 60 grit paper which I buy in bulk, 25 pk., and use about 4 sheets on a 35 foot boat with Petit Trinidad. The other "what's important" item is to hire someone from Labor Ready at $15/hr to run the sander! Sanding time is 4 hours and I use him for another 4 hours waxing the hull while I do the painting and the other less labor intensive jobs. The random orbital with suction helps to keep the paper from clogging on varnish too. The life expectancy of the sandpaper will really increase over your palm sander - at least it did for me. Plus you don't have the problem of ripping the paper to size and trying to "feed" the paper under the clamps. Shop Vac: use a drywall bag and not a regular paper bag to keep the copper out of the motor. Connecting Hose between the sander and the shop vac - keep emptied of dust. Because the bottom paint is heavy and because the sander and the shop vac is above ground level there is a tendency for the heavy bottom paint dust to settle out in the hose so periodically, starting at the sander, raise the hose up and allow the dust to flow into the shop vac - but do it gently so as not do dump it in the shop vac all at one time because it can't handle it. Coveralls: Use Tyvek with built-in hood. http://www.tyvekcoveralls.com/coveralls.html Polishing and Waxing: Bought a Electronic Sander-Polisher, Makita 9227C - 7", specifically for waxing. Variable speed (0-3,000 RPM) with pre-set maximum speed dial; ideal for ultra slow polishing. Also uses a hook and loop pad; wool for wax. http://www.makitatools.com/tools_Item_View.asp?id=257 Answer to #6: both of these tools have good comfortable handles for long hours of use. Answer to #7: This particular Makita has a good following among professionals that wax boats. It was somewhere around $200, more or less. This particular Bosch is an old model now and I don't remember what the speed details were. It wasn't terribly expensive. Use ONLY ONE tool on bottom paint because it will turn the color of the paint. I use the same extension cords and work boots year after year. In fact, I have a Sterlite plastic box with all bottom-paint supplies (except the paint) and haul-out related tools along with computer haul-out check lists, one for work items and the other for the box inventory to ensure I have everything. Oh, and the shop vac bag - make sure the weight of the paint dust (you know how heavy a gallon of bottom paint is) doesn't pull the bag off what it's attached to otherwise you'll have a real mess. Check it from time to time and empty early if necessary. The cost of a new bag is peanuts.
It looks to me that there are TWO different
philosophies going on here. The first is everyone thats talked so far about sanding their bottoms and the other is mine. I must be missing something. I have yet to sand a bottom to remove bottom paint. I buy ablative. It goes away, end of story. Sure, it's not as hard but, wow, spending a week sanding bottom paint off is not my idea of the 'meaning of life'. And what about chemical strippers? Put it on and trowel it off. That can't be as unhealthful as sanding and is legal up here on Puget Sound.
philosophies going on here. The first is everyone thats talked so far about sanding their bottoms and the other is mine. I must be missing something. I have yet to sand a bottom to remove bottom paint. I buy ablative. It goes away, end of story. Sure, it's not as hard but, wow, spending a week sanding bottom paint off is not my idea of the 'meaning of life'. And what about chemical strippers? Put it on and trowel it off. That can't be as unhealthful as sanding and is legal up here on Puget Sound.
Dual Action orbital sander
I use a D.A. on my bottom you can lock it so it grinds or unlock it so it can orbit. I use an pnuematic one But have always had access to air. I use sandpaper with self adhesive on the back. I have just bought a black and decker palm sander with hook and loop. It's just for light duty jobs though. I also have a belt sander it is my least favorite out of all my tools. Hand held planers come in handy too. Check out ebay for somee deals.
I use a D.A. on my bottom you can lock it so it grinds or unlock it so it can orbit. I use an pnuematic one But have always had access to air. I use sandpaper with self adhesive on the back. I have just bought a black and decker palm sander with hook and loop. It's just for light duty jobs though. I also have a belt sander it is my least favorite out of all my tools. Hand held planers come in handy too. Check out ebay for somee deals.
hey fred
When I hauled my boat out I had to fix some blisters and there were several different coats of bottom paint. Ablative I'm sure on the bottom. I sandblasted it off and sanded it afterwards then Put on some new ablative. Maybey because I'm landlocked and the freshwater doesn't wear it away as quick.
When I hauled my boat out I had to fix some blisters and there were several different coats of bottom paint. Ablative I'm sure on the bottom. I sandblasted it off and sanded it afterwards then Put on some new ablative. Maybey because I'm landlocked and the freshwater doesn't wear it away as quick.
Tim, I don't think that's it. I'm on salt.
Never mind. That made no sense. Let me think about it.
Never mind. That made no sense. Let me think about it.
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