Advice on the Head

[Lindgrens]

Hello--we are in the process of refurbishing a 1980 Hunter 27 we bought out of Florida. She does not currently have a holding tank--apparently the PO didn't use the head or he disposed through the thru-hull. Anyway, we have been looking at holding tanks to put under the starboard settee but we just ran across an ad in Defender for a Sealand Self-Contained Manual Head. The holding tank is directly under the head and can be plumbed to have an on deck pump out. Anyone ever used one of these? The capacity is 9 gallons which is adequate for us because we will only be spending the night on her on occasion through the average season. We are cruising with her on the North Channel this year but will have the opportunity to pump out every few days. The prospect of not having to use storage space for a holding tank is attractive, but I wonder if there are any disadvantages to this type of system. Any experience with these or opinions about it?

Thanks for any input.

Colleen and Gene Lindgren
SV Ruby Slipper
1980 Hunter 27

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

SeaLand 711-M28 "Marine Traveler" is a very nice system

Has a china bowl...uses onboard pressurized flush water--so no sea water odor or mineral buildup issues...doesn't need any power and holds about as many flushes as an 18-20 gallon tank connected to the typical marine toilet. You'll love it.

However, the tank footprint is 20 x 21...which may be too big to fit your head. So measure carefully and download and print the installation instructions from the Sealand site here: http://www.sealandtechnology.com/productpages.asp?pid=37 to make sure you also have enough space for the pumpout fitting and hose.

If it turns out that it won't, consider an "MSD" version of a 5-6 gallon portapotty..."MSD" means its designed to be permanently installed and fitted for pumpout. Thetford even makes an electric one that uses either AA or C cells, I forget which. Not as elegant the Sealand, but they hold about 50-60 flushes, which is enough last you up to a week.

 

[Hermit Scott]

How many flushes does an 18-20 gal tank connected to a marine toilet hold? Will the answer be like divding a dollar up in change, (10 dimes or 20 nickles)...20 number 2's or 40 number one's, 10 number 2's and 30 number one's?
I guess what I am asking is does it takes more hand pumps to flush solid as opposed to just a liquid deposit?

 

[TimCup]

Hermit, I'll leave the answer to Peggy...

But I gotta tell ya, reading your post has me laughing out loud. It's a serious question, but you math really got me..

cup

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

On average a manual toilet uses

About 1/2 gal of flush water per flush. A portapotty uses a pint or less. Add about 15% to that for waste. It shouldn't require more pumps to move solid waste to the tank than required for urine.

So a 20 gallon will hold about 30 flushes for most people....40 or more if you've learned how to use to dry mode to reduce flush water instead of only using it to pump the last of the water out of the bowl. The average adult uses the toilet 5x in 24 hours...so a 20 gallon tank would last a couple continuously aboard 3 days.

 

[Prime Time]

They are just ok

My dad has a similar system on his boat. It works ok for a couple for a few days. You can extend the time between pump outs using a plastic bottle for number 1.

 

[Hermit Scott]

It was already corona time by the time I got to that post.
Peggy-this would noramally be a maine sail question, but I have bronze fittings that thread into my plastic 20 gal. holding tank. Will pipe dope properly seal it or does it need pipe tape also? If it needs tape also does the dope go on both male and female threads and than tape on male threads? I ask this because I had a serious problem in the shower in my bathroom sealing a joint that was plastic threads and brass threads. It did not want to seal. I also capped all the adapter plates in my hull with pvc caps loaded with pipe dope only, I hope they don't leak. The shower was very high pressure though and the through hulls are just a couple of feet below the surface.
I am so excited that I am putting the boat back in Saturday, but one of the first thigns I have to make happen is a functioning head. Peeing in the bucket, and then brushing your teeth into in the morning isn't very romantic.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Plastic in metal is a bad combination

Because plastic and metal have widely different thermal coefficients...which is the technical term for "they contract and expand at different rates and in different amounts. That makes it just about impossible to have a leak free seal when metal is connected to plastic.

So you need to replace the bronze tank fittings with plastic fittings...and then wrap the threads with teflon tape...nothing else Do not use ANY pipe dope or any other sealant on hose connections...double clamp, with screws on opposite sides of the hose.

You prob'ly ought to replace the connection in your shower fitting too, if you don't want it to leak.

 

[Hermit Scott]

What I meant to say is, is there a way to seal bronze to plastic effectively? The shower stopped leaking when I sealed it with a rubbery sealant. I was just wondering if I had to go that far with the holding tank.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

It would be a crap shoot (no pun intended)

Your shower has stopped leaking FOR NOW...and it's gonna leak again, 'cuz no sealant last forever...it's just a matter of when. When it does, it's just water. But if your holding tank fittings leak, life aboard becomes VERY unpleasant....so why not spend about $15 for new plastic fitting and roll of teflon tape...a small price to pay to insure a good permanent seal.

It's always cheaper and easier to do it right the first time than it is to do it over.

 

[Manny]

My 1980 27' had the "Mansfield" traveler head

Which is now the Sealand Traveler. I'm 99.9% sure it came from the factory like that. The platform is just about the perfect size for it but it has nice teak blocks on the sole to match the depth of the holding tank. I had to replace it because it was seriously neglected and in bad shape. I seriously considered installing something like a Raritan head and holding tanks and hoses etc but I realized it was going to be a lot of work. I was then going to go with the new Sealand Traveler (I figured if the last one worked for about 26 years it was a safe bet) but due to finances I went the inexpensive route and replaced it with a 6 gallon MSD port-a-potty, which works well for the type of sailing we do. That 9 gallon traveler holding tank took a looong time to fill.

Here's a picture of the installation of the traveler.

Manny

 

[Lindgrens]

Thanks, Peggy, for the input. We will carefully consider our "footprint" and other measurements to make a decision. Thanks everone else for your input, also. We will have to make a decision soon as this portion of our refit is coming to the top of our "to do" list.

Gene