Adding Rope to Genoa Luff for Better Roller Reefing

[rardiH36]

I've got a bit of time on my hands and thought to DIY install some volume behind the luff of my 135% Genoa so it will perform (and look) better when not fully unwound (i.e. reefed) from the roller furler.

For this purpose, I've heard and read that sewing in a bundle of relatively light polypropelene rope is an alternative over foam rubber. Rope is attractive to me because I have some already at hand.

The number of ropes in the bundle is such so there are more along the middle of the luff length (thus imparting more volume there as the sail is furled) than in the regions closer to the tack and the head. For example maybe 3 ropes thickness added in the center of the luff length then 2 ropes, then 1, then 0 as the bundle progresses up and down.

Does anyone have info, or know where to get it, on how to determine the amount of volume needed, desired volume taper, and its location along the luff?

Thanks in advance for responses.

regards,
Rardi

 

[sailingdog]

Hard to say, since it would really depend a lot on the cut of the headsail to begin with.

 

[Tim R.]

You are asking questions that only an experienced sailmaker could tell you after examining your sail. At which point you should just have him sew in the foam.

 

[Brian M H23]

I have a feeling that just about anything will help. Remember, the new harken furler doesn't need a foam luff - it simply twists the tack and head 1/2 turn before it start reefing the whole sail. It would be a pretty safe experiment to lightly sew one short strand of rope in the middle, and see how it works. If you like it, add a longer piece in addition.

If you want it worthy of sailmaker approval, he'll just say to sew the foam in the luff for his price. So either go cheap and simple, or do it the sailmaker way. But I can't see asking a sailmaker how much rope I need to duct tape to my sail to make it reef better.

 

[Dave Groshong]

Many lofts including Doyle are using rope now in lieu of foam, it is much longer lasting. So instead of calling it a foam luff, they are now calling it a "luff stiffener".

 

[ITMaster]

In my headsail, 155% Genoa

I had my sailmaker (North) sew in three "luffcords." They are polycord and are sewn inside an envelope. There are three different lengths.

I have a luff of about 47 feet. About 10 feet below and above the top and bottom of the luff, the longest starts. Then, the next length starts a little below and above that, and finally the shortest starts a litttle more below and above the preceeding one.

Ok, so when I furl the sail and reduce sail area, I have to keep the sheet very tight and by doing this, it makes a really good tight rolled up sail. What this does by keeping the furled sail tight is reduce the "bulb" effect and allow the air to flow more smoothly past the furled sail.

I can see the effect of this since I have installed multiple sets of tell tales. I have a set slightly behind the luff for the 155, then I measured what would be a 130 and put a set there, and then at about 115 I put a third set.

Before I had the luff cords sewn in, when I reduced sail area, I could see considerable turbulence on the tale tells when I reduced sail area, now I get really nice steady flicks of the tell tales and good smooth flow as well as a much more effeciently sailing boat .

I think you will be very pleased if you get a sailmaker that is a good sailmaker that knows what you are talking about the minute you bring up the subject. You will be very happy with the improvement.

I don't have that fancy Harken furler, mine is a Schafer 3100 and I am very pleased with the set up.

 

[rardiH36]

Thanks for Responses - More Questions and Comments

Thanks all for the responses which are helpful. In particular:

- For IT Master. Your info most useful. Can you estimate the diameter of the three ropes in the bundle that is inside the sleeve? (For info, this afternoon I started the project by making a bundle of three x 1/2" rope. My luff is 43.5' I chose to start 8' up from the tack and 6' down from the head for the longest rope. Then eye-balled tapered in the other two. Not too much different than your 10', considering my shorter luff. )

- For Brian M. Thanks for the duct tape idea. Wouldn't be permanent, but I can use it temporarily to hold the rope bundle in place .. along with some sail thread into the sail for good measure ... I can see the effect of my "improvement" before making it more permanent.

regards,
rardi

 

[ITMaster]

Sure

I'd say they are either 1/2 or 5/8 individually, all three may be 3/4 to 7/8. Then there is the envelope they are sewn inside of, standard piece of sail cloth, in my case dacron.

I was just out this afternoon and evening and had the sail out and could have gone up front and checked, next time I'm out I will although I'm sure either size will work.

Since you are only dealing with a 135 instead of a 155, the 1/2 inch should work just fine. The effect of it is to "pull" the luff toward the top and the bottom at the same time, which makes it lay flat instead of balling up into a bulb tapered out on each end.

 

[rardiH36]

Re: Sure

Dear IT Master:

Again, great info. I did the other night install my rope bundle on the genoa by hand sewing on to the sail just behind the luff tape. And the sail is already up and ready back on the boat. I haven't yet covered the bundle over with a sleeve. Want to see first if the modification does the trick. We've had no/little wind the last few days on San Francisco Bay. But tomorrow 15+ (with gusts to 30) kts is forecast. Should be a good day for the modified sail roller reefing test.

regards,
rardi

 

[kendall]

Looking forward to your follow up!

Don't have roller furling on either of my boats, but I'm seriously considering it, and hope to go straight to the 'best' set up without stopping along the way to experiment.

Currently have four different headsails and would like to reduce the inventory!

Ken.

 

[rardiH36]

Genoa Reefing After Adding Rope Bundles to Luff

Kendall, ITMaster, and Others That Assisted with this Thread

Just returned from a good sail. Depending on where we were, the wind speed ranged from zero up to 15-20 knots just inside the Golden Gate Bridge. Nice clear sunny day. Fairly large swells were rolling in through the Golden Gate from the Pacific Ocean. Made for a fun ride and we sailed back-and-forth along the bridge length several times for the thrill.

The modified Genoa definitely performed much better than before with (say) 5-8 turns still on the furler. At the mid-section of the luff, the bellying out of the sail was much tighter than before with no wrinkles and no fappling of the fabric. However, further down, from the tack and up to about 8 feet , there was still some bellowing and wrinkles. I think adding one more strand of 1/2" polypropelene rope from about 3-4 feet above the tack leading up to just below mid-point of the total luff length of the luff will improve further in the center and along the lower reaches. This will increase the the total bundle thickness to 4 strands at the mid-point of the luff, then tapering down to 1 strand 3-4 feet up from the bottom. (And zero strands at the very bottom.)

It will be about a week before I can again get the sail off the boat again, add the new strand, reinstall and test out.

I'm thinking that any addition of bulk along the luff will give improvement. But it is taking some experimentation as to where and how much.

regards,
rardi

 

[Kent Luxton]

Sailmaker of 30 years

Kendall, ITMaster, and Others That Assisted with this Thread

Just returned from a good sail. Depending on where we were, the wind speed ranged from zero up to 15-20 knots just inside the Golden Gate Bridge. Nice clear sunny day. Fairly large swells were rolling in through the Golden Gate from the Pacific Ocean. Made for a fun ride and we sailed back-and-forth along the bridge length several times for the thrill.

The modified Genoa definitely performed much better than before with (say) 5-8 turns still on the furler. At the mid-section of the luff, the bellying out of the sail was much tighter than before with no wrinkles and no fappling of the fabric. However, further down, from the tack and up to about 8 feet , there was still some bellowing and wrinkles. I think adding one more strand of 1/2" polypropelene rope from about 3-4 feet above the tack leading up to just below mid-point of the total luff length of the luff will improve further in the center and along the lower reaches. This will increase the the total bundle thickness to 4 strands at the mid-point of the luff, then tapering down to 1 strand 3-4 feet up from the bottom. (And zero strands at the very bottom.)

It will be about a week before I can again get the sail off the boat again, add the new strand, reinstall and test out.

I'm thinking that any addition of bulk along the luff will give improvement. But it is taking some experimentation as to where and how much.

regards,
rardi

Dear Rardi, I have been a sail maker for North Sail around the world in so many different lofts I have lost count . I now have my own loft ( and North Sails Dealership) in Picton New Zealand. Rope luff are really effective , of this there is no doubt. How ever to do them properly especially on older sails is really quite tricky requiring the sail to be be spread out tight and smooth. You need a zig zag or triple step sewing machine to sew any sleeves or foam on the sail. If you try doing it with a canvas working machine that only sews straight stitch , that is great for the sailmaker as it will rip along the dotted line ( just like a postage stamp). If it were me , I would take to a sail maker , trust they know what they are doing and save yourself a pile of grief . It does work so definitely don't fret over that question. The roller systems like Harken or Furlex with the swivelling tack and head systems make the rope luff systems even more effective. How's that then
Regards
Kent

 

[rardiH36]

Re: Sailmaker of 30 years

Dear Kent:

Just happened to notice a little while ago your addition today to the thread of several months ago. Much appreciate the new input. And from the few times that I have dropped into a sail loft, I also very much appreciate the knowledge, skill, and feel for the fabric you sail makers have. No way that I ever could even get anywhere close.

My 135 genoa is an older sail ... and being the tinkering sort, seemed not much downside risk to my neophyte and unorthodox "go" at adding the rope luff bundle myself. I've since had about a dozen outings on it, a few with stiff wind. The sail definitely performs and looks much better when furled than before. I hand sewed the bundle into the luff tape with a "more-or-less" zig zag pattern. Took a couple of evenings with the sail laid out while also ignoring the uninteresting shows on the TV. This unfinished attachment is certainly not for the long term. But has been adequate enough to keep the bundle in place for the experiment without yet covering by a sleeve. I always left at least one wrap of the sail on the furler so not to expose the probably inadequately attached rope bundle to the wind. Just last week I took the genoa down (to instead sail for a while with a standard working jib.) The bundle was still attached as it was when hoisted and there was no sign of tearing on the sail. I hadn't yet been thinking about the next steps for the genoa, but on your prompt will take it soon to the nearby North Sail shop for them to access covering with a sleeve .... if I haven't botched up the bundle attachment too bad for them to take on the project. (Maybe I should be prepared for a scolding!).