Advice and feedback for this summer's work

[shipwreck]

Hello! This is my second year owning a 1979 Catalina 27. The boat needed some work when I bought it, and instead of working on it we've mostly been sailing! I live on Kootenay Lake so it's not too risky to put repairs on the back burner but the time has certainly come to take care of a few fairly major details.

I am interested in initiating discussion on these issues:

• The starboard cap shroud chainplate is pulling through it's bulkhead. It's a good thing the bolts keep the chainplate from being pulled through... Are there any kits or parts available for this fix?

• Both aft lower shroud chainplates are also compromised, although they dont look original - are there any recommended replacement parts for these?

• The forestay chainplate is pretty much blown out. Catalina Direct provides a stem fitting with rollers, are there any other options?

• It looks as though the cabintop is sunken around the base of the mast. There is a depression but it's not spongy nor does it make strange sounds when tapped, the compression post seems to be in good shape, and the interior of the cabintop isn't at all depressed. I plan on dropping the mast and investigating further but I was wondering if anyone else has seen this? What I think happened is a previous owner tried to get more life out of the shrouds by blocking up the mast? Can't quite figure out why - I checked the shroud with a loos and there is still threads to take up slack... I was thinking Catalina Direct's Mast Step would be a good idea?

• I am in dire need of a new main sheet block and traveler. Any recommendations?

• The bit of hardware that fastens the main sheet to the end of the boom - where can I find a new and improved one of those?

• I dont know if my boat is a standard or tall rig? An ancient Bill of Sale says hull # 4716 - does that mean anything?

I attached relevant photos. Advice and beration greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time!

 

[centerline]

the questions you pose with what is shown in the photos would lead one to believe there is more wrong with the boat than a simple "mast lift" to get more "life" out of the rigging....

there is no gentle way of putting it, and without wanting to offend you or denounce your boat in any way, there are a few things that must be said to even begin the dialog to answering your questions.

the whole scene as i see it is the deck has a rotted core under the mast, and probably more.
due to this, the PO tried to tighten his rigging by blocking under the mast to bring it to the proper elevation.

the "life" of the rigging is determined by factors other than blocking or deck rot. these will have no effect on rigging life one way or another.

the chain plates and stem head fitting being pulled loose is another strong indicator that the boat was severely neglected and probable abused.

and if you think the deck under the mast is ok and is not an issue, then it would be a good idea to get a second opinion from someone local who knows sailboats. preferably a qualified rigger.

all these issues can be repaired, but you must get a good assessment of the real damage and weigh out the the time and cost of the project.... but no matter what you decide to do with the boat, it doesnt sound like its a safe boat to be sailing while in its present condition. and by that i mean, if a chain plate should pull loose and the mast comes down, it could be a life threatening event...

hopefully others may chime in with suggestions that are more uplifting for you

 

[Chief RA]

Its not possible for us to properly evaluate this boat without seeing it. Centerline is correct: DO NOT SAIL THIS BOAT! With lots of work it probably could be saved but do get a proper assessmentby a knowledgable person. Good Luck! Chief

 

[Stu Jackson]

Catalina 27

The chainplate issue is one that the Catalina 27 International Association has discussed. I believe an improved chainplate assembly is available at Catalina Direct. If you don't know what these two groups are, you should get to know them.

Garhauer is a company that makes the blocks & tackles for OEM Catalina gear. They, too, are a company you should become familiar with.

You could also Google Catalina 27 chainplates.

 

[The Garbone]

At a minimum a new starboard bulkhead is in order.

What does the compression block in the forward part of the bilge look like?

 

[mm2347]

Yes, pay a pro to help lay out a plan. It looks like your getting close to loosing your mast. Be sure to look closely at the floor-compression post. Often this area is poorly or even unsupported and will sage under load. Everything needs to be looked at closely.
With a plan you'll have the big picture of $$$ and labor. You might choose to sell and replace w/ the many boats on the market. Of course you've now have learned that a 2nd knowable pro is well worth the money. More often than not an experienced repair tech is the way to go. I just read the quote "Wisdom is your reward for surviving your mistakes". Its money saved to hire a pro. before jumping in.

 

[shipwreck]

I should have mentioned in my initial post: I am a carpenter by trade and the boat is docked at my house where I have a commercial wood shop and a willing crew of able bodies. While these particular repairs are unfamiliar; the process of taking things apart, restoring them to their original state, and putting them back together is the daily routine. I am familiar with the materials and techniques required to do whatever repairs are necessary and have set aside the time and budget to do so. If that means digging out the rot and fairing out the deck under the mast and re-rigging, so be it!

I have a local rigger coming by tomorrow to check it out. I plan on doing the repairs and hiring him for the rigging. Mast is coming down tomorrow and if he suggests new shrouds I will put in the order.

I will document the process in this thread and would greatly appreciate continued discussion. If you would like to participate, please stay on the topic of boat repair and please contribute at least one salient point

Attached photos of the compression post. It appears to be (relatively) sound, I don't see any sagging on the floor or even the roof which surprises me. I get the feeling that the deck sagged to the post and stopped. I looked in the keel slot and the fiberglass didn't seem rotted towards the post but maybe I'll drill a couple exploratory holes?

 

[centerline]

Attached photos of the compression post. It appears to be (relatively) sound, I don't see any sagging on the floor or even the roof which surprises me. I get the feeling that the deck sagged to the post and stopped. I looked in the keel slot and the fiberglass didn't seem rotted towards the post but maybe I'll drill a couple exploratory holes?

its good you can do the work yourself... with a bit of common sense and armed with a thorough understanding stress loading on a sailboat hull, your task will be more a matter of time rather than dollars...

with the compression post being teak as shown in the photos, it may have a bit of moisture staining at the base, but i would agree its far from rotten.
personally I wouldnt bother with a core sample... i would look for signs that the liner may have sagged, which is not likely, but you dont want to overlook ANYTHING as that is the foundation you are building on, and it has to be the most solid part of the boat.

once you insure the foundation is uncompromised, you can then begin the repair of the more obvious damage at the other stress points.

 

[jrowan]

As a carpenter, I think you should know how crucial the main bulk heads are where the chain plates attach to support the load of the mast. You starboard chain plate is just about ready to rip out & through your deck. I would lower your mast asap to get the load off of this fatigued & rotted boat. I would have to say that you are lucky that you haven't lost your rig through dismasting. It is more important to sail a sound boat then go sailing & hope for the best! At least you have wood working skills & access to tools. If you bulkheads look that bad, then you likely also have original standing rigging, which has likely been over torqued to compensate for the mast step sag & chain plate fatigue. I would have a pro rigger evaluate your boat. Unless you have the time to dedicate, you will find that you have many hours of repair work & major $$ ahead of you to repair the last owners neglect. I am surprised as a carpenter, you didn't realize the seriousness of the rot & damage at that starboard bulkhead. But as the earlier post stated, wisdom is learned from experience. Unfortunately the core rot & bulkhead rot that you have is about as serious as it gets for a sailboat in terms of structural repair. As previous posts stated you need to inspect the mast compression post for rot & you will likely have to replace rotted out plywood core under the mast & support post block. I would also inspect your keel bolts for a lot of loose play, an indicator of rot in the keel stub. Good luck on your repairs.

 

[shipwreck]

Thanks for the continued feedback!

Met with the rigger - it was a great experience and he seemed very knowledgeable. We went over the boat and made a list of hardware i'm interested in replacing and he has marine ply and fiberglass materials in stock. We made a rough plan and said I would be in touch when I've really dug into the project. Obviously the mast step and bulkhead are an issue but he didn't seem terribly concerned. While the fiberglass and wood needs replacing , he feels the shrouds and hardware are sound

Dropped the mast without issue and removed the starboard bulkhead. I cut out an area around the base of the mast for inspection. I attached photos of some significant cracking in a fiberglass layer - how big of an issue is this? I am inclined to chase the cracks for a bit and repair the whole scene with a stack of glass and epoxy and continue on my way but I have a feeling folks around here are going to call a deal breaker?

 

[The Garbone]

Does not look that bad. You can fill it back into the proper thickness with some balsa and reglass the top, not the end of the world. I am doing my cockpit floor in a similar manner.

Before restepping the mast check the keel compression block down in the bilge for rot since now would be the time to replace it if you need to.

Sounds like you have things well in hand.

 

[jrowan]

Glad to see that you did the wise thing & dropped your mast to repair the deck &
bulkhead properly. Your deck core actually doesn't look too bad at all. I would just bond your layers of balsa, fiberglass mat & roving & build her back up again. Hopefully you kept the skins of the outer glass that you removed, as it could possibly be rebonded & reused & faired back into the deck. If not you could used the cut pieces to form a mold for the new fiberglass surface. Matching the original pattern & texture of the glass work at the deck surface is the hardest part. You will likely have to repaint the whole deck to get it to match again. But you could also paint the textured areas of deck a slightly beige color to set it off & then your eye will be drawn away from the repaired areas. Good luck on your repairs, & don't forget to wear a good respirator!

 

[shipwreck]

For repairing the deck, because it's such a large area, I would like to use something a little more cost-effective than West or similar high end products. The rigger seems to think any resin will do as long as it's waterproof and wax-free. I was going to run around and see what's available in town in bulk - does anyone here have any recommendations?

Would Polyester or Epoxy be better for this application? I can get Rust Check cheap from walmart but is that too low quality or the wrong type or resin? Is Polyester the material for the job or should I spring for vinylester or epoxy?

I plan to:

1. Cut out a large square with stepped sides at the different layers. Small square for the deep layer, medium size for the plywood, and an outer level that comes flush to the cabintop. I feel like a stepped shape will have a better profile and be easier to control than pouring monolithically?
2. V out the large cracks and fill them and also push some filler into any delaminated bits at the borders of the square.
3. Fiberglass bandaid over the cracks and edges so that when I pour epoxy it doesnt leak into cracks and crevices.
4. Pour the deepest square and reinforce with some glass. Pour, glass, pour, glass.
5. Pour the next level, glass, pour, glass.
6. Pour the final level, glass... probably take a few tries to get it nice and level.

Does that sound like a reasonable process?


Eric the Rigger is pleased with the hardware and shrouds so they are going back on. He suggested rather than step up the mast, the original idiots should have just packed out the chainplates to get more life out of the shrouds. I was thinking of using G10 but it's a bit cost-prohibitive and hard to find around here. Would it be acceptable to use marine ply coated with epoxy? I suppose another option would be to make a few molds and lay up glass and epoxy myself but that seems a bit labor intensive - I need to keep reminding myself to not go overboard considering the general state of the boat

 

[Chief RA]

I have used exterior plywood as filler pieces and it works fine IF you completely seal it in epoxy resin before it is put in the boat. If it has to be drilled it must be resealed through the holes. Chief

 

[shipwreck]

So I totally blew it and took the poly off the mast base area I had cut away to let it air out, and it started raining, all night! Very wet, guaranteed to have crept into all the cracks and crevices...

I have a couple space heaters in there now and a more sophisticated tent steup that will allow the amount of condensation I'm expecting on the inside to drip off

How big of a deal is this? I suppose I just do whatever I can to get the moisture out, and hopefully at some point I can tape some poly down, wait a couple hours, and if there's no condensation be good to go?

The awful part is there was a lot of water, the good part I guess is that the boat is completely stripped and everything is opened up, which hopefully means it has hope of airing out?

yeesh!

 

[dive7mmwet]

its no big deal if you have time, the upgrades are all basic, the project on mast step is basic and great video on it on you tube, use no plywood only starboard its the best no rot never! next re do the mast, coax and wires ,probably antenna and lighting, wires, and anchor light led with some sponges in the mast, replace spreader brackets and poles if fatigued, also standing rigging it needs to be replaced "rigging only" best price on parts,, next your up grades on the shrouds are not right you need to use angle iron aluminum plate was specked on upgraded more strength, but before this cut out rotten deck and fill above, the bulk head chain plates need replaced easily from a metals shop and drill some holes in the S.S. ,the bulk head walls just replace with Starboard and tab in you can basically place starboard over it bolt in and some glass work if you like, lastly the keel, dig out the rotten compression block under the post in the keel bilge area its hidden by glass and is a upgrade too and at the same time dig out the keel board stub and lay in mat after you dig out the rotten plywood in the keel stub.
few tips stay away from Catalina direct as they directly empty your wallet, its a great place for a guy with a no boat IQ but I see your not so job out projects or buy direct they do! and theyhave no affiliation what so ever with Catalina Yachts mfg. oh if shes a Tall rig you will have a wood bow sprit a wooden post off your bow anchor locker

We did all above up grades on a old Catalina 27 TR ourselves in winter on the hard in 3 months, less major the fowling winter now we have a new 2014 Catalina 27 TR some needed to be done! some were questionable Why question your life on a old boat 30 + years old as most contemporaries are in the dump and crushed! when in doubt rip it out and replace it! Id say in cost materials on all factory up grades materials, glass, plates, Starboard,& misc Materials, $2k
the standing rigging and upgrades to mast coax, spreader brackets, wiring, antenna and lighting $1,200-$1500, the toys we added like charging bank ,led tv power invertors , led lighting , generator , out board motor mount for dink and back up engine well worth it amenities!
What we got is a boat we can take out sail to the rail and have a blast !! its no speed demon ,no real big ocean boat but a coastal cruiser and racer a well thought out boat with a great network of information any one can access taking the boat yard mystery out of it and with all the information about the updates and repairs others have done there loss is your gain!
Good luck feel free to PM us with any questions, next see our web blog on Face book Catalina 27 join B&L As it starts on the day we got the old girl thru the entire repair process with not one dollar spent at a boat yard next to launch and retrieval! good luck!

 

[PSR]

"its a great place for a guy with a no boat IQ..."
That's an insult to Catalina Direct, which is a great business in several important ways, and to anyone who ever has ordered from them. What arrogance! I'm surprised anyone would write this way on a generally fine forum.