A few questions from a Cherubini 30 Newbie

Nov 30, 2015
1,343
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
Wow, I had no idea there might be a forum specific to Hunter owners. Too cool, so I signed up. The 1978 model I purchased recently is absolutely perfect. I've never seen such a clean boat of this vintage. The sails are in great shape, YanMar diesel is cleaner than you could imagine. Clearly a well cared for vessel. I hope to extend that care.

My major question is about headsail furlers. I want to replace the standard rigging with a roller. Any suggestions would be greatly welcomed, tried and trued system owners would be appreciated. I have all winter to think about this. The boat is currently demasted and sitting in a marina parking lot, waiting for stepping back into service in May 2016.

Thanks in advance for any advice...Wayne ⛵
 
May 27, 2004
2,054
Hunter 30_74-83 Ponce Inlet FL
Wayne, Welcome to the SBO Cherubini forum. I've owned my 1979 H 30 C since new so ask away. There are several active 30C owners on the forum who have done some amazing work on their (Our) fine old classic cruisers.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,563
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I'm no expert on roller furlers.... I've owned boats with both a traditional hank on system and two with roller furled head sails. The roller furled is nice when it is time to put the boat away. The hanked on sails seem to perform better (IMHO).

Until you get it sorted out, try a down haul system for your hanked on headsail. It will make handling a lot easier. You can install one for under $10.
 
Nov 30, 2015
1,343
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
Thank you folks for the feedback on the furling. Perhaps it's the lazy sailor in me or maybe the ability to infinitely reef the jib if needed. I just don't really care to have the headsail draped over the foredeck where it becomes a nuisance and tripping hazard. It seems that a hanked on system can get in the way of the pulpit and disturb an anchoring process. Besides I really dislike footprints on my sails. I think the attached image explains my concerns.

Sir rgranger can you point me in the direction of a headsail down haul system that you are proposing? I have the whole winter to think about what's desirable on this boat?

Thank you all again...Wayne

image.jpeg
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,563
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Well the down haul is nice but not as clean as a roller furler. My two boats I have now both are roller furled.

In a down haul system, you put a block (pulley) at on the chainplate where the tack of the jib is attached. You run a small line up the sail and attach it to the last hank near the head plate. The line is weaved in between each hank. Run the other end of the line through fair leads back to the cockpit. When you want to dowse your headsail, you release the halyard and pull on the down haul. the sail collapses in a nice flaked manner and if you leave one of your jib sheets taunt, the sail will lay nice and quite against that gunwale. With the down haul and sheet taught, it will sit on the deck and not flap around. You can then deal with it later once the weather has calmed down. If you also have a solent sail system, you can use this technique to quickly dowse a large sail and just as quickly raise a storm jib without leaving the cockpit. I drew a crude picture of a down haul ... hope this gives you something to think on and good luck with your outfitting. And if you do a search for a solent sail system, you will get some good ideas there too.

I don't think there is a wrong answer here. What ever you decide, there will be trade-offs. Roller furled headsails are nice. You can put them away quickly, you can deploy them just as fast. You mentioned the continual reefing of a roller furled headsail but I have found that in practice, you can only roll up about 1/3 of the sail before it losses its shape to the point of not really drawing well. In heavy seas, I have found that if I can keep my helm balanced and my heel low and make good headway, the ride is very pleasant and you don't get so much pitching. So being able to reduce the sails while keeping good sail shape is important.

With that said, I have roller furled headsails on my current boats.... I'm thinking of adding solent sail system for a storm jib and when I need to, I can roll up my genoa and deploy the solent sail.
 

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Jun 5, 2010
1,123
Hunter 25 Burlington NJ
I like the Pardey downhaul idea (what rgranger describes) best of all. It's easy to rig and can (should) be led, like a furling line, aft to the cockpit. Add netting to the pulpit and back to the first stanchion and it's far cheaper than a furler. You can pull the sail right down onto the deck because, having hanks, it will flake itself into a nice tight accordion and stay put, and you're still in the cockpit. You can't do that with a headstay foil or furler, ever. Lead your anchor rode to a cleat farther aft and it's not in the way.

I have one very firm recommendation about choosing a furler, and that is that it must include an easy means of removing the sail, and hoisting an alternative sail, under way, at sea, meaning in nasty conditions. Barring that, any furler is essentially a one-shot deal, suitable only for protected waters (within cell-phone coverage of TowBoatUS). The cheap little plastic-extrusion ones, having their own halyards (which are too small; they rely in boltrope friction to augment their anemic strength) are suitable only for daysailers under about 22 ft. My preference for your boat would be the Schaefer 1100-series. In my view the SS Harken drums look cheap; they are heavy and are the very devil to disassemble and work on (too many little screws getting lost).

Nearly no furlers out there are designed to be used as a reefer, no matter what anyone says. With a partially-furled headsail, you have no control over leech and foot tension, the shape of the sail is ineffective, and because it rolls upwards and not forwards, you blow your center of effort, affecting the helm, and probably increase heel, due to the sail being too high. It's either in or out. And of course 'reefing' it looks desirable only in nasty conditions, in which these matters are more important and these problems are made worse.

More caveats (by no means meant to dissuade you; I am 'Doctor Doom' around here so I get that rep):

As a matter of routine, cycle the sail up and down the furler to exercise the halyard. The worst thing is to have the halyard remain inert, bent over a sheave and through a fairlead at the top of the mast, exposed to the sun at its most vulnerable point, and to never look at it. Furlers are NOT 'no-maintenance'; they're not even 'low-maintenance'. Pay attention to it more than once a season. At sea, inspect it like weekly.

If you have two headsail halyards (which I hope you do), alternate them on and off furler duty. This will save the line and help prevent 'sudden' failures.

Don't deploy the roller-furling genoa as the only sail on the boat except in very mild conditions. This setup puts the whole boat out of trim and makes it hard to steer-- the worse the conditions, the worse the effect. A good furler will allow you to bring in the genoa and to hoist a smaller jib, even a storm sail.

This means not to avoid using the main; especially not avoiding slab-reefing the main. People seem to default to the furling jib because they think it's easy, typically the same people who fear slab-reefing, probably because they don't know how to do it well or the boat's not set up well for it. I once saw three guys on a 33-footer trying to make the Chesapeake Bay Bridge under (apparently full) genoa alone. It was blowing 25-30 kts out of the west and they could not head up close enough to make it. Finally they threw a tack and went off north, towards Ocean City, Maryland, probably, in order to retry it on a better line. I was yelling, 'Pull up the main!' but I doubt they heard me or would have considered it. Ignorance is not bliss.

Many people experience drastic headstay sag when a furler is installed. You can tell these people by how they complain that Cherubini Hunters 'won't point up'. First, the furler extrusion assembly has to be the correct length for the headstay-- not even 3/8" too short. This is a very common error-- people adjusting their lives just to have the magic furler on the boat. All Cherubini-designed boats want mast rake. This helps pointing ability.

Also, the furler extrusions add great weight to the stay, requiring increased backstay and lower-shroud tension to compensate. This is not merely a matter of taking up on the other shrouds, especially on a 40-year-old boat. The best thing is to install a backstay adjuster. But you have a Hunter 30; that means you need to examine the compression-post structure, especially the awful metal thing under the sole, and the state of the (cored) deck to see if you can stand a little more load in these parts. Adding a furler (and especially a backstay adjuster to keep it in tune) could mean more harm than good. You could punch a hole in the deck and collapse the cabin sole. So, before adding the furler, first pull the mast and do a proper inspection. (Then call me. Or see my blog where I wrote about it. :dancing:)

By now I sound like I agree with those who suggest you sail the boat around for a season or two to get to know it the way it is now. And I do. Adding gadgets is not the first thing you should do, having bought a boat that's new to you. The boat will talk to you, teach you about it, show you what it likes. Listen to it-- this is only wise.

And there are many very nice bag-the-sail-on-the-stay bags available, even on this site.

My dad (the designer) lay dying in the hospital and my little brother said, 'Dad, you never gave me any advice.'
Dad said, 'Save your money.'
That's what I'm sharing with you. ;)
 
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Jan 24, 2009
450
1981 Cherubini Hunter 27 Shipwright Harbor Marina, MD
I'm a cruiser, not a racer and love the convenience of my roller furler. It's a CDI Flexible Furler FF6, with the ball bearing upgrade, I got it, a new headstay, and a new genoa all at the same time from Bacon Sails in Annapolis. I had rigged a downhaul for the old jib and was able to re-use the line and blocks, etc. for the furling line. Haven't had any problems with it in 3 years.
 
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Nov 30, 2015
1,343
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
Amazing...I would never have expected such detailed response from a forum such as this. I can't thank you all enough for the feedback, especially from Mr. Granger and Doc Doom . Too funny, but exceptionally respected by me. I should perhaps describe my anticipated utilization of this classic sailboat. Weekend recreation with family and friends, maybe an overnighter with the grandkids. Typically I will have no experienced crew members on board and expect to manage the rigging single-handed. My biggest aspirations, being in upstate NY on Cayuga Lake, is to find several quiet harbors for a weekender and certainly water-born access to numerous wineries. I certainly would be within cell phone (and VHF) shouting distance if a sailing faux pas occurs.

I must admit that some of the acronyms and references provided to specific systems are a bit overwhelming, but I'm having too much fun researching your suggestions. I guess I should get a subscription to Good Old Boat (GOB).

Ok, so the prevalent decision I'm making, at least for now, is to play with this boat the way it's currently rigged. We'll let the Boat (Blow Me Away will be its new name) speak to me and see what she has to say. The PO is actually related to me as an in-law and has offered to do a shake-down in May. Yes, I've read about changing a boat's name, but I am the furthest from superstition that one can be. If something goes wrong it's all on me, not the boat.

I'm gonna rig the down haul and set up netting on the pulpit/rail. The entire boat package came with a 110 worker, 150 genny, and storm jib. I wanna be able to use these as necessary if the weather in NY ever catches me off guard (although not likely).

My wife and I have crewed much larger monohulls in the BVI for the last four years, and I was simply trying to emulate that standard Caribbean sloop rigging to my GOB. Last boat in 2015 shown below.

Thanks again...Wayne

image.jpeg
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,563
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
You have a very beautiful boat.

The boat in my avitar is a Balboa. I just sold it this past weekend (the new owner has not picked it up yet) and I am now the proud owner of this beauty ... (see pics below)

I think you will be surprised at how easy a down haul system is to rig and use. And it is WAY less expensive and complicated than a roller furled system. I'm keeping the roller furler on my Hunter because it works well but I was seriously considering selling the roller furler on my Balboa. It used to jam a lot. I had a very nice set of jibs for the balboa and wanted to be able to change them out so I was going back to a down haul system. You will figure it out once the boat tells you what it wants ... I like your planned use. Sounds like a great way to spend a day or two.

Fair winds,
r
 

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