A lesson on winches

[brockangelo]

As with most of my posts, I humbly present the mistakes that I have made so that others don't have to suffer the same consequences. Today's lesson: if you don't have a working winch, you don't have a working trailer.

The backstory:

We've always struggled with our trailer, between lining up the keel into the tiny v-notch, and getting it far enough up the trailer to pull it out of the water, that the norm for us what to always pull the boat out with it about a foot or two back on the trailer. We never could quite get it all the way up into the cradle where the bow was nestled into the notch at the front of the trailer. And yet, we trailered it home just fine from the prior owner without any issues. After launching it and pulling it out of the water a few times, we accepted that having it a foot or two away from "properly nosed into the notch at the front of the trailer" was just fine.

So when we came back from a trip last summer and put it into the slip, it didn't seem like a big deal to us to realize that the winch handle had fallen off on our drive back from Lake Erie. We just unclipped the boat and launched it and drove it to the slip. When it came time to pull it out in October, I had forgotten about the winch handle being missing, but decided we could get it onto the trailer just fine if I gassed it pretty good.

This time, it didn't quite make it up to one or two feet from the front of the trailer, and without a winch, I figured that it would just have to do. As it turns out, it was a lot further back on the trailer than I realized standing at the boat ramp, but without a winch handle, what else could I do? I tried gassing it up further, but figured that it wasn't that big of a deal.

We drove it over to the marina and were dropping it off so that they could power wash it, and then they were going to drive it to dry storage for us. When it came time to remove the trailer from the hitch ball, the trailer shot up like a canon straight in the air.

• Fortunately, we were not parked on the ramp, otherwise the boat and trailer would have gone rolling into the water.
• Fortunately, I wasn't leaning over the trailer when I released the hitch, or I would have been launched into the air as well.
• Fortunately, when the boat tipped back (with the mast up) it rested on the frame of the trailer, and none of the fiberglass made contact with the ground.
• Fortunately, the motor AND the tiller had already been taken off.
• Fortunately, the marina had a massive floor jack that they wheeled out so we could lift the back end of the boat up.
• Fortunately, other people were around that helped to push down on the tongue of the trailer so we could get it attached back to the hitch to drive it back to the boat ramp.
• Fortunately, the marina also had another trailer nearby with a winch handle we could borrow so that we could properly load the boat onto the trailer this time.

This is a MASSIVE list of "fortunatelys" that you DON'T want to have to hope for, so I'll reiterate the lesson I wanted to share with everyone: if you don't have a working winch, you don't have a working trailer. And, you absolutely need to get these boats up on the trailer before you take them out of the water.

 

[AaronD]

Glad to hear you and Ocean Jasper boat are both OK! Thanks for the reminder!

 

[Joe]

Did you try using the mainsheet tackle in place of the missing winch?

 

[brockangelo]

Did you try using the mainsheet tackle in place of the missing winch?

I didn't, but that's a good idea to keep in mind if it happens in the future!

 

[pcharn01]

And that was with a bunk trailer… with a roller trailer, that would be a land yacht.

 

[pclarksurf]

holy smokes-- totally glad it worked out in the end and humans and boat were ok, thanks for sharing. Oddball question-- is the reason you are not getting the boat snug to the v-stop upon return to the ramp related to the depth of the trailer? i.e.: trailer extension is missing or too short to drop the bunks completely underwater so you can float her back, grab the v stop and the winch-- then pull her out on her bunks.

Couldn't agree more about the working winch, but wondering if you don't have another component in the mix to sort out? I struggled early with the right arrangement for me, but ultimately found the sweet spot between trailer depth (via extension) new strap winch that wouldn't slip on the haul out, and inexpensive trailer guides to ensure I was and stayed lined up on the pull out.

 

[Joe]

I didn't, but that's a good idea to keep in mind if it happens in the future!

Brock, your posts have always been informative and well presented. I completely understood your bewilderment as your story unfolded. We learn through our experiences, the main lesson being to anticipate and improvise. There's lots of hardware on a sailboat that can pull double duty as an effective tool. Besides the previously mentioned mainsheet tackle, a sheet winch could be rigged for the trailer winch's job. I'm sure others will have good solutions that might have worked for them in the past. Oh, another way to move a heavy load would be to rig a kind of "trucker's hitch" with a series of loops in a stout line, It keeps heavy cargo on the flatbed trailer so it'll more than likely move your 22 footer up a few feet on the skids.

Anyway, I'll bet there are many interesting problems our group members have improvised solutions for that they might share here. I think that would interest a lot of us. So, thanks Brock, for sharing your adventure and sparking our imagination.

 

[pclarksurf]

and continuing to noodle out loud -- looking at the placement of your guide posts: compared it to mine relative to the wheel well and one challenge you might be having is that the beam of the C22 is centered on the wheel well. Meaning your guides might be allowing a lot of side to side movement of the boat over the sunken trailer, making it a bit more challenging to line up the keel and stick the landing so to speak. Might be a thought to help the overall alignment if that is a contributing factor in not having the boat full against the bow stop on pull out.

 

[brockangelo]

holy smokes-- totally glad it worked out in the end and humans and boat were ok, thanks for sharing. Oddball question-- is the reason you are not getting the boat snug to the v-stop upon return to the ramp related to the depth of the trailer? i.e.: trailer extension is missing or too short to drop the bunks completely underwater so you can float her back, grab the v stop and the winch-- then pull her out on her bunks.

So I do have a trailer tongue extension, but it is SO rusty that I almost never want to use it unless I have to. I'm not a big guy, and sliding it out and getting it lined up with the holes to secure it in place is a pretty big effort for me. This is partly why I'm interested in overhauling or replacing my trailer. I keep having problems like this. I'm quite confident that when I've used the tongue extension, I was able to get it all the way on the trailer. Maybe I could start by addressing the tongue extension. I'm not sure if I should grind down the rust, or add a coat of paint, grease it, or a mix of all of those. I can tell you it is near impossible to pull out the extension and even harder to push it back in. It typically requires using the truck to pull it in and out, and then it is a guessing game of trying to line up the holes. And on top of that, the only place where I can actually do that is on the ramp, since we have a horseshoe shaped road right before pulling up to the ramp, so I'd never be able to extend the tongue away from the ramp and be able to turn on a dime and get it to the ramp.

 

[pclarksurf]

Totally get it-- had the exact same challenge when I got my original from the PO. I had to decide: spend about 900 on existing trailer refurb or go all in on custom new. I opted to fix and my answer to the extension mock up is shown below. For that 900 ish the local trailer shop did this part for me, I upgraded the axle, bunks, supports, keel stop, wheel/hubs, springs.

I had them weld the stock extension shut (we couldn't unstick it anyway) and i swap back and forth in the parking lot to the extension (adjustable from 6-10 feet) and back to the main for the tow home.

 

[Rick Webb]

Totally get it-- had the exact same challenge when I got my original from the PO. I had to decide: spend about 900 on existing trailer refurb or go all in on custom new. I opted to fix and my answer to the extension mock up is shown below. For that 900 ish the local trailer shop did this part for me, I upgraded the axle, bunks, supports, keel stop, wheel/hubs, springs.

I had them weld the stock extension shut (we couldn't unstick it anyway) and i swap back and forth in the parking lot to the extension (adjustable from 6-10 feet) and back to the main for the tow home.

View attachment 213305

Quick observation, if you ran your safety chain around the back of the jack post it would give it a much better chance of staying attached to the trailer rather than relying on the one bolt to take the shock and load of the trailer if it lost the attachment to the tow vehicle

 

[brockangelo]

@pclarksurf I've never seen a trailer extension mounted like that, but that is a great solution honestly.

 

[danooxnard]

Hi Brock,
I can tell you that cleaning up the old trailer extendable tongue is worth the effort! I did mine 4 years ago and I regrease it once a year to keep it moving easy. I removed the tongue and used a wire wheel on an industrial size grinder to remove all the rust on the tongue. I then used Ospho to treat the metal. I painted it with Rusty metal primer and finished with Gloss Gray paint. As for the tube, I used a cut down 2x4 to fit inside with 80 grit sandpaper stapled to it to remove as much rust as I could inside. I treated inside using Ospho and a throw away paint brush screwed onto the 2x4. After all was dry I reassembled with lots of grease on the bottom of the tongue extension. I only put it on the bottom since that is what makes contact and has drag. It also keeps me from getting grease all over my jeans when I step over the tongue! You will be amazed at what little effort it takes to move the tongue once this is done . It took me about 6 hours to do all this and a few bucks for materials. Far cheaper than a new trailer..
I also have my Pvc trailer guides right behind the rear fender, this way they are not under water when launching.


Using the extendable tongue does allow you to float the boat onto the trailer a little farther forward, making it possible to winch it on the rest of the way. I do have to disconnect from the tow vehicle to extend the tongue, it is not possible to do it while connected. Maybe you can try making it around the u-turn on the launch ramp with it extended to see if you can make it extended. My tongue has two sets of holes for extension length, I always use the first set of holes which extends the tongue 4’ 4”. This keeps truck and tires out of salt water when I launch and does not make the trailer too much longer to turn.

I would do this now before it is too rusted to remove.

My trailer use is 100% salt water and launched twice a month when the weather is good with no further problems with rust!

Best of luck and glad you survived! Dano

 

[brockangelo]

Wow thanks so much for the full write up! I’ll plan to do that this spring!

 

[brockangelo]

What kind of grease would you recommend?

 

[danooxnard]

Anything cheap. Nothing special. I used wheel bearing grease that was on sale.

 

[pclarksurf]

Quick observation, if you ran your safety chain around the back of the jack post it would give it a much better chance of staying attached to the trailer rather than relying on the one bolt to take the shock and load of the trailer if it lost the attachment to the tow vehicle

Yep- old picture, long since removed and while they were adding the extension-- we welded proper loops for the safety chain.

 

[pclarksurf]

@pclarksurf I've never seen a trailer extension mounted like that, but that is a great solution honestly.

Frankentrailer does make for some interesting boat ramp conversation

 

[Project_Mayhem]

• Green Grease did very well in Practical Sailor tests and is available at most auto parts stores
• Tongue extensions are amazing. Before installing one my tires were spinning like crazy and I had to get towed up the ramp. Afterwards it went absolutely perfect. Not an inch of tire slip
• You're probably not going to be able to refinish the inside of the trailer tube beyond a foot or two
• Once you have your extension lined up, take some spray paint or sharpie and mark the location on the inner tube. It makes lining it up much easier in the future
• I had my trailer tongue shoot up in the air as well. We tried putting close to 400 lbs of people and weight on the tongue and it wouldn't budge. Luckily I hadnt released the safety chains so that saved the rudder. We eventually got the tongue down by using a spare tire jack on the back of the trailer. After this incident I added a dual speed winch, extension and moved the boat forward on the trailer. It was much easier to manage at the ramp and it towed much better
  

 

[brockangelo]

• Green Grease
• Once you have your extension lined up, take some spray paint or sharpie and mark the location on the inner tube. It makes lining it up much easier in the future

Thanks for the recommendation, and brilliant idea about the sharpie!