I bought Skipping Stone (Pearson 530) on the hard. I could check anything I wanted on the hard, and a sea trial would have added little to no more important information.
Advice On Selling My Sailboat
- Thread starter Barn-dog
- Start date
I'm sorry, but this post sends shivers down my spine. Not good ones either.
Have you ever heard of enclothed cognition?
I sincerely believe that, at a certain point, when one gives over the responsibility for one's security (safety) to outside equipment or forces, that protection can cause a self fulfilling situation.
I have not. Please explain. And no, one is not giving over safety to outside equipment. That might apply to self-driving cars. I mention only “aids” to safe piloting of the boat. Yours is like saying to use a lead line and not a depth sounder, use a chart plotter instead of half- hourly position plots on a chart. You’re seemingly telling us that going to the bow to weigh anchor in building weather with no one at the helm (and throttle) is “safer” than remaining at the helm and remotely controlling the windlass?, etc.
Sorry, you’ve lost me. Maybe you can detail which of my suggestions increases risk of loss or harm, in your experienced estimation.
I take it you’ve not equipped your boats with auto pilot?
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In this context, "enclothed cognition" means: If you carry a gun, you will tend toward finding occasion to use it, whereas if you don't, you will tend to make decisions that keep yourself out of the position of wanting one.
If I am understanding Capta, I tend to agree, somewhat, insomuch as I am not a fan of throwing technology at a problem - at least I try to fight that tendency. I liken it to how blacksmiths don't wear gloves - because it tends to make you complacent about grabbing hot things.
The list of suggestions that Gambit gave doesn't bother me, per se. It isn't how I would prioritize my advice, but I don't think there is anything wrong with any single suggestion - mostly prudent stuff, possibly overkill, depending on exact circumstances.
I will, however, take exception with the float plan suggestion. It isn't a "bad" idea, exactly. It is just that float plans don't often save lives. It is better than nothing, but just barely. The float plan is nearly worthless - the thing that is priceless is the person whom you entrust. If someone is not paying careful attention to the clock it doesn't much matter how great your float plan was. This is something I have direct and tragic experience with.
(Ironically, I am working on a technological alternative to leaving a float plan with someone. There is no end to my hypocrisy. We are planning on a launch in Q3 this year ... though the project keeps getting backburnered. It will be at floatwatch.com for anyone interested in following that project.)
If I am understanding Capta, I tend to agree, somewhat, insomuch as I am not a fan of throwing technology at a problem - at least I try to fight that tendency. I liken it to how blacksmiths don't wear gloves - because it tends to make you complacent about grabbing hot things.
The list of suggestions that Gambit gave doesn't bother me, per se. It isn't how I would prioritize my advice, but I don't think there is anything wrong with any single suggestion - mostly prudent stuff, possibly overkill, depending on exact circumstances.
I will, however, take exception with the float plan suggestion. It isn't a "bad" idea, exactly. It is just that float plans don't often save lives. It is better than nothing, but just barely. The float plan is nearly worthless - the thing that is priceless is the person whom you entrust. If someone is not paying careful attention to the clock it doesn't much matter how great your float plan was. This is something I have direct and tragic experience with.
(Ironically, I am working on a technological alternative to leaving a float plan with someone. There is no end to my hypocrisy. We are planning on a launch in Q3 this year ... though the project keeps getting backburnered. It will be at floatwatch.com for anyone interested in following that project.)
Going forward to raise the anchor w/no one on the helm is just plain safer, in my experience, than staying at the helm and pushing a button. The anchor (roughly 350#) below, came up wrapped in the middle of our chain, not on our anchor. Had no one been forward we certainly would have done serious damage, if not sunk our boat!I have not. Please explain. And no, one is not giving over safety to outside equipment. That might apply to self-driving cars. I mention only “aids” to safe piloting of the boat. Yours is like saying to use a lead line and not a depth sounder, use a chart plotter instead of half- hourly position plots on a chart. You’re seemingly telling us that going to the bow to weigh anchor in building weather with no one at the helm (and throttle) is “safer” than remaining at the helm and remotely controlling the windlass?, etc.
Sorry, you’ve lost me. Maybe you can detail which of my suggestions increases risk of loss or harm, in your experienced estimation.
I take it you’ve not equipped your boats with auto pilot?
As for all that other stuff, we both know that it's BS. Of course, much of the newer stuff is helpful, except that it allows the inexperienced and unknowledgeable to venture beyond their capabilities, sometimes with dire consequences.
Most professional ocean sailors have moved away from jack lines and harnesses for moving about the deck, because experience has proved them to be more dangerous than not.
Enclothed cognition: It basically means once the safety gear is donned, be it on a boat, in a lab, as a police officer, a diver, or a soldier, the feeling of invulnerability surges beyond reality. If you ride motorcycles, I'm sure you have felt that when you don your helmet. Yet, in reality, a helmet limits the wearer's vision, hearing and connection to the outside world. Those may not be reasons for some not to wear a helmet, but to others the enclothed cognition does not seem worth the trade off.
34' Is not at all too big for singlehanding. I had a cat that size for many years. It's actually a great size for singlehanded cruises.
That said, I downsized ~ 10 years ago, mostly because my kid was grown and I had lost the cruising bug. The F-24 is just a little easier to singlehand (not as much difference as you would guess--things happen faster), but the big difference is maintenance. Fewer systems, and everything is lighter and smaller. Cheaper too, so I worry less about justifying my habit (though I have more money than I will spend) and resale value (but I do keep it well and do upgrades).
In my case, the F-24 is a good light air boat. Also, being retired, I pick days with just the right wind!
That said, I downsized ~ 10 years ago, mostly because my kid was grown and I had lost the cruising bug. The F-24 is just a little easier to singlehand (not as much difference as you would guess--things happen faster), but the big difference is maintenance. Fewer systems, and everything is lighter and smaller. Cheaper too, so I worry less about justifying my habit (though I have more money than I will spend) and resale value (but I do keep it well and do upgrades).
In my case, the F-24 is a good light air boat. Also, being retired, I pick days with just the right wind!
Yeah, I realize the original post was about how to sell and not if. But, I agree that 34' is not too long to singlehand, but it is very well could be simply too much boat - bigger than it needs to be. Ease of singlehanding isn't strongly correlated to boat length except at the extremes - like maybe under about 20' and over about 50', roughly. As most of us know, it has mostly to do with how she's rigged.
My old Catalina 27 was never easily single-handed because she was never rigged that way. My current Fuji is 35' LOA and ketch-rigged. She is also not really rigged for singlehanding, but I could sail her jib and jigger pretty readily. I wouldn't want to dock her alone in breezy conditions - she has some ... interesting ... quirks at marina speeds.
My old Catalina 27 was never easily single-handed because she was never rigged that way. My current Fuji is 35' LOA and ketch-rigged. She is also not really rigged for singlehanding, but I could sail her jib and jigger pretty readily. I wouldn't want to dock her alone in breezy conditions - she has some ... interesting ... quirks at marina speeds.
I routinely sail my 36' boat singlehanded. Last year I sailed and motored from Annapolis to Brunswick GA single handed, including anchoring and docking.
Some, Jean-Yves Terlain for instance, might consider a 34' footer a dinghy for his boat, Vendredi 13, which he sailed solo across the Atlantic. But, in reality, just about any competent sailor could have sailed the 128-foot (39m) three-masted schooner. She had three boomed stays'ls which were pretty much self tending, and she would have been wonderfully stable in all but the most extreme weather. However, IMO her greatest feature would have been the pleasure of jumping into a bunk with crisp, clean, dry sheets any time I wished. Not the same bunk twice, but literally a different clean, fresh, dry, made up, bunk
Yeah, but think how confusing it would be having each end of the boat in different time zones.
I was hoping to save a few Thousand $$ by not having to pay the annual slip rent. When she does eventually sell, that's good money down the drain. But you and some others have brought up a good point about the cons of leaving her on the hard. Thanks for your thoughts and input.
Barn-dog
I was hoping to save the annual slip rental by keeping her on the hard. But, some say it's better to have the boat in the water , especially for first-time buyers. Thanks for your comments
Yea, I'm thinking of downsizing too. Just want to get out there and enjoy sailing. I've been cruising for ten years, now.
I put on a PFD to reduce my risk of drowning from falling overboard so now I feel safer than I actually am—a “victim” of enclothed cognition? Now I conclude that I can walk about the boat while underway w/o holding on b/c if I fall overboard I’m good for rescue, etc.
Yes it’s an absurd example but it comes within the definition offered, evidently.Use of every “aid” on the boat is backed-up with good judgement and situational awareness, including the use of windlass control from the helm station. My Quick hand-held windlass console plugged at the helm allows me to stand on the cockpit locker and view forward the chain coming up while retaining ready access to the wheel and the throttle,
A lot of argumentative nonsense here. I have one Quick console plugged at the bow and another at the helm. I can assure others here that when alone and recovering the anchor in high wind at night in an smallish iron-bound anchorage, you will wish for a recovery that permits you to remain at the helm and at the throttle, etc. You might feel safer than you actually are, but I’ll go with my gut on that.
However, there are numerous situations, far less dramatic, where a helm control would be welcomed when alone,
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For the 34-ft boat owners not equipped with a windlass at all, a sailing friend once returned to Ventura Harbor after a fearful night at Santa Cruz Is dragging toward the rocks (single--handing) trying to get the anchor up by hand to get underway. He got home, of course, but then installed an electric windlass before retuning to the island. Just one small step more to control it from the helm or bow. S*** happens. Prepare for it, but stay “frosty.”I put on a PFD to reduce my risk of drowning from falling overboard so now I feel safer than I actually am—a “victim” of enclothed cognition? Now I conclude that I can walk about the boat while underway w/o holding on b/c if I fall overboard I’m good for rescue, etc.
Use of every “aid” on the boat is backed-up with good judgement and situational awareness, including the use of windlass control from the helm station. My Quick hand-held windlass console plugged at the helm allows me to stand on the cockpit locker and view forward the chain coming up while retaining ready access to the wheel and the throttle,
A lot of argumentative nonsense here. I have one Quick console plugged at the bow and another at the helm. I can assure others here that when alone and recovering the anchor in high wind at night in an smallish iron-bound anchorage, you will wish for a recovery that permits you to remain at the helm and at the throttle, etc. You might feel safer than you actually are, but I’ll go with my gut on that.
Maybe true. But a boat looks a lot bigger on the hard, to whatever degree that helps with the sale.