A thought on dripless packing gland

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Tom

Colin, How would you "blow out" a stuffing box

Its a hunk of metal.....do you mean if the actual Flax goes and it leaks alot....I think most bilge pumps could handle the ingress
 
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Colin Wightman

Ah! That's the problem...

I was visualizing the situation that Hank was describing: A 1.25in shaft in a 2in log tube open to the sea. As you point out, that isn't likely to occur with a traditional stuffing box...So the problem with my brilliant solution is that solves a problem that probably doesn't exist! This is what comes from spouting off ideas without first crawling into the boat to see if it actually makes sense...
 
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Dakota Jim Russell

Come on guys I haven't heard of one failing

Like lightening trouble does strike . . . but haven't heard of dripless failing with all the contacts that I haveare. 1. Besides, as you look at a 2 inch hole (outside, not inside), remember that it is filled with a 1 inch filler already . . . or did the drive shaft fall out. 2. In a remote sailing site as I'm in, lightening could do the same job knocking out the depth sounder . . . . and no one would notice. 3. So I buy insurance for both
 
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Carl

Have heard of One

Yeah, I was over-dramatic, deliberately, because I think this is a situation that sailors need to recognize the real danger of failure and be prepared to handle it when (not if) it happens. What concerns me is the possibility of many sailors not really understanding what we as engineers know as "mechanical seals" and how to live with them. First, yes, I have heard of one failing; no, I can't remember where; I thought it was on this site (??); perhaps not. But that doesn't matter. It WILL happen. It's not the "happening", but the manner in which it happens that is the concern. When they fail, they fail suddenly, without warning, and catastrophically. The water will be coming in fast enough so that it really won't matter whether you are 200 miles offshore, or 2 miles. As Gene mentioned, mechanical seals are used in our industry for the same reason that they are adored on sailboats; when operating properly they are totally and absolutely leak-free, and that is essential with hazardous chemicals. We live with their mode of failure by rigorous preventative maintenance; we replace them on a periodic basis at fractions of the mean failure time. We never give them a chance to fail precisely because of the consequences of their catastophic mode of failure. Unfortunately, this level of rigorous preventative maintenance is not likely to happen on our sailboats, either due to time or the replacement expense. We use the dripless teflon packing on 'Syzygy' and will continue to do so, and replace it when it needs it. We know that we will have considerable warning of the need to maintain. It's a pain, but with my professional history I just can't live with mechanical seals and sleep well. Those of you who elect to use the dripless mechanical seals; PLEASE recognize the manner in which they fail and be prepared to handle the event. I apologize for the soap box, but I am concerned about the possible lack of recognition and understanding of these type of seals. Carl s/v 'Syzygy'
 
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Dakota Jim Russell

Thanks Carl, Points Well Taken

I think your point is well taken. There is a risk, and a reward. But to ignore the risk is stupid whether its sky diving, sailing, or even the dripless packing <grin>. I, for one, appreciate you putting the risk in perspective so that those thinking about it can make an intelligent choice.
 
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Miles

Also remember...

The dripless teflon packing material is a small fraction of the price of a mechanical dripless seal. It seems to be just as effective at keeping the ocean out of the boat which is the point after all. I will have to admit that it's not as "sexy" a solution. There's no stainless steel or rubber or anything visible at all. You won't impress your dock neighbors much but often the simplest solution is the best. Happy Holidays to all!
 
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Tom

Carl, ...You make very vaild points...and maybe it

is best to "caution" everyone into vigilance.....I think your concerns are prudent and wise....if you have a "mechanical seal" you should at least understand what it is about .... With that said I had a PSS shaft seal on my old Boat and I loved it...yes the Stainless donut did "vibrate loose" once and scare me with water engress (easily fixed by pushing it back down and retightening the grub screws!).....AND you know what...today on my new boat, I did not go to the expense (and hassle) of putting one on even though I seriously thought about it....I just put in Goretex (?) dripless packing...and you know what it works great too....and no water.... Also yes I HAVE heard of one failure of a PYI shaft seal( I think it was a Catalina owner....and I explained what happened on my post on 12/21...I am not sure if it was originally told here)...but boats get holes in the hull too......its rare , but everything can happen on the water....we must all be self sufficient..
 
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Don Alexander

Have Faith!!

Have faith guys - its that time of year. They make these dripless glands and if boats were sinking the manufacturers would be sued to blazes. Yes I had trouble with a Deep Sea Seal gland. This is one where the bellows rotate on the shaft and could get snagged on anything in that area. In fact the bellows did NOT fail but they pushed up the shaft. I complained and ever after the makers recommended TWO jubilee clips to hold the bellows to the shaft. Now I have a PYI supplied by Whitlock here in UK. Much stouter bellows which do not rotate as they are fixed to the log tube. I cannot visualise how the rubber could fail and would rate the overall reliability equal to or better than the packing types. At least they don't score up the shaft, and a dry bilge with no mildew is worth a lot to me.
 
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Tim Schaaf

Why?

I guess I just can't figure out why anyone would go to the bother and the expense of fitting a dripless seal when the dripless stuffing for the conventional stuffing box is so effective, easy, and relatively inexpensive. And yes, in my job as Marina manager, I have known the seals to fail. Another comment....it is prudent to think out solutions ahead of time, and I have found many of the suggestions interesting. But, I would caution against being quite so glib about hopping overboard and shoving stuff in from the outside. I know of more than one person who was killed, doing exactly that, when the stern came down on his head in a swell. Actually, in the most dramatic case, the boat was about fifty miles offshore, the guy was killed instantly, and the wife did not know how to sail. She had to be taken off by a cruise liner on its way here to Cabo. Yes, there are times when there is no other solution other than to dive under the boat with a swell running, but don't invite it. That is why I also have Spurs on my shaft, to avoid the hassle of cutting away lines from my prop. By the way, ten years ago I contemplted installing a Lasdrop, but the boatyard cautioned against doing so on an older boat. They said that much depended on the shaft being aligned exactly in the center of the shaft log, and said that on many older boats this was not quite the case. I could see that mine was not quite centered, by the way. Anyway, I have never heard this comment before or since, but it came from a very good boat yard in whose interest it was to do the work of installation. My final comment is that if you tend to be in remote areas, as do I, you really need to think of not only quick fixes to emergency problems, but what to do next. If you have to replace your teflon stuffing, well that is a lot easier than hauling the boat and ordering a new Lasdrop or PSS! Particularly in the third world! Happy holidays, and I hope everyone stays afloat in the coming year.
 
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Edward Kennedy

Old Hoses and new bellows

A few thoughts, if you haven't heard enough yet! After hearing the "what ifs" for a bellows failure on a packless seal, I noticed that nobody metioned that there would be the same massive failure if the hose holding a traditional stuffing box fails. I've inspected the hose on my boat, but I'm planning to replace it because it's 21 years old, and I don't trust it anymore. For those with PSS seals, after you are sure that the collar is in the right position, take out the grubscrew, put a detent in the shaft with a drill, then locktite the screw back in. Now the screw won't loosen up, and the collar can't slide away from the bellows.
 
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