I'm new to the site, and fairly new to sailing. Although I have been boating since I was a little kid. I've owned a few different power boats, and still own a Grady white. But I have also sailed a little. We had a sunfish for a while as a teenager, and I've rented Hobie cats on vacation. We always had a blast. I'm doing some reading, and plan to eventually take some courses. (would love to be able to rent a bare boat for vacation at some point in the future.) So here's what I need. A boat I can learn on is most important. Second, It's me, my wife and two kids. (small is relative I guess). Third the bays I sail are not all deep water, and the backwater where I will be launching is down right shallow, figure 3ft at low tides. I have other options for launch, but I would prefer to launch where the house is. I'll also be looking for a project boat to keep the initial cost down. I've done plenty of wood and fiberglass work on power boats I've owned, including an entire transom replacement. Hopefully I'm not looking for a pink unicorn or something, but if I am I'll have to make concessions somewhere. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Advice for a newbie on sailboat type
- Thread starter jaybrown
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Hi. Welcome! I found my 1988 Mac26D ($3500) with searchtempest.com. It searches all of craigslist.
Looks like there are 8 right now between $4500 and $8200. PM me and I'll tell you what the guy in Holland Michigan would let his go for last Oct.
Check this site (sailboatdata.com) for any data like draft, beam, displacement, etc.
There are a bunch of other sailboat for sale sites including E-bay. If you look hard enough you will find that people are almost giving boats away!
This site is a wealth of info for anything sailing/sailboat related. Even pink unicorns! I think.
Looks like there are 8 right now between $4500 and $8200. PM me and I'll tell you what the guy in Holland Michigan would let his go for last Oct.
Check this site (sailboatdata.com) for any data like draft, beam, displacement, etc.
There are a bunch of other sailboat for sale sites including E-bay. If you look hard enough you will find that people are almost giving boats away!
This site is a wealth of info for anything sailing/sailboat related. Even pink unicorns! I think.
Suggest contacting sailboat clubs about getting qualified to sail their club boats for a modest price. That is what I did in the Chesapeake By while living in PA and NJ. It was very economical. Then you can try different boats to see what you might ultimately like to own or just continue with the club boats and avoid the cost of ownership. There are many project boats out there so look for the best deal so you can minimize $$$. Good luck.
Catalina 25, swing keel, needs a good sized truck to tow if you're trailer sailing. Catalina 22 meets your criteria, but to small for a family described unless ONLY daysailing.
will be mostly daysailing for now. I don't mind upgrading in a few years. Thats part of the reason I'm looking on the project end of the price scale. I would be great if my wife and I could spend a weekend out on the water, but with two young kids, it's not likely to happen to often. I've seen a few catalina's for sale locally, I'll have to take a look. I also found a rhodes 22 but it looks pretty beat up.
I will second the Catalina 22. The boat was introduced in the late 70's and is still in production. It's got all the sail controls, so as you pick up sail trim skills you can actually use them. Easy to rig and trailer. Our club used them as training boats for the second tier of skill, just up from the 14' beginner boats.
(OK, back in production as the Catalina 22 Sport)
(OK, back in production as the Catalina 22 Sport)
I third the Cat22 swing keel.... good solid boat with excellent resale value, great factory support and a very large owner group. www.catalina22.org besides the daysailing aspect, Cat22 have a strong racing network.
Thanks for the replies all. I assume there is a catalina section of this forum, I think I'll head over and take a look.
Every time I see a recommendation for the C-22 I write the same thing. I owned and raced a Catalina 22. A dockmate had a Hunter 22. His boat was faster, had a much nicer interior layout, and the sail controls were better. It is also a swing keel boat.
http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_album&Itemid=278&catid=51&page=model .
I'd be concerned about your shallow waters. Don't try to sail with the keel anything but all the way down. I suppose it might be safe enough to motor into deeper water with the keel only partially dropped.
http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_album&Itemid=278&catid=51&page=model .
I'd be concerned about your shallow waters. Don't try to sail with the keel anything but all the way down. I suppose it might be safe enough to motor into deeper water with the keel only partially dropped.
Ok. I've seen hunters as well. I'll put them on my look see list. As far as shallow water goes. The development is on a backwater of the Rehobeth Bay. Once you get into the bay it probably averages 6' -8'. The only other thing we like to do is beach at times for lunch and to let the kids get off the boat for a while.
I have sailed a Catalina 22' and an O'Day 23.5' (water ballast). I liked them both. Here are two more boats to put on your list.... I've owned three MacGregors and presently sail a Mac. V2-22. I love mine. The Mac V21 will probably be too small for a family of 4 if you plan on any overnight adventures on the boat. The V2-22 is quite a bit larger. I'm also a big fan of the Rhodes 22'. I have chartered a Rhodes before and I presently own a project Rhodes that will hopefully see the water by Fall. The Rhodes 22' is the largest interior 22' boat I have every encountered. Very roomy, with a huge cockpit that also converts into a birth (with boom tent).
Happy hunting.
Happy hunting.
Good suggestions. I have a Mac 25 which is also roomy, quite forgiving and lots are available at good prices.
Thanks, my search is getting pretty large. Thats a good thing. These are all boats I've seen in passing before. How big should I go for a first sail boat. I only sort of count the sunfish and hobie cats. I routinely run my dads 26ft pontoon. (talk about unresponsive) I've boated from maine to Key West and one trip out from St. Thomas. All in my own power boats or rentals. So I'm comfortable on the water. Towing is not an issue as the boat would not be leaving the development very often. Actually I don't plan for it to ever leave.....atleast by road! But I will have to be able to launch into shallow water, although I'm an old hand there as well. Theres another question, how much water will some of these boats float in with the keel up? That could be important, although I can work around it if need be. There is a deep water ramp not far from the house.
The catalinas and macgregors can float on a heavy dew. The keel fully retracts on these. Even if you do ground them, you can just step out and push off. I'm not sure about the O'Days underbody but that should be easy to find out. The Rhodes has a partial permanent keel with a swing keel embedded. So it draws about 2' with the keel up.
You asked how large you should go... Well that is really a question off $$$. I went the bigger boat route and then scaled back down. The larger boat was a pain to tow and set up and I do like taking my boat to different places. If you are CERTAIN you won't catch the wanderlust bug then go as big as you comfortably can ($). But I'd think on it a while. I really do enjoy taking my boat to different cruising grounds.
Bigger boats require bigger budgets, are harder to haul out to work on etc. It has been my observation that the smaller the boat the more time you spend sailing and the less you spend fixing stuff. On the other hand you want it to be large enougth to suite your uses.
Some things to think about....I also have daughters... so don't ignore the importance of the head. Girls don't like to pee off the transom... and when they become teenagers the grow larger and the V-birth no longer becomes a comfy place to stash a couple of kids for the night. My V-birth is exclusively stowage these days. Sailbags and duffel bags go in the V-birth... my teenage girls love sailing... but they also carry a lot of STUFF with them. So look at storage as well.
And don't sell yourself short on the sunfish experience. Those are the best training boats because they are unforgiving. If you can sail a sunfish, you can sail ... just about anything.
Fair winds and happy hunting.
You asked how large you should go... Well that is really a question off $$$. I went the bigger boat route and then scaled back down. The larger boat was a pain to tow and set up and I do like taking my boat to different places. If you are CERTAIN you won't catch the wanderlust bug then go as big as you comfortably can ($). But I'd think on it a while. I really do enjoy taking my boat to different cruising grounds.
Bigger boats require bigger budgets, are harder to haul out to work on etc. It has been my observation that the smaller the boat the more time you spend sailing and the less you spend fixing stuff. On the other hand you want it to be large enougth to suite your uses.
Some things to think about....I also have daughters... so don't ignore the importance of the head. Girls don't like to pee off the transom... and when they become teenagers the grow larger and the V-birth no longer becomes a comfy place to stash a couple of kids for the night. My V-birth is exclusively stowage these days. Sailbags and duffel bags go in the V-birth... my teenage girls love sailing... but they also carry a lot of STUFF with them. So look at storage as well.
And don't sell yourself short on the sunfish experience. Those are the best training boats because they are unforgiving. If you can sail a sunfish, you can sail ... just about anything.
Fair winds and happy hunting.
Good to know about the sunfish experience, and the drafts of the different boats. Thats give me considerable more confidence. My son is 6 and my daughter 3 so I have a few years till teenage. Although I'm sure it will go quick. They both love boating. They've been bugging me for the last few weeks about when were going to the beach, or on a boat ride.
Hey Jay Brown
I thought of one other thing you should think about when you go boat shopping. If you are looking at a 20 to 30 year old boat, you should consider the boat as being FREE and what you are actually buying is the motor, sails and trailer. The boat market is strange. You can often find a cosmetically challenged boat on a nice trailer, with decent sails and a working motor for a great price. But find a nice looking boat without a motor, trailer and sails and you will go spending another $8000 before you see water. It seems a trailer is worth more WITHOUT a boat sitting on it.
Also, don't be afraid of boats from the '70s if the sails, rigging etc are in decent shape. OSHA didn't step into the boat biz until the late '70s so boats from the '80s on have thinner fiberglass and are stiffened with wooden core. The cores rot over time and can cause problems. The 1970's boat may look bad but you cut out some new bulkheads and slap on a coat of paint .... and because they look bad, you get a great price.
Here's something to get you started....
http://delaware.craigslist.org/boa/2851222741.html
http://delaware.craigslist.org/boa/2826853657.html
http://delaware.craigslist.org/boa/2820478568.html
I thought of one other thing you should think about when you go boat shopping. If you are looking at a 20 to 30 year old boat, you should consider the boat as being FREE and what you are actually buying is the motor, sails and trailer. The boat market is strange. You can often find a cosmetically challenged boat on a nice trailer, with decent sails and a working motor for a great price. But find a nice looking boat without a motor, trailer and sails and you will go spending another $8000 before you see water. It seems a trailer is worth more WITHOUT a boat sitting on it.
Also, don't be afraid of boats from the '70s if the sails, rigging etc are in decent shape. OSHA didn't step into the boat biz until the late '70s so boats from the '80s on have thinner fiberglass and are stiffened with wooden core. The cores rot over time and can cause problems. The 1970's boat may look bad but you cut out some new bulkheads and slap on a coat of paint .... and because they look bad, you get a great price.
Here's something to get you started....
http://delaware.craigslist.org/boa/2851222741.html
http://delaware.craigslist.org/boa/2826853657.html
http://delaware.craigslist.org/boa/2820478568.html
I get the impression that as a long time power boater you plan on keeping the sailboat on a trailer and launching it for every outing. I think I ought to warn you that raising and lowering the mast for every outing gets real old quick. The wives specially loose interest when they are called to help and deal with the mast raising. The overall result is that the boat gets taken out less and less. A sailboat is best enjoyed when it is kept fully rigged and ready on the water at a mooring or a marina. Just think of a sunset cruise after work for just an hour. If you decide to trailer the boat you will be limited on the size and type of boat. You will need a swing keel or waterballasted boat in the 23' range as to have a mast light enough to raise and lower manually. If you get such a boat and latter decide you want to keep it in the water you have a boat with design limitations. On the other hand if you decide from the start you will keep the boat in the water you may go to a full keel vesel of 27' to 30' for about the same amount of money. The only advantage I see for a trailerable boat is the fact that it can be moved quickly to sail in different and distant venues. To me it does not make sense to have a trailerable only to use the boat in the home area. I know a sailor that has paid much more in slip fees than he originally paid for the boat but he has gotten his money's worth in enjoyment over the years. If trailering is the only way to fit sailing into your current budget then so be it but look forward to in the future get a boat to keep in the water.
Hello, I have a Mac 22 and have it on a trailer in key largo ready rigged and just hook up and launch. It draws about a foot with the keel up and we try to go to use it every weekend. We also go on overnights and I've been able to accommodate 3 adult but I can see 4 if they were kids. Ready rigged is the way to go because we did the breaking down and trailering back home and that got OLD quick. I upgraded to a 26m Mac and got rid of it because it wasn't ideal for us,,too much freeboard and the boat didn't track as I expected specially when it was windy,,sorry I got off topic. Oh Cat 22 draws a little more because the keel overhangs about 6 more inches but both are great boats. Good luck and I hope you find your boat soon.
Check oy the hunter 23.5, water ballast with a easy to use mast raising system that one person can use. We have a family of four with a 5yo and a 6mo and its perfect. It floats in 18" with centerboard raised and tows nicely if and when you decide to go elsewher. Only thing it needs is an air conditioner in this alabama heat but I am working on that.
Good luck
Good luck
Although I agree with the above recomendations, don`t ignore Precision 18, 21, or 23 if you come across one. My wife and I are rookies and have had a blast learning on P18 I bought for 3grand, might have 5 in it by now but didn`t have too, my choice. The boat draws 18" board up and we are planning sailing in Delaware north of Rt54 Bridge this summmer.If you know anything about that water, I`wouldn`t mind some Iinfo.
It is too small for family camping, but if you are just daysailing near home with kids, small cabin and porta potti are essential.
I also fully agree with leave it rigged up on the trailer if possible. That made the difference between 8-10 rides the first summer and 29 rides last summer. (I saved and counted float plans last summer).
Precisions are still in Production in Fla., parts are available.
Welcome, you will have a lot of fun. Dave
It is too small for family camping, but if you are just daysailing near home with kids, small cabin and porta potti are essential.
I also fully agree with leave it rigged up on the trailer if possible. That made the difference between 8-10 rides the first summer and 29 rides last summer. (I saved and counted float plans last summer).
Precisions are still in Production in Fla., parts are available.
Welcome, you will have a lot of fun. Dave
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