'87 Oday 272 fuel system

jibes138 · Mar 18, 2013

What are the "two" filters you removed? If there is water in them then they seem to be separating water in some way. Usually you have a racor immediately after the tank with a bowl to drain off any water or sediment and also has a replaceable cartridge for fine filtering of small particles. Then you have a fuel pump, then there is a filter mounted directly on the engine that is a screw on type, like an oil filter style but for diesel fuel. That should be probably 10 microns. There should be a valve on the fuel pickup tube at the top of the tank or in the line before the first filter to shut off the fuel supply. If you had a watery emulsion in the filters your tank should be pumped out, cleaned and refilled. Also figure out how water is getting in the tank, is the fill fitting O-ring leaking for instance? Pour some fuel into a clear sandwich baggie so you can see what it looks like, sediment and water will sink to the bottom and fuel will float on the top, see if it looks cloudy or clear, it should have color but not look cloudy. Old contaminated fuel will look like it has slime floating in it.
Your fuel flow is extremely low. I have a racor 120 fuel filter on my 35 and it works fine, so you don't need a high capacity model like on a diesel power boat. You probably only burn 1/2 to 1 gallon an hour. Large power boats are burning that much in a minute.

31seahorse · Mar 18, 2013

Hello Cbourne200,
When I removed the instrument panel on our 272LE the top of the fuel tank was visible. I did not look for a shut off, but that is where it might be. I was not thinking along those lines when I had it off. It is now held by only two screws, so I'll look tomorrow. Getting the panel off was a difficult job due to some very tenacious black, rubbery glue/caulk that had been added from the rear of the panel's cover. Good luck with that.

There is a bronze water separator in the starboard side sail locker on our boat. If your fuel line goes through that area you might be able to add the separator and a shut off there.
Phil

jibes138 · Mar 18, 2013

Go to the chandlery section on this site (store) and search on fuel filters. They have the Racor 120 series with plastic bowl and drain for 85 bucks. You can get a 2 micron or 10 micron for the same price. Both are more than adequate for your boat, I use this same filter on my 35. 15GPH fuel flow is way more than needed.

You should replace all your fuel lines if they are the original from when the boat was new. I did mine last year and they were cracked and leaking. Our boats are about the same age.

What is this "Groco" filter you refer to? Those are usually raw water filters for the engine raw water cooling circuit. Nothing to do with fuel. If it is connected to your fuel system I am not sure I understand why? Pictures would be helpful for us to give you advice.

There is no way a fuel shut off valve would be installed in a location where you would have to disassemble stuff to get at it. I can't possibly believe O'Day would do this?? The idea is to shut off the fuel if there is a fire, or so it doesn't siphon when you disconnect a hose or remove a fuel filter. It should be readily accessible. Your system should be tank, shut off valve, fuel filter, electric fuel pump, engine filter, engine.
What engine is in your boat? Is it a Universal?

Tom J · Mar 19, 2013

cbourne200 said:
Jibes - Westerbeke Ten-2 is engine. That's how I envision it too. Tank, shutoff valve, (a)filter, pump with filter, (b)filter, engine. Only part missing is shutoff valve and (a) filter in Groco housing. I think I have a pic somewhere... Hoses look to be in good shape. PO supposedly rebuilt engine before selling, so maybe changed hoses at that time too.

I took Groco body apart earlier looking for a filter, and found nothing inside. It definitely is connected to fuel line - lost about a cup of diesel into bilge since I didn't have a fuel shutoff valve. Was told later by other list members that this filter cost about $50.

Have purchased diesel fuel can, siphon to get all fuel out of old tank, and will get set of Westerbeke filters tomorrow just in case I need to replace fouled filters I just replaced. One had $11 written on it, but don't know when it was purchased. Will get the Racor you mention and install in about 3 wks. Just trying to make sure I don't damage anything caused by water intrusion. Won't be available for about 2 wks starting Wed. Will get fuel line tomorrow and work on it tomorrow night. Thanks for your help and suggestions.

Charles

From the pictures, it looks like where the Groco filter housing is would be a good place to install a new Racor filter/water separator.

jibes138 · Mar 19, 2013

Can't say I've ever seen a groco fuel filter like that, but it must be a water separating filter. I did a search on the net and found you a filter element for the Groco filter for 35 bucks. It looks like you already have what you need in your boat and don't need a new filter, you just need to put a filter element inside the housing. The housing has a plug on the bottom to drain off any water, so you should do that regularly. I never knew Groco made a filter like that so I stand corrected, learn something new every day. Note the Racor elements are about 22 bucks so this is a better deal for you to just get the element, you can change it for twenty years before you'd eat the cost of a whole new filter assembly from Racor.
Groco Filter Element For Gf 375 GRO-GF376

Groco GRO-GF376

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Availability: In stock
Regular Price: $53.00
Special Price: $34.98

http://www.jmsonline.net/filter-element-for-gf-375.htm

Maine Sail · Mar 19, 2013

Replace that Groco with a good Racor. The Groco's are simple filters not water separators. The 120 series would work fine but I generally prefer the 500MA series.. Use a 10 or 30 micron in your new primary filter..

You'll want to stick a dip tube to the absolute lowest point in your tank and extract any water that may be in the tank. While the Racor filters can separate water, so it can be drained off, if there is enough water the 120 series will simply pass it through to the injectors.. You really need to clean the tank and rid it of water..

jibes138 · Mar 20, 2013

Cbourne,
Maine Sail is a reknowned sailboat system expert who runs a service business fixing boats. I can not argue with his expert advice. The Groco is advertised as a water seperating filter but the way it happens is the filter media sheds water so the fuel passes through but water collects in the bowl. The Racor 120 is a similar design where the element is the water rejection system. These are intended for very small amounts of water in the fuel and after months of use you might see a small amount of water in the bowl. If you have a huge amount of water in the fuel you need to drain your tank, clean it and refill it, most areas have fuel polishing people that will do this for you or you can get a pump and some tanks and empty it yourself. A new filter won't help for long if your fuel is severely contaminated.

The Racor 500MA series is the "cats meow" and separates the water with a centrifuge type action and has a second stage that futher removes water before putting the fuel through the filter media. If you can afford it this is pretty much the industry standard for new good quality boats.

I am glad to hear your motor started with good fuel from a fresh tank, that is very good news for the motor.

Your problem with draining the tank is diesel fuel has a return line that needs to go back in the tank, if you didn't disconnect the fuel return line from the main tank and run it into your portable tank then you pumped 2 gallons of diesel into your already contaminated main fuel tank. So don't do this repeatedly or you will overflow your main tank out the vent hole and cause an environmental spill, run your return line back into your portable tank for this temporary method and you should run on 2 gallons for 2 to 4 hours maybe longer depending on engine load, RPM's and such.

pgiorda · Mar 20, 2013

I have an 87 272 and in the lazarette is the groco water fuel separator, and there should be a filter in it:

Original part number : GF-376 (link: http://www.groco.net/07-heatex/gf-376.html )
2-5 micron filtration separates water and sediment from fuel.
It's 3.5" high x 2" Dia. with a 0.5" dia. hole on top.

You can find it online at most marine supply stores

As for a shutoff I believe I have one on the supply line from the tank to the groco filter and another on the engine after the last 2 filters on the engine.

To replace the aft fuel filters on the engine the oil filter has to be off so the canister can be lowered.

tedsbeds · Mar 22, 2013

That Groco filter/seperator though bronze is a pain to deal with. Elements are expensive and it is hard to get new O ring to line up in groove before putting on cover. Mine leaked air into the system and prevent the engine from starting. I plan to replace it with one with a see through bowl. Also there is a shut off on top of the tank in the pick-up line. Stupid place! I removed mine and installed one just up stream from the Groco filter.

31seahorse · Mar 23, 2013

Fuel Shut Off..........I've found you! :dance:

With camera in hand I removed the instrument panel and clicked a picture. There is a fuel shut off valve on the top of the fuel tank in the 272LE. I think I will follow the suggestions made here in earlier posts and change the bronze Groco filter to a Racor and I will add a shut off valve in the same area. Now, should the valve be after the filter or prior to it?
Phil

Maine Sail · Mar 24, 2013

While Groco describes these as "water separating" filters I don't personally consider them as such. I suppose because they put a drain plug in the bottom, and use a treated paper, they feel that qualifies? I consider a water separator to have the filter media well out of or elevated above the bottom of the filter housing where water will collect. The Groco element is nearly the full container length and as such can sit in water. Water is bad for this filter media and can eventually cause it to break down. Another issue I have seen with them is the metal end caps of the filter element rusting when water gets into the bowl. This can make a real mess. Perhaps they've changed that design by now????

A Racor 120 or 500 series has no metal in the filter element. With no sight bowl it can be very tough to discern whether or not there is water in there and it becomes a real crap shoot as to when to "drain it"... With no easy opening drain valve, as Racors come with, you are forced to remove a threaded plug to drain the bowl. This can make a huge smelly mess if not very careful. Ideally these should be fitted with a drain off valve, but most are not.

Also the cost of the filters is quite steep. With a bad batch of fuel you could easily spend darn close to what a Racor costs, or more.. Even on sale at Defender the Groco elements are $40.50 and a brand new Racor 120, with a filter is only $70.00... Add a new filter and drain off valve and you've just paid what it would cost to buy a good Racor filter with sight bowl...

Tom J · Apr 16, 2013

cbourne200 said:
Maine Sail - I purchased a Racor water separating filter (R120S). Filter has 2 inports and 2 out ports. Filter came with 2 caps/plugs (1/2 " long nipples) that I assume need to close off 1 set of ports - but which one? Ports are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 with arrows indicating direction of flow. Or does it matter as long as I have one in and one out?

Question 2 - Paperwork mentions tapered threads I don't have barbs fittings, so assume I can pick up at WM or somewhere so that I can place rubber fuel line over them to bring fuel from tank to filter, then from filter to engine. Any ideas or thoughts, or where can I get them?

Have had back problems for last week, so haven't tried standing on my head in starboard lazarette, yet... If weather cooperates this weekend, I'll try to get this done and not throw back out again. Tank is drained (not cleaned, but can't really get to it to clean). I drained about 4+ gal of diesel out of the tank that I don't know what to do with... Since water tends to sink, can I skim off upper fuel and place in tank?

Any words of wisdom before I try this?

I feel your pain. My back has been out this week also. Very frustrating. As far as the fuel you've drained and the condition of your tank goes, I'd hire a fuel polishing company to come to the boat. They will either put the fuel in the tank, and polish the fuel and clean the tank all at once, or start with fresh fuel and take the old fuel with them. To polish the fuel, they put two hoses into your tank, and run them to a machine with a pump and series of filters. The machine runs fuel through the tank several times, removing crud and water and filtering the fuel.
The hose barbs you can get at WM or NAPA for that matter. I'm pretty sure you can use any two of the inlets/outlets, just make sure the plugs are secure in the unused holes. Maine Sail can verify that. Good luck.

'87 Oday 272 fuel system

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