adding electrical stove

[Rick.johnson]

Hi Guys
I have a 1987 40 ft hunter with the GSI 3 burner an oven that uses propane
an will be replacing it with a new force 10 3 burner + oven electric stove
needing the input power of 220 at 20 amps

The marina mechanic that I talked with said he did not want to do it do to his insurance reason

Has any one out there taken on a project like this an what all is needed
I am thinking a new cord a 220 volt plug in a main circuit breaker an some internal wiring
that would be big enough to handle that type of load

Thanks Guys Rick

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Is there a propane burner located somewhere in this new electric stove ? If not, you will only be able to use the stove dockside due to the heavy amperage draw.

The draw would be in excess of 367A at 12V if you're looking at using your 12V battery supply away from the dock. Sorry to piss on your corn flakes.

 

[jssailem]

input power of 220 at 20 amps

WOW, I was not aware that NJ marinas typically provide 220 AC power to slips. Two-phase power is usually pretty expensive. If you have it, why not flaunt it?

It will be a challenge to add the battery power needed to serve an electric stove/oven.

On the other hand, if you have a generator sized for that power source, you could be golden.

 

[Rick.johnson]

Well I am living aboard my hunter for the winter an would like to put in a new force 10
propane stove for cooking but even a new one needs to be vented because i keep the cabin pretty tightl sealed up to keep the warm air from my diesel espar boiler
so if i keep the propane i need to install a exhaust fan system an it will suck all the heat from the cabin
so i am going with a force 10 electric 3 burner stove 220 volt 20 amp
An if i want to use propane i can fire up the grill on the back an cook outside

or get a bigger converter for i got ( 4 )12 volt batteries each at 600 amps each
pushing out 2400 amp hrs
So any one done a a electric stove installation

 

[mermike]

I was recently involved with an install of a 120 VAC Force 10 electric stove. It has 3 quartz burners rated @ 1200watts ea, but they draw 1300w. The oven was supposed to be 1300 watts, but draws more like 1500 watts. It runs off of a single Multiplus 3000 and an LFP house bank of 600 AH. Running one burner and the oven at full tilt results in an overload warning on the Multiplus. No surprise there. This installation pleased the owner since his goal was to get rid of propane onboard. He was fine with the limitations.

You could power a 220V range off of a single Multiplus or Quattro with an Autotransformer, depending on the current draw. A Quattro 5000 should easliy power it.

 

[Davidasailor26]

220 V will be hard

i got ( 4 )12 volt batteries each at 600 amps each
pushing out 2400 amp hrs

The batteries are 600 amps or 600 amp hours each? Amps is their maximum instantaneous current; amp hours are their capacity over time. 600 amp hour batteries would be absurdly large (larger than 8D), so I assume you mean 600 amps? If so then you could push out a maximum of 2400 watts with the right inverter(s), but you’d still need to put all that power back into the batteries to charge them.

 

[dlochner]

I'm currently involved in an electric galley design for a larger sailboat. A 220v electric stove is not practical for a small sailboat without a large battery bank. We are sort of comfortable with our design that is supported by a 6.5kw generator and 4x 24v 200 ah LiFePO4 batteries and 2 Victron multiplexes.

For your winter cooking needs, I'd suggest a portable single burner induction cooktop (or 2) and an countertop convection over. You may struggle with cooking a full Thanksgiving dinner, however, for most day to day cooking this will be fine, much less expensive than a new Force 10, and not require any modifications to your electrical system.

 

[colemj]

Well I am living aboard my hunter for the winter an would like to put in a new force 10
propane stove for cooking but even a new one needs to be vented because i keep the cabin pretty tightl sealed up to keep the warm air from my diesel espar boiler
so if i keep the propane i need to install a exhaust fan system an it will suck all the heat from the cabin
so i am going with a force 10 electric 3 burner stove 220 volt 20 amp
An if i want to use propane i can fire up the grill on the back an cook outside

or get a bigger converter for i got ( 4 )12 volt batteries each at 600 amps each
pushing out 2400 amp hrs
So any one done a a electric stove installation

Why not go with an induction top instead? Less power and better cooking. You could even get a portable induction top for $50-200 depending on what you want, put it on the existing stove, and keep your propane stove for when you are away from power.

Your battery situation is confusing. Do you have lithium batteries or lead acid? If you have four 600 Amphour lead batteries, then you have ~$12,000 worth of them, because batteries of this type and size and capacity are huge. If you have lithium, this is a reasonable size for those batteries and your planned stove. If you have 600 Amp batteries, these will be small start batteries with ~80 Amphours of capacity, so your bank would be ~320 Amphours. This will not let you operate your planned stove for any reasonable time it would take to cook something, even if you did have an inverter large enough to operate the stove - it will require a 5,0000W inverter minimum. And the ability to recharge the batteries.

If you plan to only operate the stove off shore power and will go ahead with your 220V/20A (4400W!) install, then you really should get an electrician. You mentioned a mechanic declined the job, but this isn't a job for a mechanic. If your boat is wired for 120V, then you will need new breakers for the 220, as well as a new power inlet, and either a new branch circuit for the stove, or rewiring an existing circuit into the new branch.

Mark

 

[dlochner]

220v on a boat in the US is an issue. Do any marinas, besides those who cater to the MegaYachts have 220v at the dock?

The other issue is single phase vs double phase 220v AC. Just plugging 2 50a cords in to 120 sockets may not get you there, you will some device to get the phases in phase.

Outside of NA almost everyone uses 240v single phase which makes life for the electrician much easier.

 

[JBP-PA]

Some 50A service is indeed 220V and is called 50A 125/250, there are two hot wires 180 degrees out of phase just like a typical house (in North America). There is also 50A service that is just 50A 125.

 

[dlochner]

The Force 10 and the European 240v electric stoves are 240 single phase. Finding 240/220 single phase in a marina will be a challenge in NA. The mechanic was wise to turn down the job. If you have 2-phase 220, with 2 120v legs and a ground, it must be converted to single phase for the stove to work.

Alternatively, Force 10 also makes the same stove in a 110v version.

 

[jssailem]

You are correct about the possibility of finding "50A service is indeed 220V and is called 50A 125/250."

My thought is 50A 220V service is not the standard that is so often found by 40ft boat owners when visiting marinas. Here in the PacificNW, it is the 80/20 condition, 80 plus percent of the guest sites are 30A 120V. Some guest sites for the 60ft plus yachts have higher level service. Many are filled. More often than not these big yachts run their own generators to provide uninterrupted service to their owners.

 

[Rick.johnson]

Correct the power supply is 50 amp 125 / 250 volts

 

[ice breaker]

Rick, Are you sure that stove is USA 240V vs europe 240v. I am not totally certain, but the usa uses 2 hots, and I believe the EU uses a single hot?

 

[dlochner]

Rick, Are you sure that stove is USA 240V vs europe 240v. I am not totally certain, but the usa uses 2 hots, and I believe the EU uses a single hot?

That is correct. If you look at the Force 10 website, it only says 50/60 hz 240 AC. However, if you get to the installation manual you will find it is single phase 240v, which has only 1 hot and 1 ground/neutral. It is possible to convert 2 phase (US) 240 to single phase (Euro) 240 but it is not simple nor inexpensive.

 

[mermike]

You could power a 220V range off of a single Multiplus or Quattro with an Autotransformer, depending on the current draw. A Quattro 5000 should easliy power it.

To clarify my statement, the 220V version is Euro single phase and this would not work. You need the 120V US version.

 

[colemj]

You could power a 220V range off of a single Multiplus or Quattro with an Autotransformer, depending on the current draw. A Quattro 5000 should easliy power it.

I'm not sure it will. The Quattro 5000 has a maximum continuous rating of 4000W @25C, and it goes down as temp increases. The OP stated his stove was 4400W.

If it is single phase, I think two Multi 3000's can produce that from 2 phase. But that is a lot of expensive hassle for something that can be solved other ways.

Mark

 

[mermike]

2 burners + the oven = 4100 w as tested, so probably not a good idea. The spec says 3700W, but that's not what we measured. The Quattro can provide power above 4000w for a limited amount of time. However, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

I also want to repeat (louder and with more emphasis) my correction to the post you quoted - the 220V version is single phase Euro spec power, and if the boat is US-wired, it's not what he needs. US 208/220/240 AC power is split phase. He needs the single phase 120V version.

2 Multis can run in parallel, providing 4800 watts at 20°C. That takes a lot of space, and about 18 watts of standby power. A single Quattro would be more efficient and provide enough power for common usage, provided you're willing to accept the limitations.

 

[Rick.johnson]

Thank Guys for all the advise an all the knowledge
For now I think i will take the ez way out an put in a 110 volt 2 or 3 burner cook top an frame it in with some extruded alum to have it sit on top of my existing gimballed propane stove
an put in a better ( 110 volt convection oven microwave ) an get ready of my plain microwave a also my toaster oven So I should be able to pull a added 30 amp cord an set up to dedicated plug in outlet to power them up

Thanks Guys

 

[MFD]

I have seen some pictures from people that did an electric conversion by installing a 110v induction cooktop then a 110v induction microwave in place of the oven. Not as nice as a real oven, but fits the electrical loads much better. Everything still gimbles/swings okay with the weight of the microwave down there. Still have to be careful about not using everything at the same time due to inverter loads if not on shore power.

I have considered similar as moving the microwave would also free up some valuable cupboard space in the galley.
For me, the original propane stove works mostly as an emergency backup cooking system nowadays.
One big use case for me is boiling water. I use the electric tea kettle to heat it up first since that is so efficient, then over into the pot on the portable electric burner for boiling pasta or whatever.