Adjustable Genoa Cars

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Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
I know, I know plenty of guys say "I don't need those things", but, "Yes" they really do! If you have roller furling and partially furl your headsail, you need 'em. If you only have one genoa and it doesn't furl, you need 'em. If you have a nonoverlapping jib, you need 'em. Every boat should have them if you plan on having proper sail trim. OK, I've opened up a hornets nest here!..lets see who wants to say "they don't need 'em".
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
stirirred up a hornet's nest?

i'm not really feeling a big controversy here. Perhaps if one is a complete novice, indifferent or just lazy... but there's nothing wrong with that.
 
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Don Guillette

Adjustable fairleads

Mates: I can't tell you how many mast head rig sailboats I've been on where the jib fairlead is rusted in place or it is obvious to me that it has never been moved. After I talk a bit with the skipper I KNOW by what he is telling me about its function that he has never moved it. If you have a masthead rig and don't adjust your fairleads you will never get 100% efficiency from your little beauty. The reason being is that the jib is the engine on a mast head rig. On a fractional rig it is the mainsail but the jib has its function there also. You can raise the main and roll out the jib and not adjusts any sail trim control and call it sailing, which it is since the boat will move through the water, but you will get so much more enjoyment out of your boat if you spend a little time to learn how all your sail trim controls for the main and jib work. Believe me it isn't rocket science but there was a time in my sailing career where I thought it was rocket science!! In my opinion, one of the best adjustable fairlead systems is made by my friends at Garhauer Marine in Upland , Ca. It is bullet proof, guaranteed for 10 years and reasonably priced. If you were to buy their system, or anyones, there is one modification I would add to them and that is a short line that should be attached to the rear of the sliding car, which gives you the ability to move the car AFT. When you add that mod the system functions like a mini traveler. A lot of guys I know use bungee cords but they are very ineffective and I think they are a waste of money. Lets say you call Garhauer Marine on Monday and buy one of their systems. If you ever do decide to buy their unit ask for Mark or Guido and tell them Don G told you to call. After you install it, do you know what to do with it? There are 4 element of sail trim and they are draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. ALL your sail trim controls for your mainsail and jib ONLY adjust those 4 items. The jib fairleads are so important that they are used to adjust all four elements!!! The adjustment for angle of attack is inside or outside track. Sooo, my question is - which direction (forward or aft) do you move the fairleads to adjust each of the above elements element? The big thing with any of these contols is to know WHY the adjustment you are making produces a result. When you get to that point from a sail trim standpoint, where you know exactly which control to move and in what direction to get the desired result you are looking for you have arrived!!
 

OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
Don't need 'em!

Not racing, small fractional jib, short tracks to work with anyway. Just extra lines and clutter. Don't need 'em. With a bigger headsail, headsail changes or roller furling, then I'd probably feel differently.
 

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
Welcome back Don.

Hope your move is going well. The activity on this forum has gone down dramatically since your change of address. I was trying to think of something to spur interest in a sail trim topic. In the past I have seen many sailors who do not have or adjust their genoa cars. Thought it might be a good place to start. OldCat, sail trim has got nothing to do with racing or not. Sail trim is either right or it isn't. Sure racing sailors are going to make every effort to get their sail trim correct because it results in the best speed and performance. Thats not to say that any kind of sailing wouldn't benefit from proper sail trim. Sure a small fractional jib on a rig is less effective to the overall performance than a large overlapping genoa would be, but still trim is trim, it's either right or wrong. If you simply don't want to make the adjustment, thats your choice, but making the adjustments is what sailing is ALL about.
 
J

Jim Willis

Necessary when using rollor furling for reefing.

Not long after I got (in 1993) my Gulf 32 (1990 model) I got advice from North Sails in Alameda at to what I would need for a Pacific Crossing. They put a foam luff in the genoa and explained how I needed to move the pulleys forward on the track when I was using the genoa reefed etc showing me how otherwise the sail was wrinkled, stressed and would not drive as well. So I use the adjustable fairleads bu I am always careful not to jam my fingers! Jim W
 

OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
Alan: What Sailing Is About For Us

Adjustments? Generally I have other priorities than minor adjustments. I don't sail for adjustments. I am more in to getting my sailing lessons from "Skipper Steve" ;) (see pict). He is the one giving me a little thumbs up - but note he doesn't trust me enough yet to take his hand off the tiller! OK - when I have adult crew, or if my older kids are up for it that day, we will play with it and see if we can catch the boat that happens to be ahead - but usually I don't sail just to be able to adjust stuff. On the boats that I sail, there is not much difference being a hole or two off on the track - so if we are just relaxing, we'll not play with it that day.
 

BobW

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Jul 21, 2005
456
Hunter 31 San Pedro, Ca
Adjustable from the cockpit *pop

That seems like a really good idea. Not having to crawl out the lee side to move the fairlead would make them more likely to be adjusted. OK, it looks like stupid question time. Get ready, guys *zzz Don, I take it you are talking about the item I have pictured? Do you know if $250 gets a set of 2 or just one? If I don't get the optional 'swivel cam' (that's the line locking mechanism on the right, right?) then I have 2 lines on each side I need to tie off somewhere? Not having that cam sitting at the aft end of the track would be an advantage, I think. Are they adjustable under load? And now for a different subject: Which of the Garhaur non-ridid boom vangs would you recommend for a Hunter 31? I got your book, Don, and each trip out to the islands I read and study and experiment a little more. Reckon I have some idea what's going on with the mainsail now - the genoa's next! Thanks for all the help. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
adjustable system

Bob, let me jump in here with some info on the Garhauer adjustable lead car system. The price includes a lead car and control block for each side (4 pieces). The cam cleat on the car is optional. I have them, but you don't really need them. A couple of jam cleats will work fine. To complete the system you'll need some shock cord, the control line and a few hooks. I have 5/16 sta-set with a carabiner spliced in for a quick release connection to the control block. They are designed to be adjsutable under load and they aren't worth it unless they do. Pulling on the line moves the car forward. Releasing the line, along with pressure from the loaded sheet and a little help from the shock cord will move the car backwards. I found that routing the genoa sheet back to a turning block before leading to the winch allowed for much easier backwards movement. I included a picture. There's lots of hardare and rope in it so look carefully and you'll see how it's rigged. The sheet is the red line. Notice the white control line leading up to the cam cleat on the coaming. If you have a system like this you will make adjustments because it's easy. If you don't you'll tend to set it and forget it unless you're a real tweaker or a racer.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
another view

Here's a look from the cockpit. Control line cam cleat is just to the left of the primary winch.
 

jimq26

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Jun 5, 2004
860
- - -
Don't need 'em.

My G-26 design is not condusive to adjustable fairleads. Had them on my racing Albacore dinghy, on my C&C Shark 24, and always used them. On the G-26 we use two snatch blocks fastened to the toe rail on each side (they are 4 toe rail holes ahead of the winch on each side). Sometimes the crew will shift the blocks to another hole to get better trim on the 153% genoa. If we hank on another sail to suit the conditions, then the block is relocated accordingly. The balance is usually perfect for this boat. We have a split bridle traveller (original) at the transom so we can only pull the boom up to the boats centreline and not to windward. No matter - we go very well and sail fast. We have the club championships and trophies to prove it. That us - Sam's Closin'time - leading the fleet in the pic. Pointing pretty good eh?
 
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Dan Anderson

Genoa car - little bit=big difference

Joe, I like your set-up, and I've read Don's book. I can't wait to try out his magic on my H45. Anyway, my question for you and others is, in a general sense, about how far for and aft do you move the car to get the sail shape that improves the boat's performance? Are we talking a couple of inches, 4-6 inches, or 1-2 ft etc? As you move the car are you watching the sail for luff and twist or heel and boat speed to find that sweet spot? One more thing, with a roller furled jenny (slides in the headstay groove) do you get the same draft movement as you would with hanked on jibs by easing the halyard? Dan
 

Phil R

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Sep 7, 2005
7
Catalina 270 Willsboro, NY
I've got them

I took up sailing a few months ago and bought a new Catalina 270. My boat has a 135% genoa and adjustable fairleads on a cabin roof mounted track. I am a novice, but it seems that my genny is where the power is at! As a result, I devote much of my effort (learning experience)trying to get the most out of genny by adjusting the fairleads more than a few times each time out. I'm usually single handing but thanks to the auto pilot, I'm able work on my sail trim. It's a real kick to get it right and feel the boat pick up speed and get in the groove!
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
dan, genoa cars

Dan, the amount of movement depends on how close the clew is to the track. On a high cut clew, typical on cruising boats, you would have the move the car quite a bit more than on a low clewed deck sweeper racing sail. It's geometry...draw it out and it'll make sense. When I single hand I often use my 110% that has a fairly high clew so I might move the lead a foot either way. On my 140% decksweeper the car may only need to move a few inches to affect the trim. I have the holes on the track numbered for reference. Interestingly enough the car positions are very similar for both these sails because of the clews' cut. That is because the sailmaker set the sails up that way. So if you have a short track or fixed leads, your sailmaker can cut the sails to accomodate those restrictions. When sailing I'll set the cars in the normal way, luffing up and watching the telltales. If the bottom breaks first, pull the car back, top - forward. Then I tweak them according to conditions. When single handing I don't change them too much after I get them where I want, then I sail by the telltales. With an enthusiastic crew or when racing, we'll move them forward after a tack, to power up, then back to a more balanced shape after picking up speed. My sails are hanked on, but I don't think it would make any difference.
 
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Don Guillette

Adjust from cockpit

Bob (Ventura): The Garhauer price includes 2 adjustable systems. I prefer the swivel with the cam cleat. If you don't get their swivel you'll have to attach something (cleat or swivel) to each side and that involves drilling holes. The swivels are on the pricey side but they are worth it - to me anyway. On the soft boom vang - I'd call Garhauer and ask for Guido or Mark and tell them Don G told you to call. They will know immediately what size will fit your boat.
 
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Don Guillette

To have or not have

Mates: You have to be careful with what you read here especially about adjustable fairlead systems. Some guys don't believe in them and most of the experienced guys on this list have reasons for not using them - small boat , fractional rig etc. If you have a masthead rig and have a jib in excess of 135 you should adjust your fairleads for various wind conditions and points of sail. That is if you want to get 100% efficiency. If you just want to raise the main and roll out the jib than that is OK too. So just because some mates don't use them should mean nothing to the beginner to intermediate. Figure out what your sailing needs are and act accordingly.
 
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Don Guillette

Fairlead adjustment

Joe (San Diego) explained how to determine the proper fairlead placement. Every time you tack the boat you should check the "BREAK" of the sail. You'll see it just before you come head to wind. The first couple of time you really have to look for it but once you see it happen you'll notice it every time. The way the sail breaks determines your general setting on the new side but because the wind is ever changing you may have to make a slight adjustment to get it right.
 

OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
Don: To Have or Not Have . . .

A really well written post - really sets out well the perspective needed for everyone's perspectives to be understood. Thanks,
 
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