Adequate towing vehicle?

31seahorse · Aug 23, 2015

spitfire1967 said:
I have a c/b ODay Mariner which weighs 1300 lbs.

Am also considering a Subaru Outback 4 cyl with 2700 lbs capacity or
a Subaru Outback 6 cyl. with a 3300 capacity?

Any thoughts or experiences
here.

We have towed similar boats and heavier boats (remember to add weight for motor & fuel, gear aboard, and the trailer) with a Toyota V6 Hilander. The concern may be stopping the load you are pulling.

We own a Subaru Forester and I would hesitate to pull with the CVT only because we have not owned the vehicle more than three months. Also the towing hitch the Subaru dealership showed us is a lightly built one for about 1500 pounds as you say you have on the vehicle you have now. I would feel more comfortable with using that hitch for a bike rack than for a towing attachment.

The Hilander gave me a few moments of concern in emergency braking when I felt the entire vehicle and unit slide on the roadway. It did stop safely due to the antilock brakes, I believe. Once using the 4 wheel option we helped pull another vehicle, its boat and trailer up a steep ramp when the original tow vehicle could not move the boat. So far, the Subaru has not impressed me as being over-built.

hawk232 · Aug 23, 2015

if only it were a world where we could base these things solely off of towing capacity!!

I will say, I have never heard anyone say "I wish my vehicle wasn't rated to tow so much!" (including myself with my truck rated for 14k)...

Indysailor · Aug 23, 2015

I have a hitch on my Subaru Forester which I use to tow my sunfish to the marina and back and for fetching plywood or lumber for a project. It's a regular transmission, not a CVT. Consider that on a vehicle such as an Outback or a Forester, the hitch is connected to the body of the car, and as such every bit of shock is transferred through the hitch to the rear compartment of the vehicle. It might say my Forester can tow 2000 pounds (I'm a little doubtful of the capacity you cite), but man, it feels like the car is suffering through every bump and road irregularity I encounter. Compared to my old Ford Ranger or any truck that has an actual frame, it feels like the vehicle is being torn apart by trailering. My advice is to get a pickup. I would think a Tacoma or a Dakota would do fine. If you need rear seats, get a crew cab.

Crazy Dave Condon · Aug 24, 2015

feel free to email me if you want some pointers but the choice is up to you. Former dealer who has over 1.4 million miles of towing under my belt.

Brian S · Aug 24, 2015

My 192 specs at 1400 lbs displacement. That's not including the trailer, motor, stuff, and yet more stuff on board. I have a 2011 Subaru Forester, with either 2200 or 2400 lbs tow capacity (depends on where you find the figure.) I have no problem getting it in and out of our nice concrete ramp at the lake, especially with an 8' tongue extension. I've towed it about15 or 20 miles through gently rolling countryside, and I do drive SLOWLY. I bought the Foz to tow a 425# boat, and the 192 came kinda unexpectedly... I really do wish I had more tow capacity. Someday I'd like to take the boat to Lake George or Chesapeake, and I just don't feel comfortable towing those longer distances.

I WOULD NOT buy a CRV to tow yours or my boat. I'm surprised that the 4 cylinder Outback has increased capacity to 2700#, but I'm not surprised that a 6 cylinder Outback is rated to 3300#. I'm a little more wary of the CVT transmission. In my research I found most 4 cylinder vehicles top out at around 2400#, and 6 cylinders can go 4000, 4500, up to 5500# max for the Nissan Xtera. The reason the Xtera can go to 5500# is because it's built on a Frontier pickup traditional box frame, as opposed to unit-body. Unit-body vehicles can't tow as much, because you risk pulling the body apart

I always assumed that a 6 cylinder can go to higher capacities due to a beefier transmission, but I've heard that some 6 cylinder engines use the same trans as a 4.

People with bigger boats than my 19' often say they want a tow platform with twice the capacity as all up boat/trailer weight. I would be happy with something around 4000, 4500#.

If you don't tow great distances, if you primarily tow flat terrain, and stay off highways, then you might be ok with either Outback, putting the outboard in the car, along with most gear. When I tow, I tow to launch or retrieve to a marina, so I have the luxury of only having the outboard in the back, and I can bring cushions, sails, all the other sundry junk I carry aboard in separate trips.

Benny17441 · Aug 24, 2015

Towing Ratings in the US emerge from a murky cloud of undisclosed internal tests that manufacturers developed on their own. It is no surprise that trucks claim the highest ratings and that there is no interest in boosting the ratings of family cars. Thirty three States and DC set 3,000# as the threshold for requiring brakes on a trailer. California, Idaho and Nevada set theirs at 1,500#. Texas uses 4,500# and Alaska 5000#. Surprisingly Massachusetts tops the list at 10,000# and Missouri has no requirements at all. What's basically happening is that the tow regulations in the US are tailored to allow you to tow a trailer with no brakes at maximum road speeds. What if you were willing to reduce your maximum speed to 60MPH while towing, to add brakes to the trailer and limit the load not to exceed the tow's vehicle weight? Then your vehicle which is rated for 2,000# in the US all of a sudden is rated for 4,400# in the UK. (this does not apply to every vehicle with the Honda CRV being one) It seems a low tow rating is the simplest way to enforce safe towing procedures and the manufacturers do not care to endorse cars as dual utility vehicles. If you want to tow, buy a truck seems to be their motto. Most tow ratings are guidance and do not bear the weight of law but get into an accident and some slick attorney will convince a judge which has no interest in tow ratings that you were negligent in exceeding manufacturer's ratings. If you have doubts if your vehicle can mechanically handle a load without damage just look up its rating in the UK or Australia and their ratings will give you a better idea. Remember that the Government's primary priorities are to keep you safe and to expand commerce. I think they encompass both with the lean ratings.

Zed · Aug 24, 2015

I have a West Wight Potter 19, that weighs in at 1225. But the Pacific Trailer weighs at about 600 lb, and the gear and people in the vehicle bring in another 600. So now I am at 2400. They usually suggest that you not tow more than 60-70% of your actual towing capacity.

This means that 2700 lb is the max but not really. Your max should be 1600-1800. You are over this in a Forester.

Without trailer brakes you have to be very very careful about breaking and pray you don't have to make any panic stops. But if you have to put the boat into salt water you don't want trailer brakes since you have to immerse the tires, and salt water will destroy brakes.

I bought a Pontiac Torrent(like a chevy Equinox). Its pt AWD, 3.4 l 6cyl SUV. Its rated at 3500, and so I am under the limits.

Benny17441 · Aug 24, 2015

Zed said:
They usually suggest that you not tow more than 60-70% of your actual towing capacity.

This means that 2700 lb is the max but not really. Your max should be 1600-1800. You are over this in a Forester.

For the record, who is "They"? With the US towing specs being so lean you can safely as well as legally bump up to them. With a load of 2,700# your trailer weight to tow vehicle weight ratio is around 77% for a Subaru Outback, which is adequate. I really do not see how you can get to 2,700# with your boat, I would conservatively say 2,400# tops. A chain is just as strong as its weakest link so insure your hitch receiver and ball assembly are rated for the load. With no trailer brakes you will be legal in most States but California, Nevada and Idaho. Because of the lack of trailer brakes do allow yourself a safe stopping distance from the vehicle in front and do not exceed the speed limit and if all possible stay under 65MPH.

Crazy Dave Condon · Aug 25, 2015

Debate of towing vehicles will continue long after I die. Manufacturers do put a limit on the towing capacity one of which is liability. so often, I have seen and heard so much but one good point to mention is the braking capacity without trailer brakes wherein a truck system is better than a car on braking towing a trailer without brakes. It all comes down to safety and should you decide to choose an inadequate vehicle not suitable without brakes on the trailer to tow nor have the experience, considerations have to be made. I learned a lot from towing experience, designing of sailboat trailers from Ron Frisosky who designed sailboat trailers for Performance and Road King, etc. over the years.

Good advice, listen to the experienced as the old salty sea dogs use to say and you will be better informed.

Benny17441 · Aug 26, 2015

The question comes up often of a sailor in a budget that would like for his family sedan or small SUV to serve double duty and allow him to trailer a small boat. It is obvious that a diesel powered truck could get the job done and would be the recommendation of choice but is usually not in the budget. It is also obvious that a boat whose towing weight was 5,000# or above would now days require a truck for a tow vehicle. But the answer is not so clear when the towing weight is just around 2500# and there are family cars out there that could serve the family as well as tow the boat in the weekends. Choosing an adequate and safe tow vehicle is not as easy as looking at a list of vehicle's tow ratings and choosing one by the numbers. First of all do not speculate on the weight of the boat, trailer, outboard and stuff and take it to a commercial scale and get it weighed. Also determine the towing area, traffic, its terrain and the average roundtrip distance. Towing for long distances in the mountains will require a different vehicle than towing in flat land for short distances. Traffic density may determine the need for brakes or not. Looking for an adequate vehicle might require doing some homework as different models come with different stopping distances, different tires, different suspensions, wheelbase, engines, transmissions and many other factors. You can choose the one that better fits your anticipated towing needs. There are also some vehicles that can be modified easier and cheaper than others; adding a transmission cooler, heavy duty shocks and springs and higher load carrying tires might do wonders to enhance the towing performance. Further when looking at towing ratings make sure you get those for your specific vehicle. I was looking at an advertising for the new Fords F150 and the tow rating of 12,200# caught my eye but then went to the listings and found that a base model V6 is only rated for 5000# and the diesel engine equipped model goes up to 11,900#. I gather the vehicle that tested at 12,200# is not a floor model and might be only available as special order perhaps. Where safety really lies is in observing sound trailering practices in accordance with the prevalent road conditions. Make sure you have the proper tongue weight as well as the tow vehicle and the trailer are sitting level. Also make sure that the load is well distributed in the trailer with most of it ahead of the axle, That the hubs are in good condition and that the tires are rated and inflated to maximum load capacity. Insure the trailer lights are in good working order. Before embarking in any long distance tow drive the rig around the block to test for sway or any imbalance. Tune your trailer and vehicle for the first outing and then just make minor adjustments in subsequent trips. If you do not mind a somewhat high fuel consumption I would recommend a Nissan XTerra which comes ready to tow 5000# and are comparatively priced. I believe the Outbacks should do fine but would welcome the added power of the V6.

Zed · Aug 26, 2015

Biggest issue with the Outback according to an internet search is that the maximum tongue weight on it is 200 lb. My Pontiac Torrent has a 3.4 l six with a a towing number of 3500 and a max tongue weight of 400 lb. The suspension on an Outback is not designed to handle more than 200 lb. tongue.

Often the Tongue is a little bit more than 10% of towing number. In the Outback case its 33% lower.

Bill Roosa · Aug 26, 2015

lets not forget that the friction you get off the back wheels (any wheel in fact) is the coeficent of friction (rubber and road) times the weight on the wheel.
If you can't get up the ramp due to wheel slip just add some kids to the back of the vehicle till you have enough weight over the wheels to develop the required friction. overloading is ok in this case as your only going 1 MPH and 100 ft

Zed · Sep 2, 2015

Bill Roosa said:
l
If you can't get up the ramp due to wheel slip just add some kids to the back of the vehicle till you have enough weight over the wheels to develop the required friction.

Some people on-line said that the best friction increaser is Bird Grit used in the cages of birds to catch their crap--way better than sand.

Another thing to do is to clean off the sand from the ramp so that you are on a solid ramp, not slippery sand if this is an issue. I always go out the day before and clean the ramp since mine is on a beach.

AWD's that only give a boost on start-up are actually ideal for boat ramps since that's all you need---a kick in the rear to get started up the ramp.

Another thing to do is to turn the front wheels to the left or right, because in the first few inches to get started, pulling sideways is easier than pulling forward, only your feel motion, then pull forward and since you already have motion is easier for the transmission to build on that.

CloudDiver · Sep 2, 2015

Ah, so many tow vehicle threads, so little time...

Yes, there are a hundred ways to skin a cat and a about a dozen tow vehicles that will satisfy your requirements (especially when you have a very light boat on a single axle trailer to haul).

Just my two cents, for what you will pay for a Subaru outback or Forester you can get a light duty truck for less with a V-6 that will tow more for sure and get reasonable fuel mileage. I am assuming you are looking to buy new vs. used.

There has been a lot of progress made in the light duty truck segment. The Toyota Tacoma has been around for a long time and is no slouch (but expensive). Ford is planning to bring back the Ranger. Chevy/GMC is introducing a baby Duramax diesel for the Colorado/Canyon. Here is a tip on truck buying, go to the Commercial/fleet dealers and buy the 'work truck' version. Don't pay $10K more for the same truck that just has a bunch of chrome trim, fancy wheels, and other fu-fu crap you don't need.

MrBill_FLL · Sep 2, 2015

How far are you planning on towing?

fwiw, I use to live in cohasset. its right on the water. so unless you are going out to the cape often you can 'get by' with a lesser vehicle. (like the CRV).

That said, most towing should be done at 70% tow capacity.

what does your 'home' ramp look like? steep, or gradual? whats the surface like, smooth, or has groves to help get traction...

Are only towing 100/mi a year, or more like thousands of miles.

-brake in a straight line, get all your braking done before you start turning, and give plenty of room, stay below 55mph, etc.

walt · Sep 4, 2015

Subaru Forester data point..

I have a 2009 with the four speed auto and one time pulling an 800 pound trailer over the mountains in CO had the smell of over heated tranny fluid. So I added a cooler, no problem since.

This car will pull my Mac 26S full of water (ballast) up even a steep wet ramp no strain/ problem at all. That boat is probably 2700 pounds on the trailer and even with trailer brakes, no way would I run it on the highway (but I also have not tried this and also wont).

Im on a trip right now with the Hobie TI (18 foot trimaran) on the roof and just did 1500 miles at average of maybe 73 mph getting 22.5 MPG... The picture is from Hood River OR where it was nice to not have a trailer.

greenminnow · Sep 29, 2015

Chev Trailblazer

The Chev Trailblazer is very good bang for the buck on boat towing. I think they are in the 5,200 range. You get AWD, 4 high. and 4 low. along with the rear wheel drive. I bought one of these this spring, I have a sailboat and fishing boat. it still wows me after a summer of towing.

Brian

Adequate towing vehicle?

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