A question please

JoeWhite · Aug 25, 2011

If the wind is turbulent - I normally hold the main sheet in my hand and I am ready to blow the main.

Stu Jackson · Aug 25, 2011

In my C25, I'd usually head up.

sinnettc · Aug 25, 2011

With my Capri 22 tall rig I have the same issue - reef around 15 or spend the day at a 45 degree angle. I have a windward sheeting traveler - first I dump that, then head up and last I'd let the sheet run. In real gusty conditions I might bring my jib cars back and let off on the vang so the main twists off more (I have a boomkicker so vang controls sail shape a lot). I might also flatten the main as much as possible, though that reduces speed.

Don Guillette · Aug 26, 2011

Sublime: Sinnettc is providing good advise. An occasional gust is easy to deal with whereas sustained gust are a pain and a lot of sail trim control work. There are a couple of mainsail controls you need to work with. The first is the traveler. When hit by a gust and when the boat heels over just just drop the traveler. What you're doing is changing the angle of attack. Joe White is doing the same thing with the mainsheet - I prefer the traveler because the shape of the sail doesn't change as it does with the mainsheet. After the gust passes you merely crank up the traveler to its former position and off you go. If the gusts are frequent, you should induce twist in the main and jib by using the boom vang and fairleads. With the top 1/3 of both sails spilling air and losing power you won't be setting any speed records but you won't be working your butt off messing with controls plus it will take a bit more time for the boat to start heeling.

If there are sustained gust, you're in a situation where the wind is almost blowing at a consistent speed and your setup should be that both the main and jib are as flat as possible. A flat sail is a less powerful sail and if that configuration doesn't work then your only alternative is to reef.

So, in very simple terms, the way it works through the full range of wind, is in light winds you start out flat and as the wind pipes up you gradually induce draft depth and then when you get to about 12 knots you start to flatten down by taking the draft depth out of the sails. Just before you flatten down completely you induce as much twist as you can. If that doesn't work your next thought is a flat sail with reefing in the back of your mind.

Actually, your conditions are not much fun to sail in.

Kings Gambit · Aug 26, 2011

If you want to keep your speed up in the gusty conditions you describe, going up wind I presume, tension your main out-haul to flatten the main some, tension your back-stay adjuster to flatten the top of the main, and tension your cunningham to bring the main draft forward to reduce weather helm. When the gusts come, lower the traveler to leeward as others have said to ease pressure on the helm, and if that's not enough, "feather" the boat into the wind a bit to flatten the boat. This is essentially pinching the boat, but in moderate to strong gusts the boat does not lose much speed from pinching. It probably loses more speed from healing over too far than from feathering. Use feathering to work to windward, especially toward a windward mark. Feather up in gusts to make progress to windward and to flatten the boat, drop back in the lulls. Of course, the size of your jib is important too. If you're in 15+ knots, you should have a No. 2 or No. 3 up on your boat.

Sam Salter · Aug 26, 2011

1st:
Depower the rig:
Outhaul; main halyard or Cunningham; backstay (if you have one); twist off the top.
Bring the genoa cars back (if you have any); Tighten foresail halyard.
2nd:
Dump the traveller in the gusts or on a 260 dump the main sheets (not as good as you have to retrim in the lulls)
3rd:
Reef if all else fails!

Personally, I think luffing up slows the boat down, so I would only do it as a last resort.

Stu Jackson · Aug 26, 2011

Actually, your conditions are not much fun to sail in.

Aw, shucks, that's when it's just startin' to blow and becomin' FUN!

Don, Great and succinct description. Heck, ya oughta write a book!

Alan · Aug 27, 2011

Not having a traveler for instant de-powering is a severe handicap. Dumping the main sheet means a sudden power up and a dramatic loss of speed. You need to have all your controls if you expect to handle all weather and still make descent speed. A cunningham is an easy upgrade and to offset the missing traveler you need a powerful vang. The vang can keep the leech closed while the mainsheet controls angle of attack. You may also want to have a dedicated storm jib for those 15+ knot days. A partially furled headsail is awful in bigger wind.

Don Guillette · Aug 27, 2011

Sublime: OK, no big deal, you just have to make use of the controls you do have. The cunningham is the opposite of the halyard and both are used to adjust DRAFT POSITION. Why would you want to adjust draft position anyway? The reason is that as the wind pipes up it pushes the DP aft and in effect powers up the sail. You should try to keep the draft position at about 50% or below in the conditions you're sailing in. I hate to use these terms (draft position, draft depth) that you may not be familiar with but it's the sailing terms I'm stuck with. Like with flying, I might not like pitch and yaw but I'd be stuck with it so a mate has to learn the terms of the subject they're dealing with. If a sailor doesn't understand draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack and know which sail trim controls for the main and jib are used to adjust those element then sail trim will never make any sense. Sublime, in other words, buy the book and chart!! When you finally digest and put the stuff into practice you'll know more about sail trim than 75% of the sailors worldwide!!

To other beginners and intermediates lister, another reason to buy the book is that you'll at least have a clue as to what guys like Alan, Stu J, RichH, Scott and Joe from San Diego are talking about in the articles they write on the sail trim forum. Remembering back to when I first got involved in sail trim - I wouldn't have the slightest idea what they are talking about. Sometime I still don't - just kidding!!

A back stay adjuster is another sail trim control you can do without. I've got to keep this simple as discussions on backstay adjustment take on a life of their own and go on forever. If you bend your index finger that is what happens when you bend a mast. The knuckle area of your finger is pulling the fullness out of the middle of the sail thus flattening it - reducing draft depth. When you straighten your finger the fullness goes back into the sail. Unfortunately, I think you don't have a mast that can't be bent. All you would be able to do is rake the mast back. The boat now thinks you picked up the mast and moved it aft and that induces weather helm, which you don't want.

The primary sail trim control for angle of attack is the traveler. The secondary control is the mainsheet so your OK there. I assume you have an outhaul. That control takes the fullness out of main and makes it flatter.

Is your boat a fractional or masthead rig and what is the size of your jib? Do you have fairleads? Let's assume it's a fractional and the jib is a 110 or 120 and the fairleads are fixed. In that case, you can't adjust it anyway so use the jib sheet to depower.

When you're hit by a gust ease both the mainsheet and jib sheet. Just for fun, the next time a gust hits you and before easing the sheets, try heading up toward the eye of the wind. It's called pinching but you don't want to go too far because you'll stall the sail. After the gust passes just fall back to your original point of sail. With the next gust, try easing the sheets. Now you have two methods to use in your sail trim bag of tricks.

Old Stu J is used to those crazy conditions in San Fran. Here's what I like - a sunny day, 10 knots of constant wind, about 15 degrees of heel, my wife catching rays and reading a book, me with a cold "tinney" in my hand and enjoying a grinder or hoagie (depending on where your from) and steering with my foot on the wheel, all telltales streaming, Jimmy Buffet singing a tune - LIFE IS GOOD!!

Kings Gambit · Aug 27, 2011

Well, with no traveler, cunningham (or cringle for one), or back-stay adjustment, that still leaves you with a couple of other ideas. As the wind pipes up, increase luff tension on your jib and main, if you can. W/o a cunningham, maybe you can use a boom down-haul if you have one in combination with your main halyard. Open the slot between the jib and main if you have outboard sheeting options. Ease your main sheet as needed, etc. Ultimately, however, the main is not going to help you all that much if the wind gets too strong and you're going to weather. Your drive will be from the jib b/c the main will mostly be luffing from back pressure at the sail luff. If you're going to go far in those conditions, then you may as well reef the main if you're already down to your no. 2 (120) or 3 (100) jib. I don't know how you're marking your speed through the water; i.e., speed log or excitement level, but if the wind is truly near or is gusting frequently to 15-20, knots, for example, and the boat is heeling over far most of the time and you cannot control it by the methods mentioned above in your replies, you'll actually increase speed through the water by reefing the main, assuming this can be done well.

Most of the time from my observations, it cannot be done well b/c the boat's rig and the mainsail are not optimized to work together well as a unit especially in "just sail-away" purchases. The boat owner has to think about how to properly reef the boat long before it's required, and to do some testing to get it all set up to go. However, if you can reef the main and preserve its proper shape and put the loads in the right places, the boat will flatten out and that alone will increase its speed over what it was doing prior, plus you may be able to get some drive off the reefed main.

Most people (beginners) think the boat is going fast when it's heeled over far--that's the excitement factor. Actually, it's going faster when it's flat, but it doesn't feel that way. Also, once the wind is so high that the main is just luffing, you're not getting any drive from it anyway. You're just wearing it out needlessly.

Kings Gambit · Aug 27, 2011

Sounds like you could use a flat reef system. I used this on my Pearson 30 when I didn't want to pull the sail down to the 1st reef point. It's not that hard to install and it's quick to use and fairly effective. My advice--talk to a sail maker or rigger to put one on the boat, and your problems may be solved!! Also, I think there is a product available that's essentially a trailing speed log. You hang it over the side for a little while and it gives you your speed through the water. But I haven't seen one around for quite a while.

Kings Gambit · Aug 28, 2011

One doesn't buy it as a brand; it's not an off-the-shelf thing. Your main sail and your boom have to be modified to be capable of doing a flat reef. The boom will probably need a cheek block and cam-cleat installed on it; the main sail may need a cringle on the leech if there's not one now that can be used. Just talk to a sail maker or rigger as I advised and that person can set you up with a design, if he/she feels it will be viable on your boat.

Stu Jackson · Aug 28, 2011

Go to the Harken website, they have great rigging diagrams.

Sam Salter · Aug 28, 2011

Sublime,
Alan mentioned it previously, but it looks like it got lost in the conversation.
With no traveller, you're probably better off vang-sheeting.
Use the boom-vang to set your leech tension / twist. Use the mainsheet to dump power in the puffs without loosing your sail trim. Essentially reducing your mainsail angle of attack. When the puff passes sheet in with the sail trim already dialed in.
Eventually though as you embrace the "dark side" you're going to want to add a few (or more) trim controls. It's too late now, your infected! This is going to cost you $'s!!!

Joe · Aug 28, 2011

Sublime said:
No kidding!

I plan on getting it.

Anyway, I should have mentioned...my boat is not equipped with a traveler, back stay or a Cunningham, nor do I have a cringle to add a Cunningham.

Add a cunnngham cringle.... later you may find a traveler in your budget,

But.... a cunningham, rigged with a 4:1 or 6:1 purchase, control line aft to the cockpit, will allow you to depower the mainsail significantly. Not only by moving the draft foward, but because you are fractionally rigged with no backstay, a highpowered cunningham can actually bend the mast allowing you to further depower the sail. The cunningham is a much faster adjustment than reefing.