I am looking at a 51ft Formosa Ketch center cockpit and would like to make it a live aboard, also would like to sail the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean, But there seems to be one problem, I have no sailboat experience. Is this going to be a difficult transition from power boating to sail boating, without killing myself or my wife or anyone that dares to follow? I love a challenge and have been involved in auto racing for all my life and hve learned that even the best preparation can lead to disaster. This is something I really want to do and am willing to listen , watch ,read be taught by anyone who is a seasoned pro, I am in good health and the ability to fabricate the rigging to be run by one or two people. But the real question is can you or any readers give me your time to tell me if I should do this or just keep dreaming. Thanks Old Crow
Advice needed
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You should probably plan
to hire a captain with documented experience on a boat that size. A sailing school will teach you the basics just as a driving school will teach you to drive a car. But going from the sailing school boats to a 51 footer would be like going from high school drivers ed. to a Tamdem axle Peterbilt in one jump.
to hire a captain with documented experience on a boat that size. A sailing school will teach you the basics just as a driving school will teach you to drive a car. But going from the sailing school boats to a 51 footer would be like going from high school drivers ed. to a Tamdem axle Peterbilt in one jump.
A great dream but a huge undertaking
A 51-footer is a huge undertaking, in addition it is a multimasted rig which requires even more knowledge and resources to keep it working properly. You really will want to work up to this. Begin with a sailing school and learn the basics. My guess is they will begin you on a boat in the low to mid 20s. That is plenty of boat for a beginner to have learn on, have fun with, and get himself into trouble, too. Get yourself more than comfortable on boats that size to the point that it is boring even. Next you'll find yourself in a larger boat, but still a single-masted rig, or a small two-masted rig. That will be a huge jump. The loads are incredible, things can happen very fast, but the boat will be more stable and can handle heavier conditions. It's a balance. But master this craft, and then I would say you're qualified to begin to take the helm, per se, of your dream boat. I'm in the same shoes you are. I'm working out of a 35 foot Columbia sloop now after sailing my ODay 22. So I give you this advice from my experience that I've had. I feel more comfortable with the boat after every trip, and I could singlehand it if I absolutely had to, though I'm not quite ready to grant myself the diploma for having mastered the boat. The willingness to take on a challenge is a mark of a good sailor, but so is prudence. It's good to be eager, confident, and willing, but they won't go very far without proper preparation. Find a good mentor and learn based on his (or her) experience, and you'll get out of this what you put into it. By no means do I wish to discourage you. You need to understand what you're in for, even more of an undertaking than what I've said, and accept that only time and effort (and money) will let you realize this dream. Good luck!
A 51-footer is a huge undertaking, in addition it is a multimasted rig which requires even more knowledge and resources to keep it working properly. You really will want to work up to this. Begin with a sailing school and learn the basics. My guess is they will begin you on a boat in the low to mid 20s. That is plenty of boat for a beginner to have learn on, have fun with, and get himself into trouble, too. Get yourself more than comfortable on boats that size to the point that it is boring even. Next you'll find yourself in a larger boat, but still a single-masted rig, or a small two-masted rig. That will be a huge jump. The loads are incredible, things can happen very fast, but the boat will be more stable and can handle heavier conditions. It's a balance. But master this craft, and then I would say you're qualified to begin to take the helm, per se, of your dream boat. I'm in the same shoes you are. I'm working out of a 35 foot Columbia sloop now after sailing my ODay 22. So I give you this advice from my experience that I've had. I feel more comfortable with the boat after every trip, and I could singlehand it if I absolutely had to, though I'm not quite ready to grant myself the diploma for having mastered the boat. The willingness to take on a challenge is a mark of a good sailor, but so is prudence. It's good to be eager, confident, and willing, but they won't go very far without proper preparation. Find a good mentor and learn based on his (or her) experience, and you'll get out of this what you put into it. By no means do I wish to discourage you. You need to understand what you're in for, even more of an undertaking than what I've said, and accept that only time and effort (and money) will let you realize this dream. Good luck!
Seamanship - Power Boat Squadron
Mr. Old Crow, ON one hand I will agree with Ross, I have had no personal experience with sailing schools they have nowadays, but I did teach a sailing class. These schools end up at the far-sighted end of the day teaching, but they, (this is heresay) are said to give extremly small portions, to keep you buying the next class & so on. I have had crew from schools, and they are motivated people, as are you) the difference is, experience is the very best teacher by far. I have always been an advocate of the USCG "Power Boat Squadron" taght by the auxiliary. This teaches basic seamanship; this is the same for p/v as for sailing vessels. You will find if a s/v is a bit more complex, many lines, winches and what not, it is in fact a boat, and with sails down and the engine on, a power vessel at that. Without some of the downfalls of a p/v: windage, poor steering at slow speeds (when you are forced to use shifters), easy turning into a slip (with keel she pivots easy for tight steering, and much safer in a hard blow whence caught out. Sailing is NOT some special science as folks like to believe, it dates back thousands of years, and anyone can learn to sail. A good navigator is indeed a different story. I agree with one of the mates here that said it is best to start with a smaller yacht, it is the best way to learn, and yeat folks d start with heavy vessels and do fine too. A Formosa, or CT is a heavy vessel, beautiful traditional yachts; I love 'em. These with the bowsprit, mizzen, rat-lines, etc can be a bit complex but it is not a gaff-rigged beamy leaky wooden planked "Spray" like the one old Joshua Slocum sailed single handed round the world on an increible circumnaviagtion without engine, windvane, crew nor $$. Read "The Annapolis Book of Seamanship" as much as possible, start out on light days, practice reefing with zero wind AT THE DOCK, and you will start getting a 'sense' for it. After all, I learned...can't be that hard...;-) Best of luck to ya.
Mr. Old Crow, ON one hand I will agree with Ross, I have had no personal experience with sailing schools they have nowadays, but I did teach a sailing class. These schools end up at the far-sighted end of the day teaching, but they, (this is heresay) are said to give extremly small portions, to keep you buying the next class & so on. I have had crew from schools, and they are motivated people, as are you) the difference is, experience is the very best teacher by far. I have always been an advocate of the USCG "Power Boat Squadron" taght by the auxiliary. This teaches basic seamanship; this is the same for p/v as for sailing vessels. You will find if a s/v is a bit more complex, many lines, winches and what not, it is in fact a boat, and with sails down and the engine on, a power vessel at that. Without some of the downfalls of a p/v: windage, poor steering at slow speeds (when you are forced to use shifters), easy turning into a slip (with keel she pivots easy for tight steering, and much safer in a hard blow whence caught out. Sailing is NOT some special science as folks like to believe, it dates back thousands of years, and anyone can learn to sail. A good navigator is indeed a different story. I agree with one of the mates here that said it is best to start with a smaller yacht, it is the best way to learn, and yeat folks d start with heavy vessels and do fine too. A Formosa, or CT is a heavy vessel, beautiful traditional yachts; I love 'em. These with the bowsprit, mizzen, rat-lines, etc can be a bit complex but it is not a gaff-rigged beamy leaky wooden planked "Spray" like the one old Joshua Slocum sailed single handed round the world on an increible circumnaviagtion without engine, windvane, crew nor $$. Read "The Annapolis Book of Seamanship" as much as possible, start out on light days, practice reefing with zero wind AT THE DOCK, and you will start getting a 'sense' for it. After all, I learned...can't be that hard...;-) Best of luck to ya.
I Know Someone Who Did
He has a sistership that is very similar, probably the same hull plug. Anyhow, he learned through friends. The boat is forgiving, the split rig makes the sail plan smaller, and she is plenty big to be stable. She has a full keel and tracks well, but doesn't turn too sharply in tight areas and backs where ever she wants. I think it's well worth it to hire a captain for two days to go over the systems, and then recruit some local sailors for plenty of day sails. OBTW, be sure to get a real good survey. Watch out for the deck since, as I recall, there is plywood under the teak and see that the steering system is all up to snuff. Really nice boat and a decent sailor I'm told. A dock mate also had one. Rick D.
He has a sistership that is very similar, probably the same hull plug. Anyhow, he learned through friends. The boat is forgiving, the split rig makes the sail plan smaller, and she is plenty big to be stable. She has a full keel and tracks well, but doesn't turn too sharply in tight areas and backs where ever she wants. I think it's well worth it to hire a captain for two days to go over the systems, and then recruit some local sailors for plenty of day sails. OBTW, be sure to get a real good survey. Watch out for the deck since, as I recall, there is plywood under the teak and see that the steering system is all up to snuff. Really nice boat and a decent sailor I'm told. A dock mate also had one. Rick D.
Get it
Old Crow - Get the boat but take the advice from the other guys that posted here. Ture - this is a big step for you but if your goin to live on the boat you will have the time to really get familiar with her. Come back to this board for advice whenever you need it - the folks here are extremely knowledgable about everything and anything you will ever need to know about both your boat and sailing - when your knowledge builds offer some back. Good luck - Rob
Old Crow - Get the boat but take the advice from the other guys that posted here. Ture - this is a big step for you but if your goin to live on the boat you will have the time to really get familiar with her. Come back to this board for advice whenever you need it - the folks here are extremely knowledgable about everything and anything you will ever need to know about both your boat and sailing - when your knowledge builds offer some back. Good luck - Rob
CT 51
Priorities: 1. Get first class hull and mechanical survey 2. Go to an ASA Sailing school (take all the levels) 3. Get some time crewing on similar vessel 4. Take a few voyages in something smaller see if you really like sailing (more work and skill is involved than with power boating) 5. Get enough practice docking. You can really tear up some s*** if you haven't got it down. Be able to back it into your slip in a 20 knot crosswind coming from either port or starbord. 6. Make sure your crew trains with you. Try not to make it an OJT experience for them. 7. Enroll in and electronics/electrical course - the wiring plan on some CT 51s can sometimes be a challenge. 8. Learn from Clint E. A man needs to know his limitations---know yours and understand the consequences for having them. 9. Consider buying somethin smaller to learn to sail on.My largest boat was 45' but what I learned campaigning, snipes, flying dutchman,y-fliers, solings, and stars really enhanced my sailing experience. 10. Leave your ego at home -- make the safety of your crew, your boat, and the boats you pass along the way your first priority.
Priorities: 1. Get first class hull and mechanical survey 2. Go to an ASA Sailing school (take all the levels) 3. Get some time crewing on similar vessel 4. Take a few voyages in something smaller see if you really like sailing (more work and skill is involved than with power boating) 5. Get enough practice docking. You can really tear up some s*** if you haven't got it down. Be able to back it into your slip in a 20 knot crosswind coming from either port or starbord. 6. Make sure your crew trains with you. Try not to make it an OJT experience for them. 7. Enroll in and electronics/electrical course - the wiring plan on some CT 51s can sometimes be a challenge. 8. Learn from Clint E. A man needs to know his limitations---know yours and understand the consequences for having them. 9. Consider buying somethin smaller to learn to sail on.My largest boat was 45' but what I learned campaigning, snipes, flying dutchman,y-fliers, solings, and stars really enhanced my sailing experience. 10. Leave your ego at home -- make the safety of your crew, your boat, and the boats you pass along the way your first priority.
Rent the movie "Capt/ Ron"
I think the old junker in "Captain Ron" was a Formosa. You should watch it three times and then find Ron for fun!
I think the old junker in "Captain Ron" was a Formosa. You should watch it three times and then find Ron for fun!
advise - i did what you want to do
Old Crow - I think I know where you are and where you want to go. In my mid 50s i gave up mountain climbing and skiing and took up sailing. the biggest thing i had on the water before that was a 17" canoe that i took on a 2 week waterwater trip to james bay. First, i did some studying but not much and then went to a ASA sailing school for their 1st class. It was a basic sailing class and the instructor was great. And verses what Cap'n Ron above says, ASA has a dedicated program and method to teach you how to sail. I chartered to be sure i leaned something. I then took 2 additional ASA courses on living aboard and coastal cruising. as a power boater my assumption is that you can navigate and know the rules of the road. Again very enlightening and the instructor was excellent. the decision was then made to go all the way. I did a lot of research on boats and attended a lot of boat shows. I met a broker who was not only interested in sell me a boat but also teach me about sailboats, what makes them different. verses the above advise my first purchase was a new 40' boat. I just did not think i had the time to buy a smaller boat learn to sail that and then sell it and buy another. The 40' was done on purpose as that is about as big as I thought i could single hand or sail with 2. I picked her up after she went to the Annapolis boat show as a show boat and brought her to miami - how we got here only God knows for sure. I sail her probably 4 weekends out of 5. taken her to the bahamas and 2 days out got hit by lightening and sailed home with no electrical power and crossed the gulf stream in 7' seas. just got back from key west - do i know how to sail - not really but the more the canvas flys the more i learn and i will be a student the rest of my life. good luck and as paul cayard said: "I would not want to be sitting behind some desk somewhere criticizing people who are willing to "dig deep" to cross into new territory. As far as I can remember, there aren't a lot of points of land or holidays named after people who sat at home and criticized Christopher Columbus." Paul Cayard Pirates of the Caribbean Good luck and fair winds and following seas chuck and soulmates
Old Crow - I think I know where you are and where you want to go. In my mid 50s i gave up mountain climbing and skiing and took up sailing. the biggest thing i had on the water before that was a 17" canoe that i took on a 2 week waterwater trip to james bay. First, i did some studying but not much and then went to a ASA sailing school for their 1st class. It was a basic sailing class and the instructor was great. And verses what Cap'n Ron above says, ASA has a dedicated program and method to teach you how to sail. I chartered to be sure i leaned something. I then took 2 additional ASA courses on living aboard and coastal cruising. as a power boater my assumption is that you can navigate and know the rules of the road. Again very enlightening and the instructor was excellent. the decision was then made to go all the way. I did a lot of research on boats and attended a lot of boat shows. I met a broker who was not only interested in sell me a boat but also teach me about sailboats, what makes them different. verses the above advise my first purchase was a new 40' boat. I just did not think i had the time to buy a smaller boat learn to sail that and then sell it and buy another. The 40' was done on purpose as that is about as big as I thought i could single hand or sail with 2. I picked her up after she went to the Annapolis boat show as a show boat and brought her to miami - how we got here only God knows for sure. I sail her probably 4 weekends out of 5. taken her to the bahamas and 2 days out got hit by lightening and sailed home with no electrical power and crossed the gulf stream in 7' seas. just got back from key west - do i know how to sail - not really but the more the canvas flys the more i learn and i will be a student the rest of my life. good luck and as paul cayard said: "I would not want to be sitting behind some desk somewhere criticizing people who are willing to "dig deep" to cross into new territory. As far as I can remember, there aren't a lot of points of land or holidays named after people who sat at home and criticized Christopher Columbus." Paul Cayard Pirates of the Caribbean Good luck and fair winds and following seas chuck and soulmates
51' formosa
Old Crow - forgot one thing - a fellow at our marina was a firefighter in Minn. and retired and bought a 51' Formosa and sailed to Fiji last august. He now lives there. He did a little sailing before he bought it as he chartered a variety of vessels but his crew was his family, wife, 18yo daughter, 14 yo son, and 25 yo nephew. they did sail almost 3+ days a week to get to know the boat for a few months before they left. it can be done. chuck and soulmates
Old Crow - forgot one thing - a fellow at our marina was a firefighter in Minn. and retired and bought a 51' Formosa and sailed to Fiji last august. He now lives there. He did a little sailing before he bought it as he chartered a variety of vessels but his crew was his family, wife, 18yo daughter, 14 yo son, and 25 yo nephew. they did sail almost 3+ days a week to get to know the boat for a few months before they left. it can be done. chuck and soulmates
Good Luck
Old Crow, I too have made the leap from power to sail. 2 years ago I bought a 1983 Hans Christian in Florida, and sailed on the outside all the way to the potomac river (off the Chesapeake). I plan on living aboard soon. The most important thing is a good survey by a knowlegeable sailor. After talking the results over with the surveyor, nothing will replace hands on learning. Good luck.
Old Crow, I too have made the leap from power to sail. 2 years ago I bought a 1983 Hans Christian in Florida, and sailed on the outside all the way to the potomac river (off the Chesapeake). I plan on living aboard soon. The most important thing is a good survey by a knowlegeable sailor. After talking the results over with the surveyor, nothing will replace hands on learning. Good luck.
I envy you...
Sounds like you have the basic knowledge of Basic Seamenship. Now, go and get some lessons on how to handle the sails. But also remember, a sailboat does not turn like a power boat, and I'm sure you already know that. Man, I truly envy you. Have a great time.
Sounds like you have the basic knowledge of Basic Seamenship. Now, go and get some lessons on how to handle the sails. But also remember, a sailboat does not turn like a power boat, and I'm sure you already know that. Man, I truly envy you. Have a great time.
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