78 H30 Rudder Support

[Yeki]

Hello All,

We picked up a 78 H30 last summer. After pulling it out of the water, we found damage to the bottom of the skeg. A previous owner attempted to attach a shoe, but, only created more damage. I also found a bit of axial play in the rudder and so decided to remove the rudder and repair the skeg as well as the worn rudder bearing. What I found was that the rudder appears to be supported solely by the stuffing box via the base of the steering quadrant. Does anyone know if the full weight of the rudder was to be supported by the skeg? I find it hard to believe that the skeg bearing would have been the sole support for the rudder but I can find no other support. Does the stuffing box in the H30 act as a support bearing for the rudder?

 

[kito]

There was a post a while back here about someone wanting to remove the skeg all together. Some have done this. I believe the rudder is not supported by the skeg but it does pivot on it at the bottom.

 

[Yeki]

Thank you Kito. I appreciate the reply.
I did read over that post and a bunch of others regarding the H30 rudder and steering, but, I didn't see what I was after.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

To my knowledge most of the weight of the rudder sits on the bottom pintle. This is one major benefit of a skeg-hung rudder. The little bronze stuffing box (I think it's from Buck-Algonquin; not sure) Hunter used is a gem of a part; but it should not be relied-upon to support weight (as this would sort of crush the hose in the middle of it). The rudder is not heavy when in the water-- only when out of the water since most of them are full of water! The skeg is typically made with a stainless-steel frame or 'rack' including a top plate, for mounting to the skeg of the hull, and a welded flat at the bottom holding the pin or hole for the rudder to sit into/onto.

I have not worked on Hunter 30s per se but happen to know they are set up the same as the Raider 33 (or should I say the reverse), which I have built and worked on, which uses the very same parts (as Raider bought them from Hunter in those days).

BTW the other great benefits of a skeg-hung rudder are:

2. Provides protection in the event of impact. I know a lot of people will believe that the skeg can't possibly resist damage. And it can't entirely; but, in the impact that can damage the rudder, the skeg will take most of it, sparing the rudder blade perhaps enough to let you get home.

3. Provides a curve to the rudder-skeg combination when turning, especially tightly or in reverse. This resists the tendency to stall the rudder and 'persuades' the boat around more smoothly and at higher speed.

Neither the independent spade rudder nor the transom-hung outboard rudder provide any of these three benefits. Indeed the spade rudder will stall almost by design; and under power the sideways-shifted leading edge will do funny things to the tiller if you are too throttle-happy. I wish I had a skeg on my H25.

The attached photos show an R33 I repaired after Storm Sandy. The rudder was badly damaged but we happened to have had an actual Raider 33 rudder on hand and detached and repaired the skeg and re-hung it with the 'new-old-stock' rudder. The bottom plate with pinhole is not yet reattached in this pic.

The second pic is of me using the hole in the hull as an access port before we re-'glassed the hull. Through this I reattached new Edson rudder cables to the quadrant I refurbed.

The 3rd pic is of a neighboring H30 which I took for reference. Aside from the much larger, thicker pintle at the bottom, in theory it is the same setup as on the R33.

 

[Yeki]

Thank you for the input DOB.
This is some helpful information. The PO had fitted a sort of stainless steel shoe to the broken skeg, but, the week point was the single through bolt that he used. The shoe didn't go up far enough on the skeg and the bolt didn't pass through the meat of the skeg. It went through about a half inch from the break at which point, the through bolt broke through the glass leaving a loose hanging shoe. I'll post pics next time I go to the boat.
Having "some" glassing experience and no metal fab experience, my plan was to rebuild the skeg tip using West System epoxy and fiber. I also planned to rebuild the support bearing in the skeg tip using West System epoxy/graphite, similar to the West System method for repairing rudder bearings. If indeed the skeg is to support the rudder (whether in or out of the water), I'm now concerned that my repair may not be strong enough. I now have more to think about. Spring is slowly arriving!

Thanks to all for your attention to this thread.