Additional forestay

2sticks · Feb 21, 2014

Recently saw a storm sail for sale that wraps the furled headsail and seems like it should work with a furler. To answer the question of added headstays, should work well and may be a great addition. Even though it flies in the face of most modern opinion, I am always tempted to replace my furler with a hank on genoa. It only takes one failure at the wrong time to demonstrate why.

Highest regards,
Darrell

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Feb 21, 2014

Yep-called a "solent stay" Usually about 8 inches to a foot aft of the headstay. Probably be a PITA to tack the jib though.

Joe · Feb 21, 2014

Not really a solent stay, which sits just behind the headstay, though that seems to be the more popular setup... I think Brian is talking about a "twin headstay" where the stays are adjacent, side by side.... My neighbor's boat is a '66 Columbia 26 pilothouse.... it has twin headstays. Many cruisers used them to allow rigging wing on wing headsail configurations and to allow racers to change hanked on sails more effeciently.

Rather than a twin headstay for the storm jib though, I might prefer a detachable inner forestay, which is attached in the middle of the foredeck, rather than just behind the headstay like a solent stay... it could be rigged with the sail already hanked on when the weather starts to turn... hoist as needed, douse the headsail with a RF or jib downhaul. It puts the center of effort for the storm jib lower and closer to the middle of the boat... along with a properly rigged trysail on the mast.. you'd be pretty seaworthy.

As detachable, single line headsail and spinnaker furlers become more popular the solent stay rig has lost it's biggest advantage.

Jackdaw · Feb 21, 2014

Joe said:
Rather than a twin headstay for the storm jib though, I might prefer a detachable inner forestay, which is attached in the middle of the foredeck, rather than just behind the headstay like a solent stay... it could be rigged with the sail already hanked on when the weather starts to turn... hoist as needed, douse the headsail with a RF or jib downhaul. It puts the center of effort for the storm jib lower and closer to the middle of the boat... along with a properly rigged trysail on the mast.. you'd be pretty seaworthy.

This.

Reaching on a Class 40, we have a solent sail on deck an in its bag. The stay is made of pre-stretched dyneema (Dux) that is stronger and lighter than stainless. The stay and sail can be quickly removed, but we find it easier to leave it all rigged with the sail in the bag, ready to go. The only time we take it down is if there is going to be a LOT of tacking, or we expect a long time in light airs.

Leaving it rigged also protects the mast. And tacking is not a big deal; the stay is 4 feet behind the forestay and the jib goes right through. The stay is all fabric and removable, and adjustable from the cockpit. a 8:1 tackle is led through a line lock, and back to a winch on the cabintop. Clever stuff. In this picture the stay is off; you can see the 'dogbone' it attaches to just aft of the anchor locker

Merlin Clark · Feb 21, 2014

You can accomplish the same by using a wire luff sail. You connect the tack to the stem fitting and use your spinnaker halyard to haul it up. No hanking or zipping, etc.
Easy day.

centerline · Feb 21, 2014

as for doing what you are asking about, I agree with what Joe said.

but no, you are not turning it into a cutter rig. you have an additional stay that is attached at the top, but detached at the bottom and stored against the mast (or off to the side by the shrouds), and when you want it, you attach it at the bottom, tension it and hank your storm sail to it.....

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Feb 21, 2014

Agree on the not a cutter. The term I hear for that is a "Slutter" In a cutter, the mast is almost amidships, far more aft than a sloop.

A Technicality

Jackdaw · Feb 21, 2014

merlinuxo said:
You can accomplish the same by using a wire luff sail. You connect the tack to the stem fitting and use your spinnaker halyard to haul it up. No hanking or zipping, etc.
Easy day.

This can be a huge load in the rig.

Halyard systems are not designed to load up like a forestay. Even on boats with dyneema luffs in reaching sails, the special halyard has a 2:1 purchase to help with the extra load. Almost all boats that have a removable stay have a deck fitting, and do not adjust it mast side. You'll break something.

Merlin Clark · Feb 22, 2014

How would this be more load than the old Schaefer (no foil) roller furlers? Had these on both Chris Craft 35s and the GS41 I owned and sailed.

Of course these were old and beefy boats with rope/wire halyards. Is it because a storm sail would be more subject to shock loading?

Like this

Jackdaw · Feb 22, 2014

merlinuxo said:
How would this be more load than the old Schaefer (no foil) roller furlers? Had these on both Chris Craft 35s and the GS41 I owned and sailed.

Of course these were old and beefy boats with rope/wire halyards. Is it because a storm sail would be more subject to shock loading?

Like this

Those never worked well. Way too hard to get correct luff tension. Indeed, Schaefer no longer sells those as jib furlers for bigger boats.

They now sell it as a 'free flying' furler, only for day sailers, and for off-wind sails on larger boats.

BTW, wire halyards were no stronger or offered less stretch than modern halyards.

Sandy Stone · Feb 22, 2014

One big advantage of solent stays is not having to rig running backstays. Also, it might be easier to beef up the deck attachment point in the vicinity of the anchor locker bulkhead rather than somewhere over the middle of the v-berth.

Merlin Clark · Feb 22, 2014

Jackdaw said:
Those never worked well. Way too hard to get correct luff tension. Indeed, Schaefer no longer sells those as jib furlers for bigger boats.

They now sell it as a 'free flying' furler, only for day sailers, and for off-wind sails on larger boats.

BTW, wire halyards were no stronger or offered less stretch than modern halyards.

In my actual experience they worked fine.

Jackdaw · Feb 22, 2014

merlinuxo said:
In my actual experience they worked fine.

Duly noted. I'm at least smart enough to not argue with someone's actual experience!

rgranger · Feb 22, 2014

Brian D said:
..... I will have to read up on the solent stay and see what that is all about. Wonder if it is anything like so(y)lent green? LOL

Sail Mag. had an excellent feature article about building a solent stay .... maybe a year ago...I looked through my back issues but could not find it.... but I did find the on-line link...

http://www.sailmagazine.com/boatworks/convert-your-sloop-double-headsail-rig

Jackdaw · Feb 22, 2014

rgranger said:
Sail Mag. had an excellent feature article about building a solent stay .... maybe a year ago...I looked through my back issues but could not find it.... but I did find the on-line link...

http://www.sailmagazine.com/boatworks/convert-your-sloop-double-headsail-rig

That is a very good piece. The only thing I would add to his list is the ability to lock the Tensioning Line (#7) near the stay. A modern remote release halyard lock will do it. This allows the Tensioning Line to be slack back to the winch, and minimizes stretch.

Its funny but the picture of the the Tartan in the top of the article does NOT have a solent stay. It has it regular jib rolled up behind a roller for a reaching a-sail.

rgranger · Feb 22, 2014

I can imagine setting it up so that the solent stay and storm jib are pre-hanked and with a line lead aft, you could just raise it as needed from the cockpit without having to go onto a pitching deck. If you have a hanked on headsail, set that up with a down haul lead aft and you can manage the entire sail change from the cockpit. Even easier if you have a roller furled headsail.

Jackdaw · Feb 22, 2014

asd

rgranger said:
I can imagine setting it up so that the solent stay and storm jib are pre-hanked and with a line lead aft, you could just raise it as needed from the cockpit without having to go onto a pitching deck. If you have a hanked on headsail, set that up with a down haul lead aft and you can manage the entire sail change from the cockpit. Even easier if you have a roller furled headsail.

The SOP is to leave it on the deck in a special bag, hanked to the inner stay and sheets run. When you are ready to use it, you go forward with the halyard and open the bag.

Remember its a heavy are (but not storm) jib, so the conditions should be OK when you go forward.

Capt Gary175 · Feb 22, 2014

With an inner headstay, do you need to rig running back stays to balance out your rig? I read an article somewhere that mentioned that.

Additional forestay

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