Adding weight to the stern to counteract weather helm

[agprice22]

I have a 272. She is tender. She is fastest between 10-15 degrees heel. Her bow sits low at the dock. Add my wife and I (285 lbs total) to the cockpit, and she sits level.
The 272 will round up on you in a 15 or so knot gust with full sails up!
I reef and furl til I have good balance. Then I can sail it with finger pressure.
You got all the good advice you need on sail trim. But reefing and furling really balance my boat best at the helm. I used to never reef or furl on the lake, and I battled weather helm and round ups. I would say above 10-12 kts wind, the 272 will handle better for you with a reef. Then furl to create the balance that you desire. Try it out to find your preference. Maybe you will find you need a second reef in your main?
It is a sweet sailing boat when you get it balanced. I think the 272 is really fun to sail.

 

[Iriegal]

Walt, you kind of hit the nail right on the head with that comment. The tiller is difficult to hold as there seems to always be a fair amount of pressure on it. It's really not that much, but it just makes it a pain in the ass to single-hand. After it was pointed out to me that the stern of the boat sticks up while the bow seems to be lower, I thought that perhaps by adding weight to the rear of the boat, more of the tiller would be in the water, relieving some of that pressure. But there are so many things to consider - first and foremost my lack of experience - that it will indeed be another season of trial and error. Every lesson learned while sailing is a good lesson, though.

 

[Iriegal]

I have a 272. She is tender. She is fastest between 10-15 degrees heel. Her bow sits low at the dock. Add my wife and I (285 lbs total) to the cockpit, and she sits level.
The 272 will round up on you in a 15 or so knot gust with full sails up!
I reef and furl til I have good balance. Then I can sail it with finger pressure.
You got all the good advice you need on sail trim. But reefing and furling really balance my boat best at the helm. I used to never reef or furl on the lake, and I battled weather helm and round ups. I would say above 10-12 kts wind, the 272 will handle better for you with a reef. Then furl to create the balance that you desire. Try it out to find your preference. Maybe you will find you need a second reef in your main?
It is a sweet sailing boat when you get it balanced. I think the 272 is really fun to sail.

Hey, thanks for that comment! Yep, sounds like my girl! What size genoa do you have? Mine is 150%, so I roller-reef in wind above 15 knots. I have never reefed the main (I mostly prefer to just leave the main down when the wind exceeds my bravado), but I will definitely try that this year. After reading all the comments about sail trim, I think that may be the one component that I was missing. If I reef the main, then I can play around with the furler to find the balance I want. Thanks again for clarifying a lot of this for me! And yes, the 272 is a feisty little boat with a lot of personality. Fun, fun, fun!!!

 

[Pat]

We've been sailing our 272 since the Spring of 1987. When we ordered her new we suspected she might be tender because of the draft. We therefore ordered the boat with a 130 genoa and she sails like a dream....Out here in Kansas we have many gusty days...so being able to balance the boat is important. We also learned right away that on the really heavy wind days we would
want to reef the main...and we quickly leaned how to use the single line reef system. So we are pretty aware that the boat can become tender, but by reefing the main and rolling the head sail in to around 100 percent or 110 percent she becomes one
great boat to sail...her demeanor changes from tender to quite balanced....we also use the traveler a lot when it becomes puffy.
You know, every boat has it's quirks....I'm not fond of over-- canvassed boats on their side across the lake and have been on a
Catalina 30 where the cabin top cracked from port to starboard due to being over - canvassed.....just about any boat has it's limits and it is important that the owner be aware of the boats limitations....we could always go out sailing with just one sail, but we've grown accustomed to her need to be reefed and we just plan on reefing. When we ordered the stack-pak main from
Doyle we made sure they reinforced the main and allowed for slits in canvas cover to accomadate the art of reefing with the
single line system.....Patrick

 

[Pat]

also, as a reply to the weight forward issue, on our boat we have the head holding tank under the v-berth forward...I can always tell when it is getting close to full as the water line changes....being a light boat, she is very sensitive to weight distribution....I have been know to keep an anchor at the aft end of the boat in the quarter berth just to help w/weight dist..

 

[agprice22]

I have a 150 genoa. It works well for the commonly light winds we get. Most days around here are 5 - 10 ..maybe.

 

[agprice22]

Do you have a tiller clutch? It can be useful for when you have the boat balanced and want to take your hands off for a moment. I have used the Wavefront Tiller clutch. I like it. I have gotten my boat balanced and had it stay on course for an entire tack across the lake.

 

[Brian S]

In general, a masthead rig like the 272 gets most of its drive out of the headsail. However, when it comes time to reef, one should always reef the main first. I know many people will just roll up the headsail some, because it seems easiest, but it is preferred to reef the main first, then roll up the jib to balance.

A 150% genoa is a lot of sail for most boats. Given the comments of some posters that the 272 is a relatively tender boat (and corroborated by the fact that she's a shoal draft wing keel) I would suspect that your 150 might be overcanvassed for your conditions. Also, as you need to roll up that 150, the shape is going to turn to crap quickly, affecting your pointing ability. Unless you are 75% in very light winds that just get the 150% to fly, you might consider moving down to a 135% in the future. There was a thread over on Don Guillette's sail trim forum (I think that's where it was) and it seemed consensus started to form that UNLESS you're racing, most boats do just fine with a 135%. Also, if you need to roll up the 135, the shape won't go foul on you as quickly.

If you do go ordering a 135% in the future, discuss with your sailmaker having reinforcements sewn in the leech and foot at roughly 110% and 90%. These are the common points you'd roll up the sail to reef, and the reinforcements will prolong the life of the sail significantly. Reefing a roller furled headsail without reinforcements just puts strain on the leech and foot that it isn't designed for, and will stretch it out quickly.

 

[Brian S]

The tiller is difficult to hold as there seems to always be a fair amount of pressure on it. It's really not that much, but it just makes it a pain in the ass to single-hand.

Sailing close hauled at about 10 knots, what is the tiller pressure like? Do you have to pull the tiller to windward about 3-6º? Or more than that? On my boat, I can lean back with my forearms on the cockpit coaming, and the ball on the end of my adjustable Forespar tiller extension between my index and middle fingers, and just steer twitching my hand like that. I look like the pinnacle of lazy and relaxed. It's not too much different when it's windy, because I will tuck in a reef. Or maybe I'm sitting on the coaming, acting like it's a dinghy (which it kinda is.)

If it's more than that, I think you should really look at your mast rake. It's not that hard to adjust. Although I admit pulling cotter pins, not dropping them overboard, and straightening them again to put back in is a PITA. Not as much of a PITA as trying to thread a ring ding through the turnbuckle studs! I have open body turnbuckles, so I use 2 adjustable wrenches. A small one to hold the flat on the stud swaged to the wire so that it doesn't twist, and then a medium sized one with masking tape on the jaws to turn the turnbuckle body. It might be fun to find non-adjustable wrenches of the correct size, but I carry the two adjustables in my onboard toolbox already, sooooo they get the job done. Plus, I only ever expect to deal with turnbuckles at launch and haulout when I mark the headstay, and loosen that turnbuckle. Usually once the rig is tuned, that's it. (At least, I hope so once I fix my sinking mast step. )

If it's windier when you feel lots of pressure on the tiller, then it probably is time to reef.

 

[Jackdaw]

If you do go ordering a 135% in the future, discuss with your sailmaker having reinforcements sewn in the leech and foot at roughly 110% and 90%. These are the common points you'd roll up the sail to reef, and the reinforcements will prolong the life of the sail significantly. Reefing a roller furled headsail without reinforcements just puts strain on the leech and foot that it isn't designed for, and will stretch it out quickly.

When I helped a friend look at a 272 once, I remember that all the doc specifically called/mentioned a 130% as the designed-for headsail. Like in this doc.

http://www.msogphotosite.com/MSOG/pdfpage/oday272.pdf

 

[rgranger]

A bit off topic but only a little.... have you ever played with sheet to tiller self steering? I've done it a few times and was surprised at how well it worked.... and I liked it so much I went shopping for a used auto-tiller. You can set up a decent self steering system for less than $10 worth of parts... and that would let you see if you like it or not. It is nice to be able to go grab a soda or some other such thing without the boat rounding up on you.

 

[Brian S]

Curse you, Jackdaw! You saying you liked the 272 has got me looking at them, and wishing I could get one for down on the Chesapeake!

I like the house and window look of the 272 much more than the 280. At our lake's marina, 24' is the max length. If I came across a nice enough 240, I'd consider one of them to keep at the lake. (Actually a fin keeled Beneteau First 235 is what I should aspire to. Similar below decks layout to the O'day 240 but more racing potential!)

 

[Jackdaw]

(Actually a fin keeled Beneteau First 235 is what I should aspire to. Similar below decks layout to the O'day 240 but more racing potential!)

Indeed, I'm pretty sure the guys at O'day were working from a 235 directly when they drew the 240. It shares so many of the same design details that there is no way its a coincidence. Only oday's fetish with masthead rigs give it away from a distance.

 

[Alan Gomes]

You know, every boat has it's quirks....I'm not fond of over-- canvassed boats on their side across the lake and have been on a Catalina 30 where the cabin top cracked from port to starboard due to being over - canvassed.....just about any boat has it's limits and it is important that the owner be aware of the boats limitations...

No way was such a catastrophic failure caused by merely being "over canvassed." Clearly something else was very wrong with that particular boat.

 

[Ward H]

Curse you, Jackdaw! You saying you liked the 272 has got me looking at them, and wishing I could get one for down on the Chesapeake!

Yep, this isn't helping my "I love me 25" I keep repeating to myself when I read threads about the 272.

 

[Brian S]

Yep, this isn't helping my "I love me 25" I keep repeating to myself when I read threads about the 272.

Ward, after all the work you've done on your 25, you'd hate to have to start over again on a 272! I say one or two more seasons, then go for the 272!

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

A bit off topic but only a little.... have you ever played with sheet to tiller self steering? I've done it a few times and was surprised at how well it worked.... and I liked it so much I went shopping for a used auto-tiller. You can set up a decent self steering system for less than $10 worth of parts... and that would let you see if you like it or not. It is nice to be able to go grab a soda or some other such thing without the boat rounding up on you.

Yes Up to 3 days offshore, and all day in Mississippi Sound. Works nicely.Here's a good tutorial, plus I keep a copy of Letcher's book aboard.

http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml

 

[Pat]

Our 272 LE has always been slightly bow down....I could really not tell by looking at the water line but rather there was always a bit of water in the forward end of the cockpit after a rain with the cockpit drain at the stern of the boat...I also knew the boat was very weight sensitive side to side. I discovered that the side to side weight distribution was corrected by keeping the 30 gallon water tank full. The reason for this was that both batteries were on the starboard side of the boat. Also discovered that the more stuff I stowed neatly in the quarterberth the less the water ponding in the cockpit...The fore and aft issue was also corrected by keeping the head holding tank relatively empty....then I altered my world by installing a 12,000
btu Mermaid AC unit up front under the v-berth insert....back to flowing forward....the deal about this is that the boats are light and very sensitive to weight distribution....now I keep a 12 pound anchor in the aft end of the quarterberth...everything is now normal...I've had the boat since 1986....life is now good....the boat sails like a dream and looks good at the dock..Patrick

 

[geehaw]

I would use sand. Cheaper less mess if break open. I would add bags till it sits level and sail her. If it helps then you have an answer at least. Also after adding all this weight see where she sits in the water in relation to boot stripe. If boot strip is in the water you must have a water logged boat. Or more stuff inside then you realize. As been said 272 ' s arn't known for sitting bow down. Also just to be sure has this been painted and boot stripe not repainted correctly? Just a thought.

 

[Pat]

The original 272 was pretty bare....when they came out with the LE it had wheel steering, diesel, head w/holding tank and two
batteries....the boat was not redesigned for this, but these were just added to the stock boat...Our boot stripe (bottom) has remained approx. 1 inch above the waterline..mostly thanks to my tinkering with weight distribution.. Interestingly, the LE model had full head, (on starboard), 2 batteries on starboard, diesel, 30 gal water tank, wheel, etc. The only item to balance all the weight out was the 30 gal water tank on port. We have loved sailing her since spring of 1987....Jackdraw is right..
the original 272 came with a 130 head sail standard.