Adding ballast to e33
- Thread starter GreggL
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"Just an Idea" try lead shot
You can try lead shot from your local sporting goods store....Glass in a damn at the front or rear portion of keel sump. Make a card board template first. Avoid covering over the keel bolts. Glue in pvc inserts at bottom to extent the weep holes to main bildge sump area. This is the time to increase size of weep holes if you had been thinking of doing so do it now. Then first fill the areas with the lead shot, Use a slow cure epoxy but not to slow. Make sure you get the right ratio.You want the epoxy to be able settle to bottom allowing for any air bubbles to escape. Keep slowing pouring in small amounts of epoxy till it tops out. Once done and hardened the lead will be completly and safely encapsulated in the epoxy. BTW....Be patient...I have had the slow cure epoxy take as long as a week to cure even up to 6 weeks. Just depends on the humidity and temperture. Be carefull of the vapors that it will give off as it cures. Whats good about letting it slow cure is that the epoxy will be much less brittle when done.
"Just an Idea"
You can try lead shot from your local sporting goods store....Glass in a damn at the front or rear portion of keel sump. Make a card board template first. Avoid covering over the keel bolts. Glue in pvc inserts at bottom to extent the weep holes to main bildge sump area. This is the time to increase size of weep holes if you had been thinking of doing so do it now. Then first fill the areas with the lead shot, Use a slow cure epoxy but not to slow. Make sure you get the right ratio.You want the epoxy to be able settle to bottom allowing for any air bubbles to escape. Keep slowing pouring in small amounts of epoxy till it tops out. Once done and hardened the lead will be completly and safely encapsulated in the epoxy. BTW....Be patient...I have had the slow cure epoxy take as long as a week to cure even up to 6 weeks. Just depends on the humidity and temperture. Be carefull of the vapors that it will give off as it cures. Whats good about letting it slow cure is that the epoxy will be much less brittle when done.
If you want a better pointing boat don't buy one with a shoal draft keel. That is kinda the trade off, performance for access to shallow water. course if you put enough shot in her you will have a draft problem but get your performance back (
Lead
When my boat was new I had a list D's and gen in port cockpit locker and so they added about 300 lb's of lead to balanace it out but it drove me crazy adding all this wasted weight and took out the strips of lead and moved the batteries to starboad and it's great way if you want free lead strips my old lead laying over here on eastern LI.
I just moved them the other day to hold down a canvas for under my motor home and OMG just lifting 1 or 2 was heavy and said OMG this all was in my boat weighting me down.
If it was me know way i am adding all that wasted weight and just learn to reef reef,I new a guy had a 33 north shore LI and loved the way it sailed and fast too,don't do it with lead maybe add a extra water tank or add batteries or gallons of water or ????? but that's me.
I like when my boat H-36 sails fast andd hate adding anything that will change the wat she sails.
Nick
When my boat was new I had a list D's and gen in port cockpit locker and so they added about 300 lb's of lead to balanace it out but it drove me crazy adding all this wasted weight and took out the strips of lead and moved the batteries to starboad and it's great way if you want free lead strips my old lead laying over here on eastern LI.
I just moved them the other day to hold down a canvas for under my motor home and OMG just lifting 1 or 2 was heavy and said OMG this all was in my boat weighting me down.
If it was me know way i am adding all that wasted weight and just learn to reef reef,I new a guy had a 33 north shore LI and loved the way it sailed and fast too,don't do it with lead maybe add a extra water tank or add batteries or gallons of water or ????? but that's me.
I like when my boat H-36 sails fast andd hate adding anything that will change the wat she sails.
Nick
Yup.. a set of proper sails adjusted correctly is the best solution to heeling/handling/maneuvering problems.. If you are set on hurting your light air performance by adding ballast above what the designer intended, the best avenue is to add lead "torpedos" to the bottom of the keel. Ya take a couple of long lead bars and make the things streamlined on the ends and thru bolt them to the bottom of the keel on both sides.. should look like two long halves of a torpedo bolted down there.. The Mars Keel folks can help you if ya really want to do that too.
http://www.marskeel.com/repairs-modifications/stability-bulbs
http://www.marskeel.com/repairs-modifications/stability-bulbs
GreggL, I must admit that everytime I go out on the water with my new e33 I am learning the nuiances of sailing her. Every boat, even within same models, have slightly different handling characteristics and takes sometime to get use to. I have a deep keel and an in mast main, so this boat may be significantly different than yours. We have just returned from a month long cruise in the Canadian Gulf Islands and along the Sunshine Coast. We experienced many conditions which I found the boat to handle very well. I will say there were times that I had to make more than one sail adjustment to achieve a comfort level. But that was primarily due to the skipper's (me) learning curve than the boat design.
The e33 has a B/D ratio of approximately 29%. For production/performance boats designed and built since mid 2000 this is well within the margins. Lightly ballasted boats rely on their hull form to provide resistance to heeling and generally need to be reefed earlier to remain under control. This is a fact. However, reefing does not necessarily equate to slowing down. This boat has a distinct advantage in light air. Maybe you could further define your last sentence of your post in order to gain assistance, as I find it to be somewhat broad in nature.
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Reefing
Within the first year or 2 I found that I really need to reef early and that the boat would heel way too much when the wind pcked up around 15 plus and if all sails were full and not only that but the boat would slow down too.
I first learned on a trip from BI back to greenport the wind was constantly increasing with my sails full at first I was doing 7 knts but as wind speed increased to 20 kts the heeling got bad and the auto would kick off and so single handed I point in more and started reefing my inmast on the fly and about half in on the main she was back up to 6.5 kts and auto back working so if the auto won't hold course I know I am over sailed and need to reef back up to speed.
Nicck
Within the first year or 2 I found that I really need to reef early and that the boat would heel way too much when the wind pcked up around 15 plus and if all sails were full and not only that but the boat would slow down too.
I first learned on a trip from BI back to greenport the wind was constantly increasing with my sails full at first I was doing 7 knts but as wind speed increased to 20 kts the heeling got bad and the auto would kick off and so single handed I point in more and started reefing my inmast on the fly and about half in on the main she was back up to 6.5 kts and auto back working so if the auto won't hold course I know I am over sailed and need to reef back up to speed.
Nicck
Sorry for the broadness of my question. Specifically I have some issues with the sail plan in relation to the boats ballast and characteristics. I do reef early, sometimes even too early when the winds pick up, but it doesn't seem to help. I can barely sail under the main alone and when I reef down to even 25% of each sail, I'll just fall of course, and not make any distance. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground, and I've been out in winds from 3-30something knots. I don't feel like I'm in danger per se but I can't get comfortable sailing in any condition.Hello Below said:
GreggL, I highly recommend that you take your boat out with an experienced and knowledgeable sailor for an independent and unbiased assessment. FWIW and take this numbers with a grain of salt ... but, the displacement to LWL ratio for the new Hunter 33 (e33) is 218, which in today's hull design is considered heavy. The in mast sail area (SA) is 542 sq ft, thus the SA/D is 16.2 which is almost in the centre of the cruiser design. The capsize number is 1.92 (relatively good) and motion ratio is 24 (not uncomfortable compared to similar types). I am sure that those with a whole lot more expertise than I (minimal) will jump in on this post.
Agree
What Hello Below said plus only because sounds like your dealer????? so maybe after some one with long sailing experience maybe it is not tuned proberly and needs to be checked,what you are saying just doesn't sound right.:naughty::naughty:
Didn't this boat get all kinds of wards or great write ups.
Nick
What Hello Below said plus only because sounds like your dealer????? so maybe after some one with long sailing experience maybe it is not tuned proberly and needs to be checked,what you are saying just doesn't sound right.:naughty::naughty:
Didn't this boat get all kinds of wards or great write ups.
Nick
Yea it got a lot of hype. But I think something's wrong and it certainly wouldn't be the first time. From what I understand mine may have been the last off the line at hunter before work stopped, which I don't have to tell you is not a good sign.
And have already taken it out with two separate professional captains on a number of occasions. One of which will be continuing to work with me. I can't speak for them but from what I gathered, my sailing performance is on point so that shouldn't be much of an issue.
Speed isn't my main concern, my wife hates being tossed around though. And if she doesn't like it then I'm screwed. You get the message. Just trying to find a way to make it as stable as possible.
And have already taken it out with two separate professional captains on a number of occasions. One of which will be continuing to work with me. I can't speak for them but from what I gathered, my sailing performance is on point so that shouldn't be much of an issue.
Speed isn't my main concern, my wife hates being tossed around though. And if she doesn't like it then I'm screwed. You get the message. Just trying to find a way to make it as stable as possible.
Before you make a permanent mod, try adding some temporary ballast with a dozen 5 gallon jugs of water or bags of sand. Even 5-600 pounds down low in the boat will make a noticeable difference on how she rides in heavy air. While not a permanent fix, at least you can verify if it helps and just how much ballast you think is good. Alternately, just get 5-6 more people on the boat for a daysail and feel the difference a 1000 pounds of moveable ballast makes. If you and your wife are the only people on her while sailing, you aren't even close to its max weight capacity.
If you are suspicious of it being a builder issue, get her weighed and compare your actual weight to what Hunter published.
While adding weight will make her slower to accelerate in light air, a heavier boat will maintain momentum better in heavier air.
If you are suspicious of it being a builder issue, get her weighed and compare your actual weight to what Hunter published.
While adding weight will make her slower to accelerate in light air, a heavier boat will maintain momentum better in heavier air.
There may be something there that I had not considered, additional weight in the boat. Only on 2 occasions can I honestly say that I was uncomfortable with the heel angle. Both my doings.
The 1st, a screwed up tack in 20 kt winds and gusting caused the boat to heel over more than I liked. However, I think in that case it was more the extreme change of heel from one side to the other rather than the actual angle of heel in itself. Port 20° to something more than Std 20° and a lot of sail loffing and confusion at the end of the tack that was the issue. Once the boat picked up speed she leveled out nicely. The 2nd was in winds of 28 knots and close hauled. The knot meter read 7.6 kts STW. The winds came up gradually and I just wanted to see what she would do. I had complete steering control so the rudder was still doing its job. Both times I had full sail out. But I do normally carry a full water tank (500 lbs) and full fuel tank (250 lbs). I also have 5 batteries fitted (340 lbs). So just maybe this is the difference in tenderness from what you are experiencing. Keep in mind that by definition strong winds start at 20 kts. Other than those 2 occasions the boat has been comfortable. Not as comfortable as say a 35’ Island Packet; but, more comfortable than a 28’ Tanzer. Just as one would expect.
GreggL, do you have an inclinometer fitted on the boat?
The 1st, a screwed up tack in 20 kt winds and gusting caused the boat to heel over more than I liked. However, I think in that case it was more the extreme change of heel from one side to the other rather than the actual angle of heel in itself. Port 20° to something more than Std 20° and a lot of sail loffing and confusion at the end of the tack that was the issue. Once the boat picked up speed she leveled out nicely. The 2nd was in winds of 28 knots and close hauled. The knot meter read 7.6 kts STW. The winds came up gradually and I just wanted to see what she would do. I had complete steering control so the rudder was still doing its job. Both times I had full sail out. But I do normally carry a full water tank (500 lbs) and full fuel tank (250 lbs). I also have 5 batteries fitted (340 lbs). So just maybe this is the difference in tenderness from what you are experiencing. Keep in mind that by definition strong winds start at 20 kts. Other than those 2 occasions the boat has been comfortable. Not as comfortable as say a 35’ Island Packet; but, more comfortable than a 28’ Tanzer. Just as one would expect.
GreggL, do you have an inclinometer fitted on the boat?
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