A look at Peak Sails for the C-22 (Pics)

Leeward Rail · May 24, 2015

I'm in the market for new main.
Looking at that website they don't show loose-footed mains ? Was that a possible option ?

Which leaves the question... why did you not get a loose footed main ? hehe

Cheers,
Roy

CaptDon01 · May 24, 2015

Nice looking sails, (love the sound of chrispy new sails!). A lot of the racers have gone for the two full battens on top, and two standard battens below. My "new design" C-22 has that batten set-up, but I haven't tried it out yet.

Not to be nit-picky, but the C-22 insignia is incorrect, not a big deal, and most folks probably wouldn't notice, but the correct C-22 insignia is posted on the attached photo.

Don

Leeward Rail · May 24, 2015

CloudDiver said:
Yes... Asian Sail Loft. Can't win em all, lol!

North Sails: factory in sri lanka
Hyde Sails: factory in Phillipines
Rolly Tasker: factory in Thailand
Doyle, Elvstrom, Ullman, Momentum, UK Sailmakers: all made by "China Sail Factory"

I wonder if China sail factory made yours ? They make for a lot of "lofts"

Nils T · May 24, 2015

Doyle sails in Florida are made at the store in St Pete.

jmczzz · May 25, 2015

I recently received a very competitive quote from this loft located in Canada. The specifications are exceptional and they offer extra discounts and free options because they are trying to expand their US market.
James
http://www.precisionsailloft.com/
Precision Sails Ltd Unit 128 - 1047 Langford Parkway, Victoria, BC V

Leeward Rail · May 25, 2015

Nils T said:
Doyle sails in Florida are made at the store in St Pete.

How do you know that ?
And if they do, I would assume it's just a small subset of them.

China Sail Factory usually takes the design suppllied from Elvstrom-Sobstad, Doyle etc. and makes it according to their specs, and put the "loft's" name on it. The end user would never know the difference.

My point was, that China can make good products. They made my macbook pro for example.
Chinese factories, like any other business, make products to a target price.
You want cheap ? They do cheap. You want quality ? They do quality.
Many North American think that "Asian made"=rap, yet the reality is much different.

It's like the older people who still cling to the idea that "domestic" vehicles are better. Especially when most of the actual parts and content on a USA vehicle are not from the US at all. My Subaru has more US built components than 99% of the so called US vehicles.
I run an Automotive shop. Based on reliability and maintenance, there are few domestic vehicles I'd buy.

North America was eclipsed in manufacturing skill a long time ago.
Short of a few small exceptions, unfortunately that train left the station.

Check the yachting monthly article I posted previously in this thread. It's interesting reading.

Leeward Rail · May 25, 2015

jmczzz said:
I recently received a very competitive quote from this loft located in Canada. The specifications are exceptional and they offer extra discounts and free options because they are trying to expand their US market.
James
http://www.precisionsailloft.com/
Precision Sails Ltd Unit 128 - 1047 Langford Parkway, Victoria, BC V

Thanks for the suggestion James.

I just placed an order with Precision.

Sail should be here in 5 weeks after measurements are done and my design choices are finalized.

They were kind enough to bill me a $150 deposit now, to get the ball rolling, and the rest in 2 days, so that most of it will show up in my next credit card billing cycle.

They get paid now, but my actual credit card bill for the majority of the cost, won't show up until I actually have the sail. Works good for both of us.

I should mention they also have a payment plan, for those who need it.

They also have a deal where they will beat a competitor's price by 5%, with "same for same" cloth, stitching etc.

Leeward Rail · May 25, 2015

CloudDiver said:
It is difficult to overcome that kind of stuff that is on the internet. ....
In my opinion they delivered on all their promises.

My biggest constructive suggestions would be that they make a more clear statement on their webpage that they are not the same company that has an 'F' from the BBB. I would also suggest they clarify the 25 days from build to ship date, as people will assume they will have them delivered in 25 days. I wasn't upset about the 9 weeks at all, I didn't even notice how quickly it went by.

Yeah. As anyone has followed the whole "Yelp" saga knows, the internet is a nasty place to deal with business reputation issues. While the BBB is a group that a business can contact to get clarity put into the listing, other online complaint sites, or BBB mirroring sites, are full of old stuff, and in many cases, simply whining about nothing. It's an art to be able to read between the lines.

In regards to delivery times. I find it interesting that so many online companies seem to like to say "our build time is ##" as a marketing tool when that's not completely accurate.
Sure, they may get an order because of delivery time, but then the customer is mad because something else wasn't included that figure. I even ran into that from some of my suppliers. I always talk to a company directly to get the complete story.

The opposite example would be buying my rudder. Ruddercraft knew exactly how long it be before it was built, and had shipping time, weekends, etc all figured into it. I wish every company was that good.

I'm looking forward to hearing how the sails work out.

Nils T · May 25, 2015

I know the Doyle loft in St Pete makes the sails because I visited the loft and I talked to them about making sails. I also saw the sails that they were making. Not all sails are made out of the country.

piedpiperIII · May 25, 2015

thank you for this Luke, I may just go this route not sure when however but this is a great deal.

Leeward Rail · May 25, 2015

Nils T said:
Not all sails are made out of the country.

Agreed.
It's just that SOME lofts like to try hide the fact they may design them, but they are built offshore. (Edit: Likely done due to people's prejudices as to where the production loft is located)

Then you have the few places that simply sell sails and try imply they actually design them.

It's confusing as heck to weed through the marketing jargon, EDIT: nevermind who designs them and where they are assembled.

ShotgunSlim · May 26, 2015

So what about Ullman Sails? A few years back, Catalina Direct was offering an early order 15% discount on sails and I took advantage of their offer, paying half in the fall and the other half in late winter for a new main and 150 Genoa. I don't recall barking up any trees to find out where they were made, I've been very pleased with both products. They got the C22 insignia right, sail numbers right and the first time I hoisted that 150 and felt it pull, I remember thinking out loud: "Holy Crap!! It's like she's turbo charged!!"

Leeward Rail · May 26, 2015

Shotgunslim: that's my point. People get all worked up about which country products are made in.
Ullman... Made in china ....but you liked them and they were well made. End of story. It's not country of manufacture that matters, it simply how good the company made them

DrJudyB · May 26, 2015

How to Select a Sailmaker

Leeward Rail said:
<<snipped>>
My point was, that China can make good products. They made my macbook pro for example.
Chinese factories, like any other business, make products to a target price.
You want cheap ? They do cheap. You want quality ? They do quality.
.

I agree whole heartedly with what Leeward Rail wrote about Chinese Sail Factory: You want cheap? They do cheap. You want quality? They do quality”

And I would go one rhetorical step further: You want cheap AND you want quality?

….. Unfortunately, nobody sells quality sails for cheap, in my professional opinion . In my opinion, you get what you pay for. If it’s too cheap to be real, it’s not the real thing.

Turning back to Leeward Rails main point about buying a sail from a Big Production Loft in the Far East– you can get a CRAPPY SAIL or an AWESOME SAIL. All the major production lofts will build to any price point. They will build for the “best quality” brands and for the “worst quality” brands.

So how does the average boat owner tell the difference between best quality and worst quality when they get a new sail? The answer to the question is "They can't"

Unfortunately, very few boat owners are experienced enough to see the difference between a quality sail and a cheap sail. They all look the same to an untrained eye when they’re new.

So I’m going write a couple of posts to offer you some advice on how to choose a sailmaker. It’s going to take considerable time for me to write it. Stay tuned for Part 1 in a later post.

Judy B

P.S. Full Disclosure: I'm a sail maker. I own and operate Hyde Sails Direct.com. Hyde Sails is one of the 6 "big production lofts" in the world. Our production loft is located in Cebu Philippines.

P.P.S. Many of you will remember me from the old days when I was the webmaster of TrailerSailor Forum. I left, and Phil Herring, owner of SailBoatOwners.com, took over. He kept the TrailerSailor Forum alive and breathed new life into it. Phil is a genuine nice guy and I'd like to remind you that revenue from the online Chandlery here on SBO is what supports this forum. So please visit the SBO Sail loft at http://shop.sailboatowners.com/cu/detail-sails.php

Stu Jackson · May 26, 2015

New sails for ANYONE

There are many issues related to buying sails.

The simplest are these:

Buy from a mail order loft with lowest cost and pray you get what you think you ordered.

Buy from a local loft for perhaps a tad more $ and have the lofter available to go to your boat and make the necessary adjustments.

Where the fabric comes from is up to YOUR research.

What's so hard?