Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower available?

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
I know just enough about wiring to make myself look stupid. (Boats in general, really.) Can we add an inverter to a boat that has a shore power connection with several A/C outlets so we can use the battery with them? Shore power will only rarely be available and those A/C outlets are sooooooo appealing.

Thanks!
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,109
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

You can run the output of the inverter to the shore power plug you would use while at the dock.
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Great to know. Will my friendly neighborhood retailer know what inverter and connections I'll need?
 
Sep 5, 2007
689
MacGregor 26X Rochester
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

you'd better research inverter and generator connections to circuits also energized by shore power. Bonding requirements are different, and you'll probably need some sort of transfer switch, which will be able to make/break the neutral/ground bond as well as the other poles. There's more to it than meets the eye, but I'd rather not go into it more, and let those who know those systems well give specifics. I just wanted to give you a heads-up that it's probably not as simple as it seems at first blush.
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,773
- -- -Bayfield
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

You don't want to have your inverter running when you are connected to shore power. You only want to use it when not connected. They run off of your battery. If you are connected to shore power, you don't need an inverter anyway because all of your outlets will be hot.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

Hey Kermit. The job is not that complicated IF you know 120 volt AC wiring. Batteries power the inverter which power the wall outlets. remember that a 120 volt appliance that draws 3 amps will cause the invert to draw 30 amps (120*3=12*30) from the batteries.
So having an inverter means more motor time charging the batteries. Depends on how much AC you use though.
As for sizing the inverter you need to know your house bank size and what you intend to run off the wall outlets.
There is also the issue of having the inverter AND shore power on at the same time. Very bad for appliances. You need a selector (yes they cost a lot) switch that switches hot and neutral on both sources at the same time. So batteries to inverter (12 volt), inverter to source selector switch (120 volts) AND shore power to source selector switch. The from the switch to where ever you puled the shore power leads off of.
also, also you can't run the water heater (electric side) or the battery charger with the inverter so you probably need some way to lock or isolate those circuits from inverter power.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,783
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

Kermit, the "issue" is to make SURE that you never have the inverter ON when shorepower is connected, and vice versa.

The newer inverters have automatic transfer switches built in to them. If you want to use your existing outlets, this is what you need when you buy an inverter.

If not, you'll need a manual transfer switch.

Go read the www.bluesea.com website. You'll learn a lot.

Be careful.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,812
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Size

Depends what size you are looking for and I have a 2500 freedom inverter/charger and the manual that comes with it has about 4 different installions thatthey explain to you.
And you will need a good battery bank hooked to the inverter depending on what you want to use.
My inverter has a line that goes to the outlets and I can run my microwave
plug in electric coffee maker and computer and TV but I have a big battery bank 4-6volt batteries 440 AH's.
Nick
 
Dec 16, 2006
353
Hunter 25.5 Cayuga Lake, NY
Kermit, The best way is to work the problem backwards. Start with your end result which is your ac power needs. Make a list of appliances you want to power in watts. Figure out what your highest combo of loads will be and figure on doubling that wattage for inverter max load. Now use your load list to calculate your storage needs vs recharging availability. Then you can tackle wiring and switching knowing what your cabling and amp loads are.

I realize these points are very broad references.

Research Research Research and make a plan.

The "plug it into the shore power inlet" is the best KISS suggestion I've seen yet.

I just finished mine ending up with a 1000w pure sine wave running off a 210ah bank, does just what I needed.
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
I'm learning a lot here. To clear one thing up, I have no intention of trying to use the inverter and shore power at the same time. So not to worry. I found the bluesea.com website and plan to study it.

The boat currently has one cranking battery and one house battery. I can't help but think more batteries may be in our future. The good news is that our power requirements are normally low. We're talking small fans and phone chargers. (I won't mention the coffee maker since y'all will certainly remind me how much current they draw.)

To recap what I've learned and now know... What I want to do is possible and I have lots more research to do on how to make it happen. Refer to my original post if you can't understand why I don't feel any more knowledgeable than you think I should at this point.

I'll ask more questions as I get into the project. Thanks!
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,675
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I'm learning a lot here. To clear one thing up, I have no intention of trying to use the inverter and shore power at the same time. So not to worry. I found the bluesea.com website and plan to study it.

The boat currently has one cranking battery and one house battery. I can't help but think more batteries may be in our future. The good news is that our power requirements are normally low. We're talking small fans and phone chargers. (I won't mention the coffee maker since y'all will certainly remind me how much current they draw.)

To recap what I've learned and now know... What I want to do is possible and I have lots more research to do on how to make it happen. Refer to my original post if you can't understand why I don't feel any more knowledgeable than you think I should at this point.

I'll ask more questions as I get into the project. Thanks!
These types of inverters, I call them "automotive type" are not intended to be hard wired to your vessels AC system. Any inverter used on a vessel should also meet Marine UL standards, specifically UL458, plus the marine supplement testing, which is referred to as SA or UL458-SA. Most inverter only options DO NOT have marine UL rating. Also most stand alone inverters, & I currently know of none, have a built in marine wired auto-transfer switch which would make them suitable for connection to the vessels existing AC system.

The easiest and least expensive way to add a stand alone "automotive-type" inverter to your vessel is to simply add an inverter, and fuse within 7" of house bank positive terminal, and preferably an ON/OFF battery switch as well, and just use the inverters built in outlet or add one or more sub outlets that are tied only to the inverter.

This keeps the inverter isolated or installed as a stand-alone unit from the ships AC system and becomes easier and significantly less costly to install.

If you want to wire an inverter, one that not intended for feeding the vessels AC system, it into the ships AC system, it gets more complicated, more expensive. It requires an expensive transfer switch (Kraus & Naimer style) and a very, very solid understanding of marine grounding and neutral/ground isolation & bonding in regards to shore position and inverter position.

The correct method for installing a marine inverter is to install one that is specifically designed to feed the vessels AC system adn one that has been specifically built for this type of marine use. These are almost always a marine "inverter/charger" not a stand alone or isolated inverter only device.. Marine I/C's break neutral/ground when it should and bonds neutral/ground when it should and they do so automatically. These I/C's are more expensive because they are specifically designed and tested to meet Marine UL 458SA safety standards. Installation of any inverter should always follow ABYC standards. AC is deadly and the vast majority of inverter installations I see out there are NOT SAFE INSTALLATIONS..

Inverters not designed for marine use, that lack auto-transfer switches, must use a shore/inverter switch that transfers the AC connections properly.

On a small boat an isolated or stand alone inverter installation works best and is a keep it simple approach. Currently I know of only one stand alone inverter that meets marine UL standards, and that is the Xantrex ProWatt series. It would still require a transfer switch if you were to wire it to the ships AC system which I strongly advise against with an "automotive type" inverter...

If you are looking at just phone chargers, computers, small fans etc. then I would urge you to stick with 12V devices as they will be significantly more efficient charging on 12V than rather that converting from DC to AC than back to DC.. Efficiency gains can be as much as 40% improvement sticking with 12V..

12V sockets and USB insert chargers for your phones are dirt cheap these days. We charge everything aboard with the 12V system such as phones, iPads, iPods, iPhones, laptop, hand held VHF, GPS etc. etc....

Also keep in mind that inverters are energy hogs and your battery bank and charging system need to be able to support what ever inverter you choose.

Wiring & over-current protection must also be sized for the SURGE loads not just the maximum running watts. For example a 2000W inverter can pull over 4000W for a short duration when starting motors or other loads that have in-rush. Thus the wire is much larger than folks often assume it is.

A typical calculation looks like this for a small 800W microwave when accounting for battery voltage sag and an inverter inefficiency of about 20%:

1350W / 11.8V = 114.4A X 1.20 = 137.3A

Bump that to a 2000W load and..

2000W / 11.6V = 172.4A X 1.20 = 207A

 
May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

You can certainly go two ways; the expensive and the inexpensive. If you want to go with a high watts inverter/charger hard wired via a transfer switch to your a/c 120V distribution panel be prepared to dish out a couple of grand. For an inexpensive solution I would recommend a 750 Watts inverter hard wired to your house battery bank with the positive (+) wired fused for protection. The beauty of 120V ac power is that you can plug in an extension cord and transfer power 25' away from the inverter unit without any significant loss. Rather than fabricate an extension with a plug to connect to the boat's shore power inlet or install a transfer switch and hard wire into the 120V panel I would recommend rather inexpensive extension cords where you can connect desired appliances or lamps. A 750W inverter will allow you to play a TV and DVD player and burn a few lights at night. Some smalish microwave ovens could be operated as well. Do your homework on the installation, operation and capacity and efficiency losses of inverters so you may size one properly for your needs.
 
May 10, 2004
180
Catalina 30 Puget Sound
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

With only one house battery, using the inverter a lot unless underway, will surelly cause you grief with a dead house bank.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,606
Frers 33 41426 Westport, CT
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

I would go with Maine Sail's advice on this... I don't have any shore power hookup, but I added a 600/1200w peak true sine wave inverter last year, and wired it to a dedicated outlet in the cabin. I also do 90% of my device charging from 12v outlets to conserve power, but it's really nice to have the inverter for those occasions where 12v isn't an option, or practical like a laptop, or a corded drill...
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

If all you are doing is charging cell phones and running a fan then you really don't need an inverter. One more thing to break. Just add a 12 female outlet to the electrical panel for the chargers. I have one at the binical to run the odd crews ipod and that is quite handy.
As for fans, I've found that the battery powered ones to be the most handy. Run for a about a week on 2 D cells and quite cheap.
 
Sep 28, 2008
922
Canadian Sailcraft CS27 Victoria B.C.
You can certainly go two ways; the expensive and the inexpensive. If you want to go with a high watts inverter/charger hard wired via a transfer switch to your a/c 120V distribution panel be prepared to dish out a couple of grand.
A hard wired inverter (or inverter/charger) need not be very expensive. For example the Xantrex 1800hd is around $500. 1800 watts AC and 40 amps charging. It has an AC transfer switch built-in. If you have a proper AC panel with the double pole 30 amp main AC breaker it is pretty easy. After the double pole breaker the hot output feeds the rest of the breakers and the neutral the neutral bus. Remove these 2 jumpers and the main switch output goes to the inverter, use 10 awg tinned wire. From the inverter the output goes back to the panel where the main breaker used to go, also with 10 awg wire. Install the inverter close to the batteries to minimize the cost of the 2/0 wire from the batteries. Add an ANL fuse near the positive battery post and you are finished.

As Maine and others posted if you are only charging some items 12 volts makes sense. On the other hand if there is a microwave or other high usage item the inverter makes sense.
 
Mar 8, 2009
530
Catalina 22 Kemah,Texas
Even simpler

You can get an inverter that plugs into the cigar lighter plug. No need to do any wiring and cheap.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,606
Frers 33 41426 Westport, CT
You can get an inverter that plugs into the cigar lighter plug. No need to do any wiring and cheap.
Despite what they may print on the label, those are limited to about 100w of output due to the limited amperage you can pull from the lighter plug, and the size of the wiring that supplies the plug.

I have one of those I use in my car now and then, and they do work fine for small devices, and sometimes can even power a laptop, if it is a lower end consumer device (higher end business class devices use higher wattage chargers and batteries, and have faster recharging times, which understandable draw more power), but they are not comparable to a permanent installation of a inverter hardwired into the batteries with heavy gauge wiring and wired outlets around the boat.
 
Dec 13, 2010
123
Hake 32RK Red Bank
Re: Add inverter to boat w/ shorepower, no shorepower availa

First ask what you need the AC for. If charging is what you are doing its more efficient to go DC outlet to device. If you have a small house bank, perhaps you only need a portable inverter for a specific appliance-they are cheap and readily available but power ratings tend to be low. If you really want an inverter to power the AC outlets while underway you will need an isolation switch and inverter. A little wiring on the AC side and the DC side is really all it takes. The closer to the batteries and AC panel the less the wiring. Any manufacturer will have a schematic showing the wiring details probably in their marketing/sales material.