A discussion over cocktails

sailaway78 · Oct 21, 2013

My .02

Speaking from my experience as a 75yo retiree, who has been sailing around the gulf for the past ten years. First in a 28 and then a 37. Mostly single handing. With the 28, which was a very good boat, I could load up enough food and stuff, to stay out a week, ten days if I really skrimped. On the 37, I can stay out three weeks fairly comfortably, and a month if I really skrimp. Here is what I would do in your position.
I would forget about a new boat. I would forget about a 31. You budget will allow you to find a really nice, 34 and more than likely a very nice, late model 36. Most of the late model production boats in this size range have roller furling mains, which makes single handing pretty much a snap. Reasons. First, a new boat is going to take a lot of time, and quite a bit of money to get it like you want it. New boats come with the minimum of accessories. And most will need plenty of shake down. Second is: Storage, storage, storage. You cannot get enough food, water, fuel, clothes, and other necessities on a 30. Not for any extended cruising. And if you do, you will have it so loaded down it will sail like a pig. If you spend some time searching, I would bet you can find a nice 36, loaded with current electronics, a fridge, gen set and AC, within your price range. I can tell you that in a 30 or 31, you will have the ability to stay out on your own for not much more than a week. And forget about such things as showers. Or else you will be out of water. Check out the classifieds on this site, yacht trader and others. Find yourself a nice, well cared for 36, with needed accessories, including radar, that is ready to sail.

Scotty C-M · Oct 21, 2013

:dance::dance::dance:Nice +1

Apex · Oct 22, 2013

nice budget.... and sound advice from easy. A well sorted late model would contain much of what you want in styling, and all the necessary gear. what will you miss in a few year old boat that is in the newer boats?

Bob 04 H260 · Oct 22, 2013

I agree with the above.

A minimum of 36 ft, self-furling main, and AC.

Plus consider adding eperb, WIFI booster, feathering prop, radar, AIS, satellite weather, good dinghy on davits, full cockpit enclosure, generator, solar panels, substantial ground tackle, if these are not already on the boat.

With your budget there are lots of newer boats in this size that were seldom used and are well equipped with a lot of the above. You will have money left over to add any of the "nice to have" items later - an asymmetrical spinnaker, or an ice maker for your cocktails

.

A boat you like to look at, that sails well, with lots of storage, good sized tanks, large top loading fridge and separate freezer, good sized anchor locker with substantial bow roller and windlass would be part of my criteria.

Be sure the engine is easy to work on, this is a big one and something that can not be added on later !

have fun, enjoy the experience, Bob

jsalley · Oct 22, 2013

Agree with all of the above. I sail a Catalina 309; the 315 is identical with a few essentially cosmetic changes. Storage and tankage (or lack thereof) would be your biggest problem with extended cruising. It's a great boat for singlehanding, is easy to maintain, and is rugged enough for the sailing you plan to do, but the limited water tank capacity and lack of storage would limit your range to a week or less at a stretch. The refrigerator is also small for extended cruises. With your budget, you might look at the C350 MkII, which was only produced for 2 years but has some good improvements compared to the original 350.

CCHer · Oct 22, 2013

Pilgrim, I'm in your age group

I bought new last year because I wanted new. That said I can't disagree with the consensus here on a late model larger boat than a C315 with your budget. I bought a 4 year old Catalina 310 several years ago thinking it would be my last boat-she was like new. After 3 years I found it cramped-it seemed that we had to squeeze into places-and never got to like her sailing qualities though that's another story. I bought a new B37 and tripled the water, almost doubled the fuel and lots more storage plus she's a great sailing boat. There's a big financial hit in buying new then finding over time its not the right boat. Not sure of your sailing experience and maybe you know exactly what fits you, but consider for cruising that bigger is generally better.

wufibugs · Oct 22, 2013

Have to agree with all of the above. I sail a 31'. Sure, you could start eliminating berths and substituting tanks and storage, but as others have said, this will be an expense and will sacrifice the sailing and handling qualities of the boat.

kenkindy1 · Nov 8, 2013

I'd go with something 35-37 any of the major production brands. Furling Head sail, Lazy Jacks and stack pack for the main.....single helm. I think the dual wheels look ridiculous. An anchor windlass would be great, no matter your age! , Good Bimini set up. Add Air Conditioning/heat, solar and good tankage and I'm all set.

Jackdaw · Nov 8, 2013

Pogo 30. Very fast, safe boat designed for single handing. Lifting keel makes any anchorage possible. Will use up ALL of your $200K but worth it. This was a refreshing question. So many people are caught in what sailboats were like 30 years ago, they have NO idea what modern boats are capable of. Live the dream.

http://vimeo.com/75914453

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Nov 8, 2013

Don't know how I missed this thread earlier.

My wife and I own a Catalina 310. Personally, I like the layout much better than the 315. The larger master birth and a few other things make it more desirable to us. We more or less live on the boat fulltime and are in the process of preparing her to sail the same area you are looking at. We leave in 2015, most likely early October.

With the addition of some fishing/foraging we feel we can go 1 month on the food we can carry and we also have an emergency set up for an additional month (freeze dried food stuff). Water becomes the issue. We carry 55 gallons plus we plan to add two 5-gallon jerry jugs before we leave. We can go 5 days without being restrictive and 8-10 days if we are conservative with water use. This is usually supplemented with about 10 gallons of bottled water for drinking.

Based on our plans it should be obvious that I think your plan could be accomplished on a 31 foot boat. However, if I had your budget I would go for a Catalina 350 hands down. The MK II is preferred but that wouldn't be a deal killer. With the C350 you take the best parts of the C310 and expand on it. You get an actual shower stall. A built in freezer in addition to a good size top and front load fridge. Cabin doors that separate the two births from the living space. Some additional storage. And double anchor rollers. The liveability increases quite a bit over the 310 but the cost doubles.

Personally, I would definitely go with used over new. It's just a value thing. You can generally get more for your money. When I was considering if we should increase I found a mid-2000s C350 with a full cockpit enclosure, update electronics, wifi extender system, davits and a bunch of other cruising goodies for $125K. I am sure you could find something similar if you searched around for a little bit.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse

rufus1138 · Nov 8, 2013

im going to be the first one to break parameters, so in that vein i will break a few.

im 25, however i live aboard full time, making the change was a solution born of desperation, yet it has turned out to be the best decision i ever made. in light of how this happened for me (low/no budget, no experience, good friends and TONS of research) i have to say there is one very very good answer that hasnt been offered yet but it is so glaring its worth breaking your age parameter for the boat. cherubini hunter, the 33, 36, or 37 cutter can all be had for a paltry amount of your budget, and with a good shipwright you trust can be outfitted to be amazing cruising and liveaboard vessels, thats exactly what hunter asked john cherubini to do and he delivered it in spades, my 33 has a wonderful head with shower, located in the aft of the cabin so its easy and pleasant to use underway, the cabin is laid out so that its very secure in a seaway but still offers enough room to live without feeling cramped, storage abounds down stairs and the tankage is sufficient and can be expanded, also the main water tank is in the bow to help with wave breaking instead of amidships to help with racing. so there we go, advice from a school of hard knocks 25 yr old full time liveaboard that started on a 27 and moved to a 33, john cherubini is your answer.

Bosman · Nov 8, 2013

If it was I in your shoes, with the budget mentioned and size constrained to (revised) 38ft, my first choice would have been (not new, but pretty much new) the Sun Odyssey 379. You can find less than 2 years old boat for quite under $200,000 price tag, with some negotiating the price would likely be to drop. I simply love this boat, the looks and design, in my eyes, is stunning.

This one here for $184,000 asking price, for example: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2012/Jeanneau-Sun-Odyssey-379-2648544/Annapolis/MD/United-States

On the other hand, with the length of the boat in the original 30-33ft, I would order new Tango 33. This would be my second choice.

Tom J · Nov 8, 2013

I agree with Jesse. We love our Catalina 310. We find it cozy and easy to handle. We now live aboard 5 months of the year, and have lived aboard for up to 10 months. When we bought her, we told the broker we wanted to buy a used boat, since our budget wouldn't support the purchase of a new C310. He showed us a 2 year old C310 that turned out to have been sailed once, and had 19 hours on the engine! The broker said he would have bought it if he had known the history of the boat. So we lucked out and got a new boat at a used boat price.
Good luck on your search for the right boat. Maybe you'll be as lucky as we were!

Bill Roosa · Nov 8, 2013

How large is your crew? given 60+ I'm assuming just you and the first mate. 36' is about the smallest that has the tankage/storage/space you will be needing. I would note that a 40' for 2 folks is AWESOME. don't forget that you will be spending most of your time at anchor so the extra room can be a real relationship maintainer.

Skippmaiden · Nov 28, 2013

I'm pretty much in your situation. You seem to be comfortable with spending $200+ for a new boat but want certain comforts commensurate with your age. I'm 66 and just bought a new Beneteau 41 that I feel is perfect for me. True, I could have gotten a better (read, cheaper) deal on a used boat but given my age, and that of the Admiral, this was the best choice for me. The extra few feet in length, coupled with the huge cockpit, made all the difference, given our lifestyle. The deciding factor was the companionway stairs at 45 degrees rather than 60 degrees of most other boats. Just like wailing up and down stairs at home rather than climbing down a ladder like most sailboats. Plus, the "butlers pantry" in lieu of a third -not needed -berth made all the sense to us. True, the price was almost $300k but it was exactly what we wanted and needed and we don't ever plan on selling or trading. My advice would be to go with what you really want, rather than what someone recommends given different priorities.

Compromise · Nov 29, 2013

I'm pretty much in the same situation. Like Skippmaiden, I opted fit the Benny 41. Lots if room. More boat for the money than other production boats. And I hate to admit it, it's an old peoples boat. Companionway stairs at 45 degree angle and lots of electronics. Even the chart plotter is 12 inch so it's easier to read. Kind of fits me. My kids (youngest 33) love it and enjoy dropping by for whatever reason. I realize this is out of the set parameters but Skippmaiden started it. By the way the B45 is also nice and both single hand easily. Anything larger and maintenance becomes an issue.

RichH · Nov 29, 2013

As others have offered, stowage space is important for the long distance cruiser.

The best advice I can offer is to buy the longest waterline length boat that you can comfortably afford ... with long waterline length comes speed (safety), stowage volume.

If youre planning to go out to the BVI and then 'down' ... Id suggest a boat that can 'point' and can hold most of its stores in its amidships instead of the ends. In this area because of the constant easterly usually strong trade winds and west setting currents .... is known as the area of the Caribbean 'two step' - always beating going east: two steps to the side and one step forward, a 'slog'.

In such conditions you need to keep the ends of the boat 'light' to prevent 'hobby-horsing' of a constantly plunging and submerging bow. A flat bottomed production boat, constantly 'slamming down' and its bow disappearing into oncoming waves, wont be the best choice for this area, .... unless youre going westerly. This particular area favors, as you call them, 'dinosaurs' - deep 'vee shaped' draft with lots of reserve buoyancy in the bow.

rufus1138 · Nov 29, 2013

RichH said:
This particular area favors, as you call them, 'dinosaurs' - deep 'vee shaped' draft with lots of reserve buoyancy in the bow.

aka not a benetau.