Adding Shorepower for first time ??
- Thread starter MrBee
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Slide Lock Out = 24.89
Extra 30A Breaker = $30.99
The Kraus & Naimer CA20-A211-700E is the same switch that Blue Seas sells as the 9009. I found mine on eBay for $32.00... Very nice German built switch. I dislike slide locks because I've been on too many boats with them cracked and not working properly and because you lose an extra two AC breaker slots.
The switch is in the upper right of the panel door:
Thanks Mainsail,
i did find several CA20 switches on ebay but am a little confused, even after looking on the Co. web site. This is a 3 position switch ? on / off / on ? By the looks of the front of it i wasn't sure.http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-KRAUS-NAIME...975?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b4911edf
Or http://cgi.ebay.com/KRAUS-NAIMER-CA...208?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c11bf8838
Brian
i did find several CA20 switches on ebay but am a little confused, even after looking on the Co. web site. This is a 3 position switch ? on / off / on ? By the looks of the front of it i wasn't sure.http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-KRAUS-NAIME...975?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b4911edf
Or http://cgi.ebay.com/KRAUS-NAIMER-CA...208?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c11bf8838
Brian
What you are trying to accomplish
Your on/off/on CB is really
Inverter on & shore power off / all off / shore power on and inverter off
There are two inputs and one output on the back side.
A transfer switch is designed to prevent (100% of the time) the AC power bus being powered by more than one source of electrical energy. You see AC has an alternating voltage and current type setup that changes direction at exactly 60 times a second (60 Hz). Europe uses 50 Hz. If you energize the AC buss with two sources they will not have the exact same voltage and current patterns and will give you anywhere from pure DC at 120 volts or some really odd frequency & voltage combination. They could even compete with each other and you could end up powering your whole dock with your batteries (for a few microseconds before the inverter lost its magic blue smoke). Needless to say you need a way to absolutely prevent the possibility of having 2 sources of power on the same buss at the same time.
Electrical fires are the number one source of fires on boats BTW.
Your on/off/on CB is really
Inverter on & shore power off / all off / shore power on and inverter off
There are two inputs and one output on the back side.
A transfer switch is designed to prevent (100% of the time) the AC power bus being powered by more than one source of electrical energy. You see AC has an alternating voltage and current type setup that changes direction at exactly 60 times a second (60 Hz). Europe uses 50 Hz. If you energize the AC buss with two sources they will not have the exact same voltage and current patterns and will give you anywhere from pure DC at 120 volts or some really odd frequency & voltage combination. They could even compete with each other and you could end up powering your whole dock with your batteries (for a few microseconds before the inverter lost its magic blue smoke). Needless to say you need a way to absolutely prevent the possibility of having 2 sources of power on the same buss at the same time.
Electrical fires are the number one source of fires on boats BTW.
Brian, I think both those switches are problematic. First, according to a catalog I found, they're both 20 amp rated and your overcurrent protection on the shore power side is 30 amp. Second, the first one you referenced is momentary. You'll have to stand there and hold the switch for it to work.
Here's where I found the info:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/69300448/cs_catalogue
Your referenced switches are found on page three.
MrBee, just something to think about. Your shore power provides, when you have all the upgrades like air conditioning and hot water..., power to your receptacles and all the devices. Each of these devices has an individual CB so you can turn it off and on. when you hit the transfer switch the inverter can now power all of them. You typically do not want to be able to do that as it is a great way to either burn out your inverter or drain you batts excessively.
Case in point, using the inverter power to run Air conditioning, water heating, and the battery charger. You typically only want the inverter to run the outlets and nothing else.
To get the transfer switch to accomplish all this is imposable. You need 2 AC busses, one for the outlets and one for the appliances that shore power only can power. You need two additional (hot and neutral) CBs to connect/disconnect the two busses at the same time you throw the transfer switch. So you would need 6 CBs in that setup. 2 for shore power, 2 for the inverter and 2 for connecting the two busses.
I realize that you are just plugging into the inverter directly right now but when you upgrade to a dedicated system that is switched from the panel you are going to have to do an almost complete re-wire to accomplish that. I'd be planning on installing a setup that will allow you to do that by just running the inverter power to the transfer switches to begin with and just don't connect the second source (inverter in this case) till you upgrade. Have everything in place the first time through then run the updated inverter wires to the panel and be done.
Galvanic isolators are only needed when you connect to shore power at a dock where other boats are also connected to shore power. You can build one for about $15. Google has the plans. digikey has the diodes
Case in point, using the inverter power to run Air conditioning, water heating, and the battery charger. You typically only want the inverter to run the outlets and nothing else.
To get the transfer switch to accomplish all this is imposable. You need 2 AC busses, one for the outlets and one for the appliances that shore power only can power. You need two additional (hot and neutral) CBs to connect/disconnect the two busses at the same time you throw the transfer switch. So you would need 6 CBs in that setup. 2 for shore power, 2 for the inverter and 2 for connecting the two busses.
I realize that you are just plugging into the inverter directly right now but when you upgrade to a dedicated system that is switched from the panel you are going to have to do an almost complete re-wire to accomplish that. I'd be planning on installing a setup that will allow you to do that by just running the inverter power to the transfer switches to begin with and just don't connect the second source (inverter in this case) till you upgrade. Have everything in place the first time through then run the updated inverter wires to the panel and be done.
Galvanic isolators are only needed when you connect to shore power at a dock where other boats are also connected to shore power. You can build one for about $15. Google has the plans. digikey has the diodes
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|303333|1233151&id=1233021
would be the switch you may be looking for.
and the panel will be 110v 12vdc combination, http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|299263|319684|1506446&id=1324840
as GFCI plugs will be 110. remember that the first gfci on a run will allow all the downline to be protected and can be reset from the first.
secondly if you are also adding solar or wind as a secondary to shore you will need to have regulators for each and over current protection as well. http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|49497|1471357&id=1392858 this will prevent the panels from over charging the bank and sence the shore powered system and spill the power from the panels preventing any battery issues.
have forsight when working the layout. microwave is seperate circut, as is toaster and coffee maker BUT you can make a split here and top 110 and botttom 110 on double pole breaker with a 12/3 wire run.
you also need to calculate what your consumption needs are at present and where they can endup.
batery bank will also be needed, if your burning your baterys down 75% everytime then you need an additional 25% more added, so the recharge wont be as bad and the huge draw will burn out the cells faster.
if you use 200ah daily you should have 400ah bank on board.
also solar plays into here as does wind, genset, additional alt on your diesel, the combinations are endless and pointless at the same time.
Take time to decide now what you want to endup with, build the foundation to accomadate this end result ie panels, transfer switch, alt power, and shore power.
then add the items as you aquire them and they will plug in to the pre destined spots that you already have waiting them.
if you sell the boat prior then you can sell it with the future consideration for AC and what have you.
again, decide what you want to end up with and build the foundation to handle that, then no matter when you add in you have the system already in place. spend it once, buy it right the first time.
fwiw
Bill
would be the switch you may be looking for.
and the panel will be 110v 12vdc combination, http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|299263|319684|1506446&id=1324840
as GFCI plugs will be 110. remember that the first gfci on a run will allow all the downline to be protected and can be reset from the first.
secondly if you are also adding solar or wind as a secondary to shore you will need to have regulators for each and over current protection as well. http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|49497|1471357&id=1392858 this will prevent the panels from over charging the bank and sence the shore powered system and spill the power from the panels preventing any battery issues.
have forsight when working the layout. microwave is seperate circut, as is toaster and coffee maker BUT you can make a split here and top 110 and botttom 110 on double pole breaker with a 12/3 wire run.
you also need to calculate what your consumption needs are at present and where they can endup.
batery bank will also be needed, if your burning your baterys down 75% everytime then you need an additional 25% more added, so the recharge wont be as bad and the huge draw will burn out the cells faster.
if you use 200ah daily you should have 400ah bank on board.
also solar plays into here as does wind, genset, additional alt on your diesel, the combinations are endless and pointless at the same time.
Take time to decide now what you want to endup with, build the foundation to accomadate this end result ie panels, transfer switch, alt power, and shore power.
then add the items as you aquire them and they will plug in to the pre destined spots that you already have waiting them.
if you sell the boat prior then you can sell it with the future consideration for AC and what have you.
again, decide what you want to end up with and build the foundation to handle that, then no matter when you add in you have the system already in place. spend it once, buy it right the first time.
fwiw
Bill
Neil,
The rating for those CA20 switches in the US & Canada/UL/CSA to 600V is 30A. IEC in Europe rates it for 25 amps @ 690 V.
The actual complete part number that matches the Blue Sea 9009 is CA20-A211-700E. I found mine for very little money. I have the spec sheet I can email you..
I cross referenced the specific eBay auction Mr. Bee mentioned (CA20 A212-620E) to the pdf I attached in post #27. My post was incorrect, I said it was 20 amps, actually it's 25 amps according to the chart. I only referenced the exact part number in the eBay auction with the Kraus & Naimer chart.
Matters little anyway, the auction is closed.
Matters little anyway, the auction is closed.
If you want to buy one on eBay it should be the model # I referenced above as that is the exact switch Blue Seas sells.. It took me a few weeks to find it and I saved over $60.00 by doing so.
ALL the CA20's are UL/CSA listed for 30A but much of the data sheets on the net are referencing European data. Probably easier just to buy one straight from Blue Seas..
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