We are thinking of buying a 1981 Catalina 30 with a 1987 BMW 1 cyclinder, 12 Hp diesal engine. Does anyone have any comments about the adequacy of this engine for this boat? I ask because we are new to boating and I have never seen a Cat. 30 which had this particular engine. Thanks
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Probably a little underpowered
While there are a lot of 30s out there with 11 hp diesels, I think many owners felt they were underpowered. Catalina phased in a 21 hp diesel in the mid- to late-'80s; that's what I have in my '89 and I wouldn't want to have much less in big winds & seas. The Catalina has a lot of weight and windage for a 30-footer and it definitely benefits from a bigger iron genny.
While there are a lot of 30s out there with 11 hp diesels, I think many owners felt they were underpowered. Catalina phased in a 21 hp diesel in the mid- to late-'80s; that's what I have in my '89 and I wouldn't want to have much less in big winds & seas. The Catalina has a lot of weight and windage for a 30-footer and it definitely benefits from a bigger iron genny.
Thats two of us....but
I agree with Dave that it is too underpowered however, there are a lot of older Catalinas like the one you are referring to. I owned one.( Frankly would not own another because of resale ) I have never heard of a BMW diesel refit. If you can find a comparable priced boat with the shoal draft( depending on your sailing area ) and bigger Universal diesel you will fair better with the resale. Spend the few extra dollars now so you don't have to lose your shorts later. Good Luck, Grant
I agree with Dave that it is too underpowered however, there are a lot of older Catalinas like the one you are referring to. I owned one.( Frankly would not own another because of resale ) I have never heard of a BMW diesel refit. If you can find a comparable priced boat with the shoal draft( depending on your sailing area ) and bigger Universal diesel you will fair better with the resale. Spend the few extra dollars now so you don't have to lose your shorts later. Good Luck, Grant
BMW
12 hp is not enough. 18 hp is the minimum for this boat. A dockmate of mine had this engine in a 26ft boat and he claims: It is sea water cooled, not good for salt water areas. Has a very small alternator. Hard to work on. Parts are difficult to find. Vibrates like crazy. Keep looking.
12 hp is not enough. 18 hp is the minimum for this boat. A dockmate of mine had this engine in a 26ft boat and he claims: It is sea water cooled, not good for salt water areas. Has a very small alternator. Hard to work on. Parts are difficult to find. Vibrates like crazy. Keep looking.
Repowered my '81 Cat 30
I had nothig but trouble with my 11HP Universal Diesel on my 1981 Cat30, mostly because I keep my boat in a marina slip. Last year I replaced the engine with a new 21HP and its made all the difference. But $13k is a lot to invest in repowering an older boat, so it may be best to keep looking. Cat 30's are great boats!
I had nothig but trouble with my 11HP Universal Diesel on my 1981 Cat30, mostly because I keep my boat in a marina slip. Last year I replaced the engine with a new 21HP and its made all the difference. But $13k is a lot to invest in repowering an older boat, so it may be best to keep looking. Cat 30's are great boats!
HP
The Yanmar web site says for a displacement hull, you should have 1 hp for each 500 pounds of boat. My boat weighs 12,000 pounds empty, it has a 27 hp Yanmar.
The Yanmar web site says for a displacement hull, you should have 1 hp for each 500 pounds of boat. My boat weighs 12,000 pounds empty, it has a 27 hp Yanmar.
Thanks
Thanks, everyone, for the responses. We decided to pass on the boat with the 12hp engine. Currently we're focusing on on with 26 or 27 hp. It's about time to make an offer! We're excited.
Thanks, everyone, for the responses. We decided to pass on the boat with the 12hp engine. Currently we're focusing on on with 26 or 27 hp. It's about time to make an offer! We're excited.
It's a sailboat
Our 1983 Catalina 30 has been in the water for the past 15 years. Removed for bottom painting three times and once for hurricane repair (did bottom paint # 3 then). Boat has been all over the channel islands off CA and down to Baja (where it lives now) and up and down the Sea of Cortez. The 5411 engine has been a workhorse with no problems. It is flushed with fresh water after use (sink plumbed to sea water intake) and stored for six months with fresh water and radiator anticorrosive while we return to the US. Other than an impeller now and then, one raw water pump replacement, it has been flawless. Oh, after 14 years did redo exhaust riser (total cost: $10). This year I pumped 15 gallons of diesel out of the tank and disposed of it as it was over 7 years old. Gave it new diesel. Underpowered? That is relative. We sail, use the motor on windless days and getting in or out of the slip. On a "bad" day, if there ever are any when sailing, motoring with full sails gets her up pretty well. And, of course, sails up dampens swell action. Down here, if the motor needs to come back to the US, two guys can lift it out, carry it, bring it back to the US for ?. Met a guy this year with 8700 hours on his motor! I have 1600 hours. Reliable, inexpensive, a Kubota tractor engine with part availability, sips fuel, and actually, an auxillary. Sure wouldn't throw out a great boat for having this engine. Would I replace it (if we have total failure) with more hp? Sure, but certainly based upon the past 15 years the little beast will keep purring along for many more hours.
Our 1983 Catalina 30 has been in the water for the past 15 years. Removed for bottom painting three times and once for hurricane repair (did bottom paint # 3 then). Boat has been all over the channel islands off CA and down to Baja (where it lives now) and up and down the Sea of Cortez. The 5411 engine has been a workhorse with no problems. It is flushed with fresh water after use (sink plumbed to sea water intake) and stored for six months with fresh water and radiator anticorrosive while we return to the US. Other than an impeller now and then, one raw water pump replacement, it has been flawless. Oh, after 14 years did redo exhaust riser (total cost: $10). This year I pumped 15 gallons of diesel out of the tank and disposed of it as it was over 7 years old. Gave it new diesel. Underpowered? That is relative. We sail, use the motor on windless days and getting in or out of the slip. On a "bad" day, if there ever are any when sailing, motoring with full sails gets her up pretty well. And, of course, sails up dampens swell action. Down here, if the motor needs to come back to the US, two guys can lift it out, carry it, bring it back to the US for ?. Met a guy this year with 8700 hours on his motor! I have 1600 hours. Reliable, inexpensive, a Kubota tractor engine with part availability, sips fuel, and actually, an auxillary. Sure wouldn't throw out a great boat for having this engine. Would I replace it (if we have total failure) with more hp? Sure, but certainly based upon the past 15 years the little beast will keep purring along for many more hours.
a sailboat sometimes has to motor...
and especially in emergencies or in rough conditions you would like the motor to be powerful enough to get you out quickly and easily. I find the 23hp Universal MX also barely strong enough. I have the three-bladed prop, standard specification and renewed by PO 3 years ago. Yet the best the boat does is 5.4 to 5.6 knts @2500rpm in very calm conditions with a max of perhaps 6.1knts @3200 rpm. This is plenty in calm conditions, but last Saturday eg we had 35-40knt headwind and a huge swell and sea. As there were maxi-yachts racing in the vicinity and we were shorthanded we decided to motor out of the area: we didn't get any more speed than 2.7 knts (on the GPS)......the good news is that with a tailwind we were doing 6knts @2000 rpm! Wouldn't like to think what the engine does in an emergency with really very rough seas...probably not much at all. Having said this, it still is a good boat and I am very happy with it, (and yes, the engine is reliable and frugal) but if given the choice, I would prefer 27 to 30 hp...just in case....
and especially in emergencies or in rough conditions you would like the motor to be powerful enough to get you out quickly and easily. I find the 23hp Universal MX also barely strong enough. I have the three-bladed prop, standard specification and renewed by PO 3 years ago. Yet the best the boat does is 5.4 to 5.6 knts @2500rpm in very calm conditions with a max of perhaps 6.1knts @3200 rpm. This is plenty in calm conditions, but last Saturday eg we had 35-40knt headwind and a huge swell and sea. As there were maxi-yachts racing in the vicinity and we were shorthanded we decided to motor out of the area: we didn't get any more speed than 2.7 knts (on the GPS)......the good news is that with a tailwind we were doing 6knts @2000 rpm! Wouldn't like to think what the engine does in an emergency with really very rough seas...probably not much at all. Having said this, it still is a good boat and I am very happy with it, (and yes, the engine is reliable and frugal) but if given the choice, I would prefer 27 to 30 hp...just in case....
Edward: You have the wrong prop.
Your C-30 should be able to motor at 6.7 knots (hull speed) at 2500 - 2600 RPM (80% of WOT) with the Universal M-25XP. If you can't, you're under-proped (probably not enough pitch). You don't need a bigger engine, you need the corect prop. Although your prop is "the standard specification", you should be able to reach hull speed at 75 - 80% of WOT, and not be able to exceed the maximum engine RPM (3200). Since the Universal M25XP has a governor (according to the web site) set at 3200 RPM, you can't over-rev the engine, so an under-prop situation would not be as readily observed. You should have your prop re-pitched until you can just barely reach 3199 RPM with the throttle fire-walled. At that point, you will be achieving the maximum power out of your engine / prop combination, and you will be able to power through much worse chop thaan what you were describing. Steve Alchemist C-30T #4764 Alchemist C-320 #909
Your C-30 should be able to motor at 6.7 knots (hull speed) at 2500 - 2600 RPM (80% of WOT) with the Universal M-25XP. If you can't, you're under-proped (probably not enough pitch). You don't need a bigger engine, you need the corect prop. Although your prop is "the standard specification", you should be able to reach hull speed at 75 - 80% of WOT, and not be able to exceed the maximum engine RPM (3200). Since the Universal M25XP has a governor (according to the web site) set at 3200 RPM, you can't over-rev the engine, so an under-prop situation would not be as readily observed. You should have your prop re-pitched until you can just barely reach 3199 RPM with the throttle fire-walled. At that point, you will be achieving the maximum power out of your engine / prop combination, and you will be able to power through much worse chop thaan what you were describing. Steve Alchemist C-30T #4764 Alchemist C-320 #909
Thanks Steve
for your very specific answer. Certainly something I'll attend to soon - seems much better than a new engine...
and it is probably the only real gripe I have (had?) with the Cat30.
for your very specific answer. Certainly something I'll attend to soon - seems much better than a new engine...
and it is probably the only real gripe I have (had?) with the Cat30.I loved mine too, and only had two gripes
The first was that with a Martec 2 blade folding prop, pounding 20 degrees off straight into 4'- 6' chop (the waves are very close together on Lake Michigan), I was only able to achieve 2 knots before I hit the next wave and slowed again. A three blade prop would have helped here with the acceleration between waves. (My choice, sailing with a 3 blade fixed prop is slow, and I raced the Alchemist). With the Martec two blade folding prop, I was able to achieve hull speed at 2600 RPM, and firewalled, could reach 7.1 knots in flat water with no head wind. and: 2 The Admiral and I got tired of sleeping on the dining room table on our annual cruises and weekend campouts. When she said to me at the Chicago Boat Show 4 years ago "After spending a bunch of boat bucks on our proposed upgrades, we will still be sleeping on the dining room table.", I took it as permission to buy a new C-320. I like the 320 better than I liked the 30 (especially sailing on a broad reach to a run in waves), but I was happy with both boats. Steve Alchemist C-30T #4764 Alchemist C-320 #909
The first was that with a Martec 2 blade folding prop, pounding 20 degrees off straight into 4'- 6' chop (the waves are very close together on Lake Michigan), I was only able to achieve 2 knots before I hit the next wave and slowed again. A three blade prop would have helped here with the acceleration between waves. (My choice, sailing with a 3 blade fixed prop is slow, and I raced the Alchemist). With the Martec two blade folding prop, I was able to achieve hull speed at 2600 RPM, and firewalled, could reach 7.1 knots in flat water with no head wind. and: 2 The Admiral and I got tired of sleeping on the dining room table on our annual cruises and weekend campouts. When she said to me at the Chicago Boat Show 4 years ago "After spending a bunch of boat bucks on our proposed upgrades, we will still be sleeping on the dining room table.", I took it as permission to buy a new C-320. I like the 320 better than I liked the 30 (especially sailing on a broad reach to a run in waves), but I was happy with both boats. Steve Alchemist C-30T #4764 Alchemist C-320 #909
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