a cautionary note on Seaward water heaters

Oct 2, 2008
3,810
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Mam o man I hate these pop quizzes in the summer time. The only thing I got right was that there was a black and white wire. I didn't even get the hot water heater right because it looked square not round. Bob do you suppose next you have a problem it's easy enough for me to figure out?

My wife laughed when she heard me complaining that you guys were making me look stupid. She said I didn't need anyone's help with that. Hmmmmm!

All U Get
 
Jun 9, 2004
615
Catalina 385 Marquette. Mi
As I look at these photographs again, not focusing on the wires but the whole environment, I see evidence of salt water corrosion all over the place. The edges of the terminal box are rusted, the input/output water pipe connectors, corroded. The whole inside of the terminal box was also corroded. Also, the last photograph: If you look at the cardboard, the primary source of heat was centered close to the element (the cardboard burn has a circular pattern)... The black wire. My conclusion: The black STRANDED wire (bad on boats!!) corroded to the point where it could no longer support the current passing through it (highER resistance, not HIGH resistance), which turned it into an element itself. Individual strands burned, and as each strand burned it further weakened the entire wire, causing a chain reaction of failed strands. It caught fire internally, but was quickly snuffed out because the catastrophic failure of the wire ONLY lasted for a couple of seconds. None of this would have tripped the breaker because the current would have never exceeded 15AMPs. You can easily fry any small wire with 15AMPs. Symptoms: The heater itself (prior) MUST have had lousy heating as the resistance of the black wire slowly increased over the years. As it slowly corroded, the wire would have got hotter and hotter, slowly diminishing the effectiveness of the heater over time. Cause: The manufacturer used STRANDED wire in a marine environment, and not SOLID core wire, coupled with a corrosive environment. Period!!! This *IS* a manufacturer defect!!! Yes, you *DO* deserve a free replacement. I recently replaced my water heater (Atwood), and noticed the wires internally were STIFF, SOLID core wires (good).

Not correct at all.
 
Sep 15, 2013
708
Catalina 270 Baltimore
I vote for resistance caused by corrosion. It happens a lot in a lot of places. It happens in hot tubs and pool pumps on land. A normal load across a high resistance connection can cause a big thermal problem. The corrosion does not even have to be visible for it to have an effect. I always turn off my water heater when I am not on the boat. I also did it with my beach house when it was not occupied. It is simply good practice and something one should remember to do.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,986
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
a cautionary note on ANY BOAT water heaters

Electrical theory 101 - Listen to Maine Sail!

Water heaters 101 - Turn them off after the 6 gallons of water gets heated. This takes all of 15-25 minutes. This is NOT a home heater, this is a small inexpensive heater on a boat. For years we have been suggesting that there is no reason to leave them on all the time. This is a systems management issue. Don't leave them on when you leave the boat. Don't leave them on overnight - what, you can't wait 15 minutes when you get up in the morning? C'mon. Add a thermostatic mixing valve, like Maine Sail has been suggesting for years and years.

Water heaters 101.1 - The shelf life of these puppies, based on my 17 years of experience with our C34 and 30 years of the C34 Association, is 12-16 years. My PO replaced the one when we bought our then 12 year old boat in 1998. I replaced it again a year or two ago. These things do not last forever.

Check the wiring behind the cover plate on your heater. It's not a sealed "box" it's just a cover plate.

It ain't Seaward's fault. Bob, I'm sorry it happened to you. Thanks for posting, glad you made more skippers aware of the issues.
 
Mar 11, 2015
357
Hunter 33.5 Tacoma, WA
If you look at the photo I just uploaded, the circle looks like it was the source of initial failure.

The terminal, caused by corrosion.

The evidence is the circular burn pattern of the cardboard. The burn started there, and worked it way upward.
 

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May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
If you look at the photo I just uploaded, the circle looks like it was the source of initial failure.

The terminal, caused by corrosion.

The evidence is the circular burn pattern of the cardboard. The burn started there, and worked it way upward.
Interesting observation. What I do not understand is there are 3 pieces of black wire. Each one terminated in a crimped ring terminal. All thermally separated from each other, the terminated ends of the wires are maybe inch apart. All three black wires melted within seconds of each other. The white wire that is connected to the opposite side of the heating element to where you believe the fire started did not melt. It should be carrying the same current as the black wires but it does not melt, so the white wire and its terminals do not have high resistance I assume.
I'm really not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to understand what happened and if there is anything I can do to my new heater to reduce the chance this might happen again. I did check how tight all the terminals were on the new tank. As a matter of fact they were all tight on the old tank, I had to remove them to send the components into Seaward for their laboratory analysis of the reason this happened.

If that terminal you identified was corroded, had high resistance, and it started melting the black wire attached to the heating element, so then once that first black wire melted back to the thermostat why would the second piece of black wire attached to the other side of the thermostat melt ? Then the second piece of black wire melts back to the high temp reset and an inch away the third piece black wire starts to melt ?

It did not mention this before. This incident occurred just after supper as we were doing the dishes, the tank had probably been on since the morning. So we were drawing hot water from the tank and the heating element must have been on. We usually switched our hot water tank off at night because it was under our aft berth and in Florida it generated unwanted heat (not because we thought it was a safety issue). We found there was plenty of hot water in the morning if the heater was off all night.

While the Seaward owners manual has several pages of warning and cautions, no where does it mention it is intended for intermittent use and should only turned on while in use, or that the hot water tank should be turned off when the vessel was unattended.

The heater is controlled only by the breaker, if it had a control panel with a switch with a pilot light, I think people might have the idea to turn it off when not needed. It is the only 110 V device that is only turned on and off by a breaker, the air conditioner, battery charger ect all have their own power switch.

I don't think it would have burned up our boat had we not been on board when this happened. If the boat had been closed up with our dog inside I don't know if he would have made it. If the boat had not been vented right away after this incident I don't know if the smell could have been removed after a day or two of sitting closed up. The burning plastic smell was very strong. Fortunately there was a bit of a breeze, we have a large hatch in our aft cabin right above the hot water tank and I was able to quickly remove the tank from the boat.

I'm looking for a timer type switch for the hot water tank that only allows it to run for 60 minutes and then turns off. I assume they must make these for outdoor lights and such. Trying to keep an eye on the breaker for the hot water tank to be sure it has been turned off all the time is too hard at my age ;).

Bob
 
Mar 11, 2015
357
Hunter 33.5 Tacoma, WA
It think the terminal started things (circular burn theory), but the whole bottom of the cardboard caught fire, so it's feasible that the wires on the right burned from close proximity of the cardboard. There wasn't very much "fuel" for the fire, just the cardboard and wires, so it probably burned for about a minute.

Odd how the circuit breaker didn't blow with wires burning...
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
At home my toaster element runs red hot and does not trip the 15 A breaker.

From the time this started until I turned off the breaker was about 5 minutes. I think it was still drawing current when I turned off the breaker. As the cabin filled with smoke I had to catch the dog and carry him up the companionway onto the dock, and pass him onto Sherry. Then I returned to the cabin, opened all the hatches and ports to clear the smoke and killed the electricity. I flipped the mattress over in the aft berth, opened the locker for the hot water tank and confirmed that was the source of the smoke. There was still smoke coming out of it, lots of heat. I stood by with a fire extinguisher as it cooled down and the smoke subsided. The locker would contain the heat, it is a tight plywood box around the heater with a 4" foam mattress over it. There is only about a 1" airspace between the top of the hot water tank and the plywood lid.

Bob
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,048
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
My dos centavos.. Remember when the airlines had a problem with faulty insulation catching fire and sustaining fire at temperatures way below the specified number??..
I am going to go out on a limb here and propose that the substandard black insulation used in this heater started burning at a bad connection. Once that happened, it became hot enough to ignite the nearest other black substandard insulation .. Looks like the wire strands themselves are mostly intact .. Usually copper stranded wire will form little globules (tip of each strand) of melted copper at a break if the wire itself is overloaded/burning while conducting electricity.. It looks like there was enough wire left to allow the heater to function .. no overload needed nor indicated by evidence.. The incoming black is fine.. insulation not even melted..

EDIT: The airline problem was around the time when this heater was built.
Ya need a bad connection to set it off then away it goes.
 
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Dec 28, 2009
397
Macgregor M25 trailer
One of the common failure modes of water heater elements is a short to case, then the current flows thru the shell and the white return line has very little currentflowing in it.