Adding a bowsprit

[tommays]

While you can do a lot at the chainplate area most masts are built around the fittings and would require spending money to save money ?

 

[Mtwo]

I just pickup up my Selden bowsprit. I haven't mounted it yet as I need to have a bracket fabricated. The only reason that I added a bowsprit is to get the cruising spinnaker out in front of the boat and in front of the furler.

 

[larryw]

GP- at the end of the day, you'd still have a production boat designed for coastal sailing, only now with a lot of extraneous shiny bits. I don't see how any of that would make your Hunter 33 more suited to anything more than what it was designed for, but I do see it more vulnerable. Have you contacted Hunter, spoke to the NA?

 

[Freebird15852]

Hunter 33 Bowsprit Project

Hi Gary,
I'm David Underwood, owner of Freebird (1982 Hunter 33) with the bowsprit project. I will be happy to help you out with what ever information you might need. My boat is located on Lake Lanier in Georgia. If you are anywhere in the area, I would be happy for you to take a look.

I have learned after 5 or 6 years of use...
My back no longer hurts from pulling up a well bedded anchor. I no longer have to dig in the anchor locker in order to drop anchor. I can sit with my feet in the anchor locker and pull the anchor up by hand without any problem. It makes an excellant diving board. No one wants to take my "right of way" with the SS Anchor Roller / Bowsprit on the front of my boat. I would not have made it any different. I am that pleased with the way it turned out. I spent a good bit of time designing, getting it constructed and installing it, but it has been worth every hour I spent. I also was able to save money compared to the price of a "ready made bowsprit".

Let me know if I can help you in any way.

Sincerely,
David Underwood
Freebird - 1982 Hunter 33 (original owner... 28yrs and counting)

 

[dah]

Done most of what you are thinking of doing.

Look over the bow pulpit and conversion to cutter rig among other modifications. Look them over at ahsovereignty.com. Will happily answer questions.

David Hoyt

Hello all,

We Purchased a 78 Hunter 33 a few months back and I have been doing a lot of research on all types of things to attempt to make it as safe a possible for long range cruising. Lately I have been focusing on standing rigging. I am leaning towards some "none standard" ideas. One being replacing all the Old SS cables with High Tensile Galvanized cable with eye spliced ends. Having way more time then money, I plan to learn and practice tying my own eye splices. I am also thinking about replacing the SS turnbuckles with bronze.

Intertwined in this whole process of research, I have had some questions about changing the "stock" standing rigging layout a little. One being replacing the split back-stay with two full length (stern to masthead) cables.

Second, I have a hanked-on foresail so I will have to use SS for the fore-stay. I would really like to add a bowsprit to allow for mounting anchor rollers. In this process I have had the thought, why not add a second fore-stay in front of the one already in place that the foresail uses. This could be attached to the mast head to the new bowsprit, then bob-stayed to the hull. And this fore fore-stay could be in the High Tensile Galvanized like the 2 back-stays and shrouds. Giving me redundency in my fore-stays like I would have in the back-stays.

Can anyone tell me if any of this is a bad idea and why?

I am new to sailboat ownership and have a degree in mechanical engineering so, I am prone to trying to build a better mousetrap

 

[mad monk]

I have a Snapdragon 26, which has an added sugar scoop stern (making it 28' LOD). A bowspirit has been added, which allows me to use the original jib from the original headstay or a huge genoa/gennaker/a-symetrical from the bow spirit. I really enjoy the freedom to use whatever sail works best. Most of the time, in heavy trades, the original jib is the choice. But in light air...

 

[Joe]

Joe: I only have the degree, I am not actually a practicing one. Which is even more dangerous most likely I will keep the Tri-sail track and boom gallows ideas in my list of things to think about! Extra cockpit drains are on my list of things to do. I am not sure exactly what you mean by "Bridge Deck", the cabin entrance is higher and inset from the cockpit area on the 78 Hunter 33. And I have had thoughts of adding swing out doors to the entrance but just not sure yet. Having extra boards would be very wise though. I have never been very fond of the cabin entrances on most sailboats but really not sure anything else really works.

Yep, that sounds like a bridge deck... re the washboards... I am not suggesting you install swinging doors. They are normally unsafe for offshore work... what I am suggesting is a simple method to lock the boards in place from either inside or outside.

Now here's my take on galvanized rigging and thimbled eyes.... UGLY... why would you mess up a totally beautiful classic plastic just to save a couple of bucks. If you're going to carry norsemen type fittings anyway, why not bite the bullet and invest in a few more, purchase some good quality rigging wire online and make your boat beautiful and safe?

 

[ahmetb]

Hull Strength

Ahh, I understand what you meant about the swages now. Still not sure about how the deadeyes would work though. I assume your talking about these : Deadeyes

I do plan to increase the rigging diameter which will require beefing up the chain plates and fore/aft stay attachments.

One important consideration is that if your boat is not a heavyly constructed, overdesigned boat, such as the Hans Christians Lord Melson Tayana etc, you will find that any oversizing of the chainplates or beefing up the rigging will be useless since you will star flexing the hull and moving the bulkheads out of place.
There are pretty good resons, besides economics, why the rigging of a Hunter, or Catalina or most other production coastal cruisers, si the way it is.

By the time you beef up the hull and the bulkheads to support the extra tension, you will have added extra weight which, in itself will need other modifications.

 

[RichH]

One important consideration is that if your boat is not a heavyly constructed, overdesigned boat, such as the Hans Christians Lord Melson Tayana etc, you will find that any oversizing of the chainplates or beefing up the rigging will be useless since you will star flexing the hull and moving the bulkheads out of place.
There are pretty good resons, besides economics, why the rigging of a Hunter, or Catalina or most other production coastal cruisers, si the way it is.

By the time you beef up the hull and the bulkheads to support the extra tension, you will have added extra weight which, in itself will need other modifications.

The additional reactive compressional loads on the mast (and compression post) can be tremendous (due to the trigonometric multiplication of loading values) .... and the mast, etc. therefore should be seriously reevaluated for BUCKLING failure, etc. So therefore, adding structural members which can induce more stress and without compensating for the 'structural reactions' can result in a very 'unbalanced' structural design.
Typically a designer will 'start' with projected maximum loads .... eg. theoretically & mathematically pulling at the top of a mast to induce heeling at a 45 degree angle, apply the appropriate and applicable IMPORTANT safety factors, and then work out the strength characteristics of the WHOLE structure. By adding additional rigging, etc. on a completed design .... will REDUCE the overall structural *Factor of Safety*. Failure due to such modifications will most probably invalidate your insurance policy, etc. etc. etc.

 

[redhead78]

Hey Rad how do you open your anchor locker, where do you keep chain and line?? Red

 

[Aussie]

Hi Blokes and Shelias, what a great forum this is, I am about to do a big modification to the bow area of the 37 this year and here is a great lot of info about the very subject. Personal opinion, on any performance boat like a Hunter and others, SS rigging is the way to go, too much loading for Gal.(it's not an old pearling lugger) Windage, weight and Stretching is just to name a few things to think about. The question that caught my eye was the twin backstays, there was no comment on this. I am installing a furling Spinnaker this year and the twin backstay idea was on my mind as well, and wondered if any of you think that it would be a sensible thing to do. The boat Will be going offshore, but I don't want to add windage or weight if it is not needed. I think the designer has done a great job with the original design, but times and outlooks change, so not wanting to take the forum away from GP, your thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers and Happy Sailing Jeff

 

[Aussie]

P.S. I will be installing doors to the cabin at the same time for ease of entry, BUT the lockable washboards WILL be staying, a must for safety, coastal or offshore. Jeff

 

[Brian M H23]

I don't think there is any corrosion problem with galvanized and stainless mixed. Stainless steel fasteners go into steel engine blocks on most any marine engine and they don't seem to corrode. I would just make sure to regularly (every year or two) inspect the wire inside the fitting and make sure the galvanization is still present.
The beauty of a swageless mechanical fitting is that you CAN take it apart and inspect the wire in the fitting.

 

[RichH]

Hi Blokes and Shelias, what a great forum this is, I am about to do a big modification to the bow area of the 37 this year and here is a great lot of info about the very subject. Personal opinion, on any performance boat like a Hunter and others, SS rigging is the way to go, too much loading for Gal.(it's not an old pearling lugger) Windage, weight and Stretching is just to name a few things to think about. The question that caught my eye was the twin backstays, there was no comment on this. I am installing a furling Spinnaker this year and the twin backstay idea was on my mind as well, and wondered if any of you think that it would be a sensible thing to do. The boat Will be going offshore, but I don't want to add windage or weight if it is not needed. I think the designer has done a great job with the original design, but times and outlooks change, so not wanting to take the forum away from GP, your thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers and Happy Sailing Jeff

My thoughts are that a redundant double backstay system is a good safety measure. The caveat is that both of the backstays 'should' have independent attachments to the mast head. The reason being that if they are pinned to a common attachment and that common attachment breaks .... .
Consider a super-high tech polymer for these backstays - lighter weight aloft, etc.

Of course, instead of adding an additional backstay, you can consider to add super high tech running backstays ... more versatile, and can duplicate the intent of adding a second backstay. A 'traditional approach' using modern materials.

 

[SamLust]

Been there, Done that

I have done the things you ask about on my 1983 Hunter 33, with the exception of galvanized rigging. That would be a giant step backwards. A waste of time and money and probably dangerous in the hands of an amateur.

I changed the split back stay for individual stays going to the masthead. I no longer smack my head and shoulder on the wire.

Your turnbuckles are not stainless. They are chromed bronze. Unless some P-O changed them.

The way to save money on rigging is to do it yourself, not compromise on material. When I did my rigging I had the upper fitting swaged on and completed them by measuring, cutting and terminating the bottoms with mechanical (Sta-Lock) fittings. Next time I'll do mechanical on top as well. that way I can just order a length of cable and cut and fit myself.

I made up an anchor platform laminated of mahogany. 18" wide by 48" long by 2" thick, epoxy glued and screwed with 128 ss screws # 10 X 1 1/2". Later I moved the head stay out onto the platform 18". It is attached with about 12 bolts, several of which ho through the hull/deck joint. It ain't moving.Stem fitting and platform (bow sprit) fittings made up by Garhauer. The platform fittings are the pieces they make up for Island Packet. I reinforced the stem where the bob stay attaches with 6 layers of stitch mat and epoxy, overlapping at the stem for 12 layers. Moving the stay forward gave the boat some manners in higher wind. I've had it out in lots of heavy wind without a hint of trouble.

In one of the other posts doors in place of drop boards were mentioned. I I added swinging doors and love them. I hate drop boards. The way I set my doors up I can still use the drop boards in addition the the doors.

 

[Aussie]

Hi again, thanks for the info, RichH I like the backstay idea you put forward, will have to look into the polymer info,if you have a site to look up I would appreciate it. I also agree that independent attachment of the stays is the way to go, will have to look at it from aloft and decide on mast out or leave it in for the challenge. I think the single stay is safe enough, but I am looking at a heavier air spinnaker as well as a light air one, so I think the added safety of twin backstays is worth the investment, and head knocks.
Sam the doors are good, just the thing,ease of in and out and I am doing the same, glad you made it so the drop boards are still able to to used, well done.
GH, seen a lot of rigging in my day and cheap does not work.Saving by doing the work yourself is not a problem as there is always someone around who has done it before and willing to help, GAL is the past, look at saving a few hundred somewhere else and go for the SS, your sleep will be less troubled. Have your problem with the bowsprit idea, but a lot of good info has been put up by our fellow boat owners, so have a few ideas to go on with. Thanks to all for the feedback, Happy Sailing Cheers Jeff

 

[Aussie]

P.S. RichH, interested in the running backstay concept as well, any info on it. Cheers Jeff

 

[Brian M H23]

Running backstays are great except in one scenario - downwind in heavy air. A gybe will send the boom into them, and seriously stress the rigging (look up Abby Sunderland)

The purpose of running backstays is that you can't have a fixed backstay with a gaff rig. On a marconi rig? Running backstays are for the race boat.

 

[RichH]

Noooooooooo, not at all, running back stays are primarily to change the oscilation frequency of (long distance) CRUISING boats so that the 'mast pumping' (induced harmonic vibration) doesnt become so violent that the mast 'falls down'.
Racers also use runners to help 'trim' the forestay tension - a damn good idea, even for 'kroozers'.

 

[RAD]

Redhead78
If you look close you'll see I cut the anchor locker door in half and I sectioned off the forpeak with an access door for the chain and rode.
There's just enough room with the door open to get the old Fortress and 200ft of rode into the locker as a backup system