A Better Mousetrap ? ? ?

Jan 4, 2006
6,486
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
................. just maybe.

Jabsco Heads. I don't think I'm telling any tales out of school when I say what a load of crap they are.

Only thing that's kept me from replacing mine with a respectable head is that the step where it's mounted appears to be made for a Jabsco with 1/2" clearance on either side of the base. Looks like I'm doomed to be stuck with this thing until the end of time.

In all fairness to Jabsco, I must say that when the head (specifically the pump) works, it works well. Problem is that the piston lubrication only lasts about a year. It then becomes a grueling bicep and tricep workout each time you pump out the head. Peggy had recommended Super Lube a number of years ago and although it is highly water resistant, one year is still the limit.

Lubricating the pump piston is always an exercise in frustration. Water coming off the top of the piston and WORSE hanging off the bottom. Always down the front of my shorts to. Not my idea of fun even when drunk.

This pump is not made for disassembly and assembly. Actually, it's just not made to be maintained. After a few disassemble/assemble cycles, the screw holes weaken and the required force to seal the gasket disappears. That along with the limited patience I had when I started the job. Reverse turning the screws until that starting "click" sounds does help but only for a few times.

Now, having collected an extensive assortment of Jabsco pump parts over the years, I thought I would see if I could cobble something together which might improve this monument to over-consumption. Essentially, if I could keep this thing lubricated, it might just last a little longer...... maybe. As it's thrown together in the factory, the pump has a shaft with a single piston on it. Unfortunately, this is the one thing I don't have a picture of here. The grease is all too soon wiped off the piston ring and the pump becomes a bear to pump.

In order to store grease near the piston ring, I installed two piston rings to hold grease. Room for the extra piston was made by adding an additional 1/2" of thread on the rod.






This formed a 1/16" deep cavity to store the grease.








Three years ago, the above assembly was heavily greased and slipped into the pump cylinder. It was only at the beginning of this summer that it needed another lube job.

I'm hoping for another three years until the next lube job.
 
Feb 10, 2004
3,942
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
Clever idea, Fred!

Although I was fortunate to convert my main head to a Raritan SeaEra electric, I still have a Jabsco in my forward head that sees very little use.

I may just try your modification for next year.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,672
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Our boat came with a brand new Jabsco head. It was the first thing I ripped out! The Raritan PHC (basically the same as Raritan PHII but fits smaller spaces) should easily fit where a Jabsco does....

I have literally not touched our PHII in 6 years, not even the joker, other than to lube the SS pump rod, externally, with SuperLube.

IMHO, for a manual pump head (not a vacuum based one), not much beats the Raritan PHC or PHII.....
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,776
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Our boat came with a brand new Jabsco head. It was the first thing I ripped out! The Raritan PHC (basically the same as Raritan PHII but fits smaller spaces) should easily fit where a Jabsco does....

I have literally not touched our PHII in 6 years, not even the joker, other than to lube the SS pump rod, externally, with SuperLube.

IMHO, for a manual pump head (not a vacuum based one), not much beats the Raritan PHC or PHII.....
And there's the Raritan LBA, which is ONLY the pump assembly, you reuse your old bowl.

Nice workaround, Ralph.

After many, many years swapping out old Wilcox Crittendon Head Mates, I bought a PHII, same experience as Maine Sail.
 
Jun 19, 2004
512
Catalina 387 Hull # 24 Port Charlotte, Florida
Just an idea that may work for you

I'm wondering about your disdain for tearing this thing down now every three years to lube it up. Is there a spot where you could drill and tap a hole so you could add a grease zerk? Then you grab a grease gun and squirt a couple shots of grease in it every so often and then you don't have to go through your frustration with this thing. Just thinking out loud here
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,672
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
And there's the Raritan LBA, which is ONLY the pump assembly, you reuse your old bowl.

Nice workaround, Ralph.

After many, many years swapping out old Wilcox Crittendon Head Mates, I bought a PHII, same experience as Maine Sail.

I often tend to think in terms of my costs and the PHC (complete head) actually costs me less than the LBA. Very few places stock the LBA so getting a good or competitive price on it can be more difficult...

As an example the Raritan PHC costs $284.99 at Defender (street pricing), this is the same head as the PHII only slightly narrower and without the crappy "skirt" that always falls off anyway on the PHII..

The PHII pump assembly alone, no base, costs $224.99 at Defender. (this pump assembly is the same for the PHII or the PHC)

A Raritan LBA is not stocked by Defender and Fisheries shows it at $340.28 & SBO has it for $314.00. SBO also shows a PHC LBA for $281.00 but this is only $4.00 less than a complete PHC from Defender.

That is more for the LBA, without bowl & seat, than you can buy the entire PHC head for. The PHC is a great value!!
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
I'm wondering about your disdain for tearing this thing down now every three years to lube it up. Is there a spot where you could drill and tap a hole so you could add a grease zerk? Then you grab a grease gun and squirt a couple shots of grease in it every so often and then you don't have to go through your frustration with this thing. Just thinking out loud here
Monthly - Put 16 oz of cooking oil in your bowl and slowly pump it through. Precede with a vinegar soak to dissolve any abrasive seawater deposits. I never grease my o-rings between rebuilds. Easy with the detergent cleaners, and oxidizers.
 
Sep 23, 2009
1,475
O'Day 34-At Last Rock Hall, Md
I'm wondering about your disdain for tearing this thing down now every three years to lube it up. Is there a spot where you could drill and tap a hole so you could add a grease zerk? Then you grab a grease gun and squirt a couple shots of grease in it every so often and then you don't have to go through your frustration with this thing. Just thinking out loud here
I like the way you think. Will the plastic hold the threads?
 
Aug 9, 2006
93
Oday 34 La Salle, Mi
I found every so often a 1/4 cup of cooking oil lubes the pump up well for a few weeks
 
Feb 10, 2004
3,942
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
According to Peggy Hall, our Head Mistress, using any kind of oil to lube the head is a bad idea from the point of odor elimination. The bacteria that digest the waste and eliminate odors need oxygen to survive. The other bacteria that produces odors thrives in the absence of oxygen and is killed with an oxygen source.

Adding cooking oil to the holding tank creates a film on the surface of the tank contents and keeps oxygen from dissolving into the effluent. Thus the oil kills the odor-eliminating bacteria and provides a beneficial environment for the odor-causing bacteria.

So adding cooking oil, or any other kind of oil, will provide you with a very fragrant tank.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
According to Peggy Hall, our Head Mistress, using any kind of oil to lube the head is a bad idea from the point of odor elimination. The bacteria that digest the waste and eliminate odors need oxygen to survive. The other bacteria that produces odors thrives in the absence of oxygen and is killed with an oxygen source.

Adding cooking oil to the holding tank creates a film on the surface of the tank contents and keeps oxygen from dissolving into the effluent. Thus the oil kills the odor-eliminating bacteria and provides a beneficial environment for the odor-causing bacteria.

So adding cooking oil, or any other kind of oil, will provide you with a very fragrant tank.
Actually no. A waste tank (+ hoses, valves) that is pumped with some reasonable regularity only needs to be managed as aerobic via a nitrate additive or bubbler. Anaerobic tanks stink - and you can create one by dosing your tank with any number of detergents, cleansers, formaldehyde, or something you believe to be antiseptic - which kills the aerobic bacteria. A dose of cooking oil between pumpouts is not going to cause a problem.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
ralph i like your idea of making the plunger piston double...it seems it would make the pump perform better having a double o ring
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,486
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
My Kingdom ........................

Is there a spot where you could drill and tap a hole so you could add a grease zerk? Then you grab a grease gun and squirt a couple shots of grease in it every so often and then you don't have to go through your frustration with this thing.
................... for a solution that simple.

As part of the worlwide Jabsco conspiracy, the cylinder wall of the pump is about 1/16" thick at best, hence unable to accept the threads of a zerk.

They COULD have put a small section on the wall that was sufficiently thick enough to accept a threaded fiting ..................... but not good for repair kit sales.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,415
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I applaud the work around. And I would buy a PHC if I were starting from scratch. But I've got the Jabsco so...


  1. Replace the pump assembly as a unit when pumping gets poor. My first lasted ~ 14 years, but I don't know how much it was used. Don't rebuild. A 10 minute swap. That was 3 years ago, and it pumps like new. $100.
  2. Use a Raritan PHII joker valve. Interchangeable, and the life of this part will be the same as for a PHII.
Over the 5-10 years most of us may own a boat, this is a simple, low-cost, hassle free approach. Beyond 10 years, most of us will have moved on to a different boat. I'm not shy about drilling holes, but OEM is nice too.



---


The head has got to be one of the simpler things to work on. Pump a bunch of clean water first, as well as the cleaning agent of choice (good time for an acid soak, which will sanitize everything without disturbing the holding tank culture unduly). No need for a sour disposition. Not as bad as diapers, and no worse than the home toilet. Perhaps I'm spoiled by good access and a bathtub floor.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,527
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Does simplicity win?

Our Pumpable porta-potty always works, although it is 37 years old.

- ensuring oxygen with Odorlos has eliminated odor. (Sometimes there is a whiff if we left the boat without pumping out, but it is quickly corrected with a dose of Odorlos.)

- capacity of our 5 gallon tank is at least as good as a 14 gallon holding tank, because we use little or no flushing water.

- we don't have the risk, complexity, or odor from pumping water through the hull for flushing.

- there is no maintenance at all!

I would seriously consider replacing my marine toilet with a good Pumpable porta-potty, if I had one.
 
Nov 22, 2011
1,192
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
Our Pumpable porta-potty always works, although it is 37 years old.

- ensuring oxygen with Odorlos has eliminated odor. (Sometimes there is a whiff if we left the boat without pumping out, but it is quickly corrected with a dose of Odorlos.)

- capacity of our 5 gallon tank is at least as good as a 14 gallon holding tank, because we use little or no flushing water.

- we don't have the risk, complexity, or odor from pumping water through the hull for flushing.

- there is no maintenance at all!

I would seriously consider replacing my marine toilet with a good Pumpable porta-potty, if I had one.
If you are talking about an MSD porta-potty then I concur 100%. This is what I installed in my Ericson 26 on Peggy's recommendation. The usable capacity actually significantly exceeds the 14 gal. tank I had in my previous Catalina 30. There is nothing to maintain and no odor. I have it plumbed with a macerator for overboard discharge when 3 miles out. It's an excellent solution.
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,773
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I've not found any of the heads stand up to daily use. Both of our PHII's have required a lot of maintenance and parts replacement. Right now, both pump housings are cracked at the exhaust elbow and as Maine mentioned, one can nearly replace the entire head for the price of this part. I HATE them. However, Jabsco makes a simple electric conversion that fits almost every manual head and it is a very simple conversion. It requires no maintenance and if I have any complaints, it's that they are pretty noisy. To get away from the PHII pump, I'll put up with that.
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,045
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
It's a design problem related to the installation. I recently had to replace the pump body on my Groco head when I found it cracked while installing a rebuild kit. For all of these heads they take an extremely stiff hose, bend it at a sharp angle and connect it to the pump assembly with a couple of clamps. The hose puts a very heavy side load on the pump assembly that they make out of cheap plastic with a thin wall that can't take the load over multiple pumping cycles. Ideally the hose should connect directly to the outlet in a straight line with no bends anywhere near the connection. But then how do you stuff the head right up against a side wall in the boat? If the pump body and joker valve housing was bronze or stainless it would be a lot better. I've also seen the gaskets deteriorate over time and crumble apart. Best to just get a bucket with a trash bag and one of those seats that fits the bucket :>) . Just like the cruise ships when all the power goes out for a week or so.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Whenever I can feel a bit more drag/friction when using the Jabsco. I squirt in some mineral oil. I believe veggie/cooking oil will gum up and cause more problems. After 8 years with the Jabsco, no problems except the joker. Next joker failure, I'll be looking for the Raritan one and see how that works out. And one day I'll get to the top-end piston lube Peggy suggests.