'81 H22 Restore

[KristinKaye]

Hi everyone,

I got our H22 in the shop to do a restore and some refits on it this winter. It has a lot of misc cracks and spiderwebs in the gelcoat - mainly on the deck. So it will be time consuming to restore her to new condition. At first I thought it might be possible to simply clean up the hull and buff it out. But the waterline stain would not come off with any chemical cleaner that I could find, pressure washer did not work even with hot water, and the buffer and rubbing compound wouldn't touch it. The only thing that takes it off is wet sanding with 600 grit - along with the paint. And that's a lot of work - it took me all day to get this much done (although getting the OEM pinstripes off without damaging the gelcoat is not a fast process either):

As long as I'm going to shoot the hull with Imron anyway there's a lot of dock dings, three minor cracks and some chips in the gelcoat on the hull that I can fix. I'll finish prepping the white for painting on the trailer, then pick her off the trailer with two forklifts and straps and put some safety stands under her to prep the bottom blue.

To make the job of painting both the hull and deck easier I was considering removing the toe rails instead of taping them off. Has anyone ever pulled the toe rails on a H22? I was wondering if the screws are self tapping, or if they used machine screws and nuts at the hull to deck joint?

 

[Dave602]

If the stripe is vinyl use a heat gun and plastic scraper. just keep the heat gun moving to keep from burning. It only needs warming slightly and then scrape. I removed mine and cleaned up the residue with acetone

 

[KristinKaye]

Thanks - that's basically what I'm doing. But the pinstripes are damaged from dock rubs and dings over the years so they tend to come off in little pieces because as soon as you get to a little hole or break in the pinstripe it breaks and you have to start over. The port side stripes were in better condition and go pretty fast. The starboard side is 2" at a time. There's not going to be any pinstripes on it this time. She's going to get two-tone navy blue/white (aka Hallberg-Rassy) paint scheme.

 

[inarathree]

Get a 3M eraser wheel (or equivalent) for removing the decals. This was a question that was just asked in this forum.

To return the hull to like new, I would (and have) follow Maine Sail's directions for hull restoration.

 

[KristinKaye]

I got an eraser wheel and I won't use one on gelcoat because they create enough heat at the friction point to soften it. They work great on steel, though, although if you use too much pressure it will burn or remove paint. And they're not really any faster than a heat gun and rag.

I got a reply back from Marlow-Hunter on the hull to deck joint. The screws are self tap and the deck was married to the hull flange with 3M 5200. So both toe rails can be removed without fear of anything coming loose or getting out of alignment on the deck to hull joint.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

What most do not understand, gel coat over the years will become pouous if not treated and will wear away even with time. Look at decals being removed and sometimes that gel coat is raised a little over the rest of the hull. When stains get into those pours, it is hard to get out. The last resort is what most do, sand or in some cases, compound out those stains which in essence takes a lot of effort getting the hull back to a smooth flat non pourous surface. At that point, some apply marine paints, gel coats or simply wax the heck out of it when it should have been done in the first place. I hope this will explain some of what it going on.

 

[KristinKaye]

The stain on the white at the waterline is embedded right into the gelcoat. Wet sanding is the only way it cleans up. The stain got into the gelcoat due to the boat not being cleaned and properly waxed and polished, keeping the gelcoat sealed, before we bought it. After I shoot the boat with Imron that problem will be gone for the rest of the life of the boat.

Wet sanding is a lot of work because it has to be done by hand, but overlapping onto the barrier coat doesn't hurt it. I'm using 600 for removing the stain. Then I'll tape off the barrier coat and go over the whole thing with 320 to prepare the surface for Imron. The barrier coat on the bottom of the hull is in perfect condition and not a single blister anywhere on her.

 

[earlfixit]

FYI. The brown stain at the water line is easily removed with Snowie Bowl cleaner from the Dollar Store or the cheep store brand at Wal-Mart. I apply it with rubber gloves and a green scrub pad even though I just rub it on for the most part. I then wash and wax it. I've been doing this for years when I take the boat to Pensacola for a week or more on the BEER Cruise. It works great.

 

[203]

FYI. The brown stain at the water line is easily removed with Snowie Bowl cleaner from the Dollar Store or the cheep store brand at Wal-Mart. I apply it with rubber gloves and a green scrub pad even though I just rub it on for the most part. I then wash and wax it. I've been doing this for years when I take the boat to Pensacola for a week or more on the BEER Cruise. It works great.

I used plain ole Clorox on an old power boat I had with same issues. Sunny day, Clorox, and rubber gloves. Stain just went away on mine. It was from sitting in an algae ridden lake then never cleaned properly. I did apply it with a scouring pad, the ones that have sponge on one side and rough synthetic weave on the other.

 

[KristinKaye]

I cut into the gelcoat with a dremel to see how far in the stain went - .030". The gelcoat on this boat was soft - so soft that lifting straps left impressions in it on the white but not on the barrier coat on the bottom of the hull. Assuming you could clean it up with a chemical cleaner (which you can't when the gelcoat is that bad), it would never stay looking good anyway. It needs to be sealed.

So I sanded the outer .030" off it to get down to good gelcoat. I got 2 - 3 days more prep work on the white part of the hull fixing dings and scrapes and chips in the gelcoat that went deeper than what I sanded off. Then I'll shoot the white with DuPont MS100. No sense to using gelcoat paste for fixing dings and deep scratches that don't go all the way thru the gelcoat when the boat is being painted anyway - I'm using BondoGlass for that. DuPont MS100 will permanently seal it and the hull will be maintenance free except for re-applying the antifouling coating now and then.

The only problem with DuPont Marine MS100 is the cost - $640/gallon.

 

[203]

That looks beautiful. When you're finished, I'll bring mine over (c:

I think taking the soft stuff off and repainting will give you a long term excellent result.

 

[KristinKaye]

With boats older than 20 years I think it's the only way to go. Gelcoat is not a long-life, nor a durable finish. It softens with age and after about 20 years you'll be fighting a loosing battle on a boat that's in the water all the time. Even if you keep it looking good it will start to blister if you don't seal it.

It's a lot of work to paint a yacht but the time spent doing it will keep the yacht looking good without constant work later, dealing with gelcoat that has become soft and porous with age.

I worked late last night fixing dings, pin holes and defects in the gelcoat, and shot the hull late this afternoon.

 

[Stu Jackson]

That's one way.

Then there's this: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117266

 

[KristinKaye]

That's one way.

Then there's this: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117266

Yes, definitely you can restore the gelcoat to a glossy finish but I question its durability on an older boat over using DuPont Marine Imron MS100. If you restore and use wax for a sealer the gelcoat will still continue to degrade and the boat will remain high maintenance. The MS100 coating permanently seals it and prevents further degradation of your gelcoat.

The downsides to using MS100 are that it is expensive and it is highly toxic. It was invented by DuPont in 1970 as an industrial coating that is impervious to chemicals (including acids) and has approximately the same abrasion properties as ASTM 1012 carbon steel after it fully cures (which takes about 30 days after application). It requires the use of breathing and ventilation filters with activated charcoal because the overspray dust and fumes are highly toxic.

The upside to using the MS100 is that it is truly a maintenance free finish. No waxing required (although you can wax it if you want deep mirror appearance).

 

[KristinKaye]

The deck was a lot work. Two weeks, 10-12 hours a day every day except Christmas.

 

[twodzusfittings]

Wow, that's all I can say. It always impresses me when I see someone do a job with such passion. So often you see boats that have half ass attempts at refurbishing. I am going to use your example when I haul my boat out. Thank you for displaying your work.

 

[KristinKaye]

What took all the time on the deck was fixing cracks and spiderwebs in the gelcoat. Every single crack has to be routed out and relieved with a dremel down to the glass. Some of them water had gotten into the glass, which requires grinding the glass out and laying up new glass in the bad spot, and re-gelcoat it. There was areas in the radiuses, like from the deck to the cabin trunk, where there was voids under the gelcoat caused by the builders not paying attention to laying the glass tight to the gelcoat when the drop-in deck assy was being laid up in the mold. Very time consuming to fix all those factory defects. And that sort of stuff is pretty common in production boats.

Finally I shot the deck with DuPont MS100 to seal the gelcoat. When renewing the non-skid surfaces I made a couple improvements like extending the non-skid epoxy part way up the tub in the cockpit. There was a lot of scuff marks from people's heels hitting the gelcoat there over time. And none of the radius from the floor to the walls in the cockpit tub were done right at the factory. There was voids under the gelcoat there all along both sides and the front of the tub. It was so bad I cut the gelcoat out with a air saw, ground the bad glass out and re-laid the radius on the whole bottom of the tub. Then put the non-skid epoxy on that radius to protect it from damage in the future.

I'm going to make a couple other improvements like coating the inside of the anchor locker with Herculiner truck bed coating, putting stainless steel backing plates inside the hull where the stanchions bolt on, and stainless steel backing plates on the stern chainplates for the lifelines.

Still have to refurbish some of the teak, the cockpit locker and cooler lids, and the boat is getting all new standing and running rigging with a permanently installed block and fairleads for a downhaul line on the jib.

Amazingly, the mast step on the deck had not settled with age. Kudos to Hunter for designing a good system there. The compression post was in good shape and no soft spots in the deck core. Very few older boats that I've worked on with a deck stepped mast where the mast step has not moved due the cabin trunk settling with age. And they also did a good job with marrying the deck to the hull flange. Not a single separation anywhere on that joint after 32 years.

All in all, these first generation H22's are a dang stout built boat. They could've paid a bit more attention to fit and finish. But I can't fault the stoutness of the design. I've worked on Bristols, Irwins, Mull Rangers and Catalinas of the same era that had a lot more problems than this boat had.

 

[SeaTR]

Wowie - Kazowie !! What an EXCELLENT job thus far. I also appreciate you posting detailed pictures of your efforts. Post more if you have the time. 10Q !

I'm still holding off on attacking the gelcoat dings and spiders on my '81 H22 salvage boat...too busy trying to get time on the water with the limited season in New England. Thus, if it doesn't directly impact day sailing on Long Is Sound, then it can wait.

 

[KristinKaye]

SeaTR - fixing a few minor dings and spiders in the gelcoat is not TOO bad if you can color match the gelcoat with the existing gelcoat after polishing it out. When you route out the cracks make sure to go beyond the end of the crack a 1/4 to 1/2 inch to stress relieve it.

If you plan on sealing the old gelcoat by painting, then the boat is going to be out of the water for awhile. Everything has to stripped off the boat to do that. And it's not fun taking all the hardware off. I ended up replacing all bolts and screws with new when re-bedding the deck hardware. Stainless steel galls the threads and it's not really designed for assembly-disassembly-reassembly. Invariably, better than half the stainless steel locknuts end up seizing about halfway off and you end up cutting the bolt to get it out. My wife helped by going inside the boat with a selection of wrenches to hold nuts and we made an inventory as we went as to what needed to be ordered to replace the hardware.

 

[KristinKaye]

Post more if you have the time. 10Q !

All I got done today was to refinish the teak for the companionway hatch and washboards. There is a streak in the top washboard and no matter how much I sanded or oiled it that streak would not disappear. I have no idea what caused it.