Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydraulic?

[Tom G P-21]

I am towing a Precision 21 with a Durango. The weight of the boat with trailer is approximately 2500 lbs. The axle is new and has the backing plates needed to add brakes. I've towed campers with surge brakes. Our current camper has electric brakes so I have a controller installed and like being able to adjust them. Looking at my options, installing electic brakes on a boat trailer that will see salt water is asking for trouble, can anyone confirm this? Surge brakes would require cutting the existing hitch off and bolting on a new one but they seem to be more reliable in salt water. So I am also looking at another type of brakes that have an electronic controller hooked to hydraulic brakes. Does anyone have experience with these and how well do they work?

 

[CaptDon01]

Earlier this year I needed to repair my surge shoe brake system on the trailer towing our C-22. I don't know anything about trailer brakes, so I went to a trailer repair shop that specializes in boat trailers. I too asked their opinion on going electric so I could apply some braking going down the mountains. I also questioned them about the pro's and con's of shoe brakes vs disc brakes. They recommended going with a disc brake system. One reason is that 95% of my trailer launching is in salt water. They also didn't recommend electric brakes on a boat trailer. They're not designed for constant dunking, and told me they would be a problem,(granted, it was their opinion, and I'm sure there are many happy boat trailers with electric brakes).

They installed stainless steel rotor/hubs with aluminum calipers, and a new surge hitch. They told me the aluminum calipers were cheaper than the stainless steel ones, and either way, in salt water, they need to be replaced every 6-8 years. It was almost as much to rebuild my old hitch and convert it to the disc application, so I went with a new hitch. One issue with disc brakes is that they work equally as well going reverse, as going forward. So they installed a solenoid valve that when I put the truck in reverse, the back-up light circuit energizes the solenoid and stops any hydraulic pressure from the brakes. It has worked flawless over pulling the boat around 6,000 miles this summer with an elevation change of minus 132'below sea level, to over 10,600' crossing the mountains in Colorado. I couldn't believe the difference from towing the boat before with no brakes. It was so much less braking required to stop us. My opinion, I really like my disc brake set-up.

Don

 

[Fred Villiard]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

Hi Tom,

I installed 4 wheel disc brakes, with a Carlisle electro over hydraulic brake controll, in the early ninties and have in excess of 50k miles on it, with absolutely no trouble other than one set of brake pads about 2 years ago. The trailer is for my 22ft Grady and the loaded weight is about 8500 lbs. I've pulled the rig over the rockies, down the Baha to Cabo San Rico, and many trips up and down the east coast.

The disc brakes are Tie Down stainless disc with aluminum calipers, which are origional, and I just wash down with fresh water everytime. Every 2 years I flush the old fluid and put in new.

When I rebuild the Mac trailer with tandom torsion axles I am going to take the disc brakes off the Grady and put them on the Mac with a Carlisle controller. Then put on new vented Disc brakes on the Grady.

I had surge drum origionally, and they needed continuous maintaince, were grabby,and a pain in the rear to back up. Also the hitches wear and cause trouble.

I would not use anything other than electro over hydraulic disc breaks. Just a side note the reason th shifted in the first place was a $350.00 fine in either South Carolina or Georgia, don't remember which, their law at that time that a trailer with brakes must be able to be controled independent from the towing vehical, I don't think that is still in effect.


Fred Villiard

 

[dscribner]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

The problem will probably be cost. Add an extra $400 for the electrohydraulic. I replaced the whole system on mine this year. I went with TieDown due to cost but if I had the money or time I would have gone with Dico or Titan. TieDown is harder and more expensive to repair and I am not impressed with the quality. I went with disks because they ard easier to wash, maintain and see. Stay away from drums.

Don

 

[Tom G P-21]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

Don,
Thanks for the info on the hydraulic with relay, I had forgotten about that option. I am just getting started researching this, my winter project.

Fred,
After dealing with campers I believe the law is, the trailer needs to be able to brake if it becomes detached. The camper has a battery to power the brakes if the brake away switch is activated. If I go with the electro/hydraulic, I have a motor mount on the tongue that I can mount the controller and a small 12v (tractor) battery up high.

Also, thanks both of you for the input about discs and calipers.

 

[Chief RA]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

Don't waste your money, as a trailer so light doesn't have brakes because the load is within the parameters of your vehicles braking capability. You guys love to worry and waste money! Chief

 

[Fred Villiard]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

In the early ninties the law was independent actuation besides breakaway. I have a small 12 volt battery on the trailer for breakaway power.

When I put mine on Tie Down and Carlisle were the only game in town, when I swap the Tie Downs to the Mac, I'll put Titans on the Grady.

Ask the two different people with light trailers without brakes, on wet road DC Belt way this Friday during panic stops. one got away easy it just jack knifed and turned him around 180, the other ended up with his suv on its side and the trailer upside down under a tractor trailer, I just stopped quickley all 8 wheels braking.

Fred Villiard

 

[Benny17441]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

I'm with Chief, putting brakes on a single axle trailer towing 2,500 lbs is an unnecessary expense. Just make sure the brakes on your Durango are in top shape and allow some extra distance from the vehicle in front.

 

[rgranger]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

I went through this same analysis about a year ago. Seems like you can buy 3 or 4 complete break kits (electric) for the price of one surge kit. So I was all set to go electric when I found a decent trailer with surge breaks at a decent price. But when I went to have the surge breaks serviced.... It cost me big time. I could have purchased and installed a complete electric kit for what it cost to service the surge breaks. So... I think if you are good about rinsing off your trailer and breaks after a dip in the salt water... they should last you 5 - 8 or more years and then by the time you've burned through 5 sets of electric breaks ... you will be dead anyway and have a little more money left to bequeath to your kids....

 

[tkanzler]

In the early nineties the law was independent actuation besides breakaway.

That was a State-by-State thing based on a misinterpretation of a federal (DOT, I think) rule requiring brake actuation of trailer brakes with a 'single valve', particularly the foot pedal, which was aimed at trucks with those new-fangled air brakes (the rule goes pretty far back). Since the individual states didn't know what to do about surge brakes, they looked toward the federal rules. It's since been cleared up at the federal level, and the states have been schooled on the inapplicability of that rule (especially if their law referenced the federal law that no longer existed), the upshot being surge brakes are legal in most if not all states, as well as for interstate commerce (which is what started the whole mess) including rental and construction trailers, which was the driving force behind the clarification effort.

http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/archive/break-brakes

Maryland was a particularly strong hold-out, as I think they wrote their own law instead of just referencing the misinterpreted or misapplied federal law, but they've since dropped the prohibition.

http://rermag.com/mag/manufacturers-rental-centers-team-surge-brake-law

Most if not all states require that brakes be set in the event of breakaway, which would mean a battery on a trailer with electric brakes, and the usual pull cable for surge brake couplers, and that hasn't changed. Parking brakes aren't required, as far as I know, though they are in some other countries, like Australia.

 

[tkanzler]

Oh, and as far as brakes on even a light boat trailer, speaking from experience (a few million miles of tractor-trailer and heavy truck driving in a former life), they're not needed when everything is going as it should. It's the times when someone cuts you off, or you try to avoid a large piece of junk in the road that you didn't see because the truck in front of you straddled it, or an animal runs across the road, or a car is going the wrong way on I-95 in the NYC area (saw that a few times), or whatever. You'd be rethinking the lack of brakes on the trailer except that stuff happens so fast you can only hang on and go for the ride, after which you'll have plenty of time to ponder the lack of brakes. Hopefully.

Just one man's opinion. :neutral:

 

[rgranger]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

I guess I should have said something about my surge breaks.... they DO work very well. I've never had electric breaks so I can't comment from first had experience. As I understand it, the electric breaks will only work if I have my foot on the break. My surge breaks activate anytime the trailer tries to push my car. That is a nice feature.

On the other hand, I have a bear of a time backing up my driveway. There is a pin that is supposed to allow me to turn the breaks off when I'm backing up. But mine is defective and pops out anytime I pause. I guess every thing is a trade-off.

 

[Tom G P-21]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

Benny and Chief, I know that I am not required to have brakes on the trailer. The thing is that we are trailer sailors so everytime we go out we are towing. Also, every summer we have a 400 mile trip through some congested highways and it would be nice to have the brakes. Finally the tow vehicle is my wife's primary car so she usually drives while we are towing. She has said, multiple times, that she would like to have brakes on the boat trailer. So that pretty much means that I should put brakes on the trailer. Note, she drove cross country, back and forth towing a pop-up, with brakes.

 

[dscribner]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

A complete set, rotor, actuator, lines, spindels and bearings, is about $450. It takes a long afternoon to install. Thats pretty good peace of mind. We tow about 5500 pounds every weekend. Brakes are a must.
0

 

[Chief RA]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

Your wife tows the boat! Chief

 

[Rick Webb]

Somthing to Consider

The disk brakes take significantly more pressure to activate than do the drums.

On a lighter trailer that could mean that you do get braking action as soon or as gently with discs as you would with drums.

 

[dscribner]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

Chief,

Don't know who you were talking to but, yes, my wife tows the boat (drives the truck) on occasion. She also backs it into the water and retrieves the trailer while I ready the boat for pulling. And she's a 5'-9 slim, sissy girl. The boat and trailer weigh in excess of 5500 lbs.

Don

 

[Sumner]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

Surge discs, the only way to go for us. I have a car hauler trailer with elects. and like the surge on the boat trailer much more. They just flat work. Surge drums still present the problem of all the parts that make up a drum brake rusting and not working. Elect is cheaper, but maybe only a couple hundred less and the first time you replace them you are now not ahead any more and they just might stop working when you need them the most, such as just before a long tow home.

A majority of the states do have laws that say you need brakes if the trailer is over 2000 lb. and I really agree with tkanzler.....

It's the times when someone cuts you off, or you try to avoid a large piece of junk in the road that you didn't see because the truck in front of you straddled it, or an animal runs across the road, or a car is going the wrong way

Leaving more braking distance is of course always wise but doesn't protect you from the situations he mentioned or more "say a kid running out into the street".

Most of the surge disc kits that I know of come with a reverse lockout solenoid that wires into your backup lights and allows you to backup with no problem and they also usually have the option of putting in a lockout pin (takes a few seconds) if you don't want to wire that or say you are backing up with the trailer wiring unplugged. Ours...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/trailer-mods-index.html

...came with both and we use both. The second axle and brakes and a good tow vehicle make towing the boat cross-county almost painless,

Sum
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[Crazy Dave Condon]

Re: Adding Brakes to a Trailer, who has used Electric/Hydrau

Tom;

AS a former small boat dealer to include Precision which I sold many as I use to be a top dealer, states vary on the requirements for the trailers. If you live for example in SC, TN, etc., they do not required titling and registration on a boat trailer but it better be pulled with the tow vehicle from those states; otherwise, you could be fined. I once towed back a SC boat an trailer with a NC plated truck and was ticketed. Although I got out of that fine as I was the dealer bringing the boat back to be worked on, I was given a warning not to do that again. In other words, each state recognizes each other state's laws.

If you feel for safety that brakes are warranted, then by all means install them. I use to do this for most of my customers as the 2500 lbs is a lot of weight and in most cases, the weight is more with the motor and personal affects being added but not counted on when in most states, brakes are required when the total weight of 3000 or more is reached. In addition, I have seen boats sway nearly causing a crash without brakes as either the center of gravity is too high and/or the weight is mostly concentrated in the rear which of couse is unsafe. A good example is the Catalina 22 wing keel trailer without brakes which the driver nearly lost that one when I reached over with my foot to accelerate to pull the sway out and then told the driver to brake slowly and pull over and let me drive. From that point on I had brakes on all Catalina 22 trailers.

As for the brakes, you will find that drum brakes are becoming a thing of the past as the disc brakes are much better for a lot of reasons. As for surge over electric, electricity of any sort does react with water and has a lot of problems. Stay away for the electric as it will cost a lot in repairs. I strongly suggest the surge brakes.

Backing up will activate the brakes unless you do something to prevent that sliding of the hitch itself from pushing in. I use to insert a screw driver to prevent that from happening but now you will find on the newer modern surge brake assemblies a pin which is attached to insert into a hole, button that does in affect the same thing as a pin or a brake solenoid to prevent the trailer itself from sliding forward on the trailer tongue which would activate the trailer from braking when backing up.

One of the things I found the major probles with trailers, most folks never serviced their trailers. Just like a boat and motor, you need from time to time to inspect and service as necessary. A good example If emersing into salt water, then wash off every time to help prevent corrosion from salt. Another example is simply looking at the fluid resivouir.

I hope this helps in your decision process.

crazy dave condon

 

[Meriachee]

We warped a rotor on the truck coming down the hill into Denver when we picked up the C270. The trailer had brakes on one axle which was perfectly legal. I'd consider that a starting point on so many levels. The trailer will have it's third axle installed in the spring, each 6k, and each with brakes. Call that crazy if you will, I can say from first person experience that the hill coming into Kamloops BC (insert any of a few hundred mountain town names) is long, steep, and full of runaway lanes and crazy drivers who want nothing better than to get to the next coffee shop and don't give a damm about you or your boat.