Advice for an Aspiring Live-Aboard Sailor

[Pearse]

Hello!

I do not have much experience sailing, but having gone out about 10 times, I am in love with it. I am graduating University in the fall, have stable income, and not a lot of possessions: perfect opportunity to live-aboard. I think I would love the lifestyle, and now is a convenient time to see.

I'll try to cut to the chase here... I have been doing research, but wanted to hear advice first-hand for a first-time live-aboard. Here are some of my questions/statements:

1. What are good live-aboard boats? I live in the Northern Virginia area, looking at Marinas from Alexandria-DC-Maryland. Most of my sailing will be day trips around the Chesapeake, with potential to go down to the Virginia Beach/Hampton area, but no plan to go further. I am looking at around 30-35ft.

2. Most times I will be in port, so I don't require a luxurious head (only when nature calls over a day or two max), but would likely require heating and cooling. I am reading a lot about diesel heaters, but that sounds inefficient to me over long term use... What's better: diesel or electric? I would definitely need some form of refrigeration and kitchen space... Any suggestions for that?

3. What are the biggest considerations I should make when shopping? How much of it can I do myself and how much of it should I expect covered already? ie. If I find a good boat with no AC, can I add that later affordably with little heartache? I don't want to ruin the experience by having a fixer-upper, but budget is a major consideration.

4. I've noticed several boats I've looked at are older. Is there a cut-off date that I should generally try to avoid? I know insurance influences that too... Should I treat it case by case? I would imagine older boats have seen way more deterioration... Is this something I should avoid or can they still be reliable?

I've been doing my research, reading through books and websites, but ultimately I think the best advice comes from interaction... Please feel free to add other considerations, but ultimately I am looking for specific boat models, systems, etc, to look in to further. Most informational sites I've found give general solutions but I need a little more specific advice. Also, please let me know if I'm not asking the right questions.

Thanks!

Pearse

 

[rgranger]

I'm not a live-aboard but I think I can help with the age question..... You will get a better value if you find an older boat that has been well maintained and updated than a newer boat that will require upgrades. Fiberglass does not deteriorate so age is not as important as upkeep.

Just some free advice and worth every penny.

 

[Sumner]

..... I don't want to ruin the experience by having a fixer-upper, but budget is a major consideration......

Would help to know roughly what your budget is for the boat and repairs/mods to fit it to your needs. Also do you have any tools and any fabrication and/or repair skills at this point.

We live on the boat in the yard in Florida and get by with electric blanket and electric space heater in 40 degree temps. If everyone else in the yard is doing the same voltage can go down to 100 volts and the space heater is ineffective so then use a small propane heater (bottle type). It sits outside and only use it if we are up. Of course weather is going to be colder where your are.

In the marina you could probably get by with a dorm type 110v fridge and with a cheaper window type air conditioner from Walmart. If you start taking longer trips you will want an efficient 12 volt compressor fridge. I converted to that with our boat...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-inside-mods/inside-index.html

.... and it works well in the yard also.

Older boats can be still very sound and require different amounts of work depending on what previous owners have done. If you need to have any work done by you are someone else I'd budget at least 30%-40% more than you think it will cost. Newer boats aren't likely to need as much work but about any boat will need something done to it. Again what is your budget for the boat and mods?

Good luck,

Sumner
=============================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[Gunni]

Oh impetuous youth! Anyplace in the DC/Alexandria area will put you WAY up a twisty river far from the Chesapeake, but you knew that because you looked at a chart! Forget that. Viable locations will be in Ann Arundel County Maryland, a longish commute to NoVA. Boat ownership is an onerous thing, way worse than taking care of a lawn and keeping the shingles in place. Put your money into a home on the dirt and join SailTime in Annapolis. You will be in the scene, walking the docks, meeting owners, and see what works and what doesn't. Since you won't be working on your own boat you will have plenty of time to meet those lonely ladies whose boy is working on his boat.

 

[Sumner]

..... Put your money into a home on the dirt and join SailTime in Annapolis. ....

Not bad advice at this point. You would get in lots of sailing and also become a lot more knowledgeable about what would work for you.

Another thing to consider is that if you are full time on a boat cruising you are pretty much ready to sail at a moments notice. Living on the boat in a yard or marina you get things all scattered around to the point that you wouldn't want to be sailing the boat like that and would have to take time to put things away first. Some liveaboards in marina's hardly ever leave the dock because the boat becomes a home and not really a boat anymore ,

Sumner
===========================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[kappykaplan]

Living on the boat in a yard or marina you get things all scattered around to the point that you wouldn't want to be sailing the boat like that and would have to take time to put things away first.

+1

 

[KD3PC]

Gunni has summed it up...many years back I lived aboard a Cal 25 at Casa Rio in MD, and loved it.

However, and a big however...was that it was very uncomfortable 10 months a year and trying to look professional for my job was challenging...everything was damp, wrinkled and so on. This was almost 40 years ago. And traffic and a marina that will allow liveaboards will make it all but impossible to do now.

IF you make good money and can work non-traditional hours it can be done and is tons of fun. Getting a boat with headroom, HVAC and a few comforts would be foremost on the list.

Back then, I think I made it until mid December before scurrying back to Scaggsville MD to an apartment. Kept the boat for weekends and such..

YMMV

btw we just finished a 5 year stint living aboard a P-42 on the northern neck of VA, and yes there are a few that commute to DC every day. So it can be done.

 

[LuzSD]

+1

+2

 

[Stu Jackson]

reading through books and websites,

Good interactive website for your questions:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...us-island-packet-31-a-172247.html#post2206710

This is one of hundreds of responses to your questions.

Good luck.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Sailing for fun and learning to sail and living aboard a boat in a slip are not exactly "interchangeable"; they are two distinctly different things which might overlap from time to time. Folks living aboard their sailboats at a marina do not go sailing nearly as much as those who own a boat and live ashore. People often (but not always) choose to live aboard a boat b/c they cannot afford to live ashore in a house and keep a boat in a slip too. You're tied up in romantic notions which will likely not pan out the way you envision; but, if you insist on going ahead, get the largest, newest boat that you can afford to keep up and get a good price on it. Nevertheless in the end you're essentially a renter; thus, not building any future equity that owning real estate (home ashore) gives you.

 

[Gunni]

Seems like a good place to add the boat owners refrain:
Q: What is a boat?
A: A hole in the water that you fill with money.

I did live aboard for a while on an OPB. Other. Person's. Boat.

 

[Pearse]

Wow. First of all, thank you all very much for your input. I'm blown away at the responses, and timeliness.

My hard budget is $50,000 max. I would prefer to spend around $30,000, but I was thrown off when I found several boats for as low as $10,000. From what I've seen with cars, more times than not, a much lower price than expected usually means a proportional loss in quality. I've been given advice to look at Pearson (the name is meant to be, almost).

I have two options: 1. live in a sailboat. Pros - Great Experience. Cons - lots... 2. Buy an apartment. Pros - Gain equity. Cons - NoVA prices are so high it is affordable to live in a sailboat in comparison (monthly, not including additional maintenance of course!)

@Sumner - I don't have tools or fab experience on boats, however, I am an electrical engineer with woodworking experience and some basic home repair experience. I've done basic maintenance and repair on refridgerators, HVAC, electrical, and diesel engines. The stuff like scraping barnacles, replacing zincs, repairing/replacing sails, etc. is the stuff I'm worried about... I won't mind initially doing some mods, but don't want to spend every weekend for a couple months building from scratch!

I've heard of the horrors of getting stuck in the slip, and it would take some determination to stow everything properly and push off. I have had some very unfortunate living situations (college budget...), however, and as far as the insanity of the lifestyle, I believe anything from those points are a step up! Everything I own is in a 10'x13' apartment room. I lived last summer in a house with no AC and no running water for two weeks (my landlord was way out of line). But you're right, I could get lazy and not actually go sailing. Wouldn't that be a shame?

@KD3PC - I've done my research on liveaboard marinas in the area... They exist! I do make decent money, but not enough for a boat and an apartment. I have to choose. Do you know of any specific makes or models cater to your mentioned comforts?

Long story short, I completely understand the cons of living-aboard. Is it stupid? Or just difficult? I thought about hiking the Appalachian Trail... I like difficult.

Thanks again for all the input!

Pearse

 

[Head Sail]

The most valuable money you will ever have is the money you save and invest when you are young. Real estate appreciates, sailboats depreciate. Sailboats are a toy for those with resources to mess with. You would be better off putting your resources into a fixer upper house and apply your talents there to reap the benefits of appreciation. Once you feel financially comfortable with home ownership, get yourself sailboat. Sure there are those that live in a sailboat full time, but I would not want to be one of them as would most people. The heating is uneven, space, limited, access cumbersome, weather usually nastier by the water. On the other hand, your young, you could put up with anything for a while.

 

[31seahorse]

Welcome Pearse,
The title Live-Aboard Sailor could easily be an oxymoron (sp?). The number of "live-aboard" boats that regularly go sailing is probably small. Few people take their "home" out sailing due to the packing and stowing of items as others have mentioned. As an experiment just sit on a covered porch during a rainstorm and judge how comfortable you would be sleeping there for the night. Unless you are using the live-aboard boat to go interesting places you might find the negatives overpower the positives. Just my impression of the situation.

RE: boats to live on. Morgan Out Island models, many Pearson models (ie 365), Catalina models 34 or 36, O'day 34 or larger.

 

[rgranger]

Hmmmm.... have you thought about a catamaran? Maybe a Gemini 3000 or 3200

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Lived aboard a 35 foot trimaran for 3 years. Cruised a part of the time but worked a full time job ( shirt and tie job) as did my wife. Took a kid to class every day too

Lived aboard and cruised full time for almost 3 years on a 25 footer- my current boat

I'm now 76

I'd say, if that's what you want to do, go for it. You only go around once and there's no rewind or replay

 

[rgranger]

I'm thinking Cat because

1. more room
2. shoal draft for the Chesapeake Bay

 

[shemandr]

I agree with Head Sail in that the money you can get into a growing asset at a young age will have 50 or more years to appreciate in value. So I don't buy into the notion that youth can take more risks because they can afford to lose it. They can't.
You'll likely need more than a heat pump for winter. As I understand it a typical marine air conditioner/heater will not heat effectively if the water temperature is under 50 degrees. You will need a boat with good ACCESSIBLE storage. Otherwise the cabin will become a nest and you'll spend your time looking for stuff. That gets old pretty fast.
A good head system is important. If there is snow the docks become treacherous and a REAL danger. Falling in the water in winter, for that 4am pee, with few people around can be ball gameous. It does snow in the DC area.
A friend of mine and girl friend lived a winter on their Ranger 26 in Annapolis and thought it was "Fun." So different strokes. It could be difficult. It's not Darwin type stupid.
There was a guy who posted on this forum and who lived aboard in Maine. His name is on the tip of my tongue. He build a cover that was clear so that he got solar heat. He was quite comfortable. It's in the achieves.

 

[All U Get]

There was a guy who posted on this forum and who lived aboard in Maine. His name is on the tip of my tongue. He build a cover that was clear so that he got solar heat. He was quite comfortable. It's in the achieves.

Tim R used to have his boat at DiMillo's in Portland. There are some folks that live aboard through the winter in Maine. It is a highly skilled art.

All U Get

 

[Kings Gambit]

Lived aboard a 35 foot trimaran for 3 years. Cruised a part of the time but worked a full time job ( shirt and tie job) as did my wife. Took a kid to class every day too

Lived aboard and cruised full time for almost 3 years on a 25 footer- my current boat

I'm now 76

I'd say, if that's what you want to do, go for it. You only go around once and there's no rewind or replay

Yeah, what about the other 76-18-6 = 52 years?; that's enough time for two careers right there. Sorry, a near octogenarian who spent not even six whole years living aboard does not strike me as the most credible testament as to its desirability.