I am looking to add a heat exchanger to my raw water cooled 5411 in my 1981 C30. Has anyone had experience adding a heat exchanger to one of these motors?
5411 Diesel Heat Exchanger
- Thread starter Blue Hull
- Start date
Does that engine not have a coolent tank with antifreeze in it?..... is the enging running seawater completly thru it?....
If this is the case, it may be a bit late, economically, to try and convert it to an enclosed freshwater cooling system due to the advanced corrosion in that age of motor.
But there are heat exchangers manufactured to cover about any application you need one for.
Its actually a fairly simple process of plumbing an aftermarket model into the system if you have the installation room available.
Its the initial cost of the unit that will hurt.
Here's a source for HXs: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6920.0.html
centerline's right. Changing a raw water cooled engine to fershwater (coolant) cooled is more than just slapping on a HX. Are you sure about your ability to do this?
I'd use Google: modifying a raw water cooled to freshwater cooled diesel engine
Good luck, I'm sure the info is out there.
centerline's right. Changing a raw water cooled engine to fershwater (coolant) cooled is more than just slapping on a HX. Are you sure about your ability to do this?
I'd use Google: modifying a raw water cooled to freshwater cooled diesel engine
Good luck, I'm sure the info is out there.
Another possibility is plumbing so you can flush the engine with fresh water and even store the engine with fresh water in it. We plumbed the sink to the water intake (need valve to open sink drain to engine), seacocks on salt water intake and sink drain outlet are shut. Fill sink with fresh water, add an anticorrosive if you want, run engine until sink is empty, close valves. Engine is flushed, fresh water remains in engine (with anticorrosive). Engine can be flushed when away at anchor from fresh water tanks. Very easy to do.
Blue Hull,
I agree with the guys regarding it being a lil' too late in the game to add a heat exchanger now. We also have a 5411 & have a fresh water intake valve on the cold / raw water intake line, so that we can also pour fresh water with antifreeze in the lines when she's layed up over winter. At least for 6 months of the year, our engine gets flushed with fresh water with anti corrosive type anti freeze in the mix. That's probably what has let our diesel last this long. But after 34 years our engine is still running strong (knock on wood) & our tough has nails 5411 has never let us down. Indeed diesel marine engines usually don't give up on their owners, more like their owners give up on proper maintenance & then their engine dies. Don't be the latter! Cheers.
I agree with the guys regarding it being a lil' too late in the game to add a heat exchanger now. We also have a 5411 & have a fresh water intake valve on the cold / raw water intake line, so that we can also pour fresh water with antifreeze in the lines when she's layed up over winter. At least for 6 months of the year, our engine gets flushed with fresh water with anti corrosive type anti freeze in the mix. That's probably what has let our diesel last this long. But after 34 years our engine is still running strong (knock on wood) & our tough has nails 5411 has never let us down. Indeed diesel marine engines usually don't give up on their owners, more like their owners give up on proper maintenance & then their engine dies. Don't be the latter! Cheers.
there definitely are stand alone heat exchangers manufactured that can be adapted between the raw water intake and the raw water outlet (exhaust?).....
you reroute the seawater hoses from the seawater pump to the the seawater intake side of the exchanger.... then seawater outlet from the exchanger to the exhaust cooling/outlet.....
then plumb the engine water outlet to the engine side of the exchanger, and then from the "cooled" port on the exchanger to back to the engine inlet.....
the exchanger is self contained and has the engine cooling cap on it to fill the system... typically these need to be mounted slightly above the engine.
ive installed a few of them over the years to convert a seawater cooled engine to a fresh water closed loop system.. they do work well, but are expensive.
the brand im familiar with is from san juan engineering....
but even though its possible, it still holds true that and old rusted engine may not be a candidate for this conversion.
you reroute the seawater hoses from the seawater pump to the the seawater intake side of the exchanger.... then seawater outlet from the exchanger to the exhaust cooling/outlet.....
then plumb the engine water outlet to the engine side of the exchanger, and then from the "cooled" port on the exchanger to back to the engine inlet.....
the exchanger is self contained and has the engine cooling cap on it to fill the system... typically these need to be mounted slightly above the engine.
ive installed a few of them over the years to convert a seawater cooled engine to a fresh water closed loop system.. they do work well, but are expensive.
the brand im familiar with is from san juan engineering....
but even though its possible, it still holds true that and old rusted engine may not be a candidate for this conversion.
Interesting. But how is the fresh water (coolant) circulated through the exchanger? Wouldn't you need an additional pump, whether electric or belt driven?
all water cooled engines have a water circulation pump, usually driven by a belt... such as you have on your car engine.
Blue,
I have only one question.
Why do you feel you need a heat exchanger on your single pass raw water engine?
I only remember an exhaust riser to my water muffler. Is not the heat exchanger on the exhaust side of the engine? Heat exchangers are meant to cool the hot gas & coolant water coming from the engine before the muffler & o'board pump out. Adding a heat exchanger will have nothing to do with your internal engine temperature, as I remember.
Keep in mind, the 5411 had a special internal "Cladding" to protect it from fresh or salt water. I changed my engine out in 1996. I redid the seals & repainted the engine per spec. I never saw rust or corrosion from the internals. I sold this for $2500.00. This offset my 3M20A by 50%.
If having a heating problem, I think there may be a culprit somewhere, per your thread question. If not having to motor in 90° water temperatures, why do you want fix something that may not need fixing?
CR
I have only one question.
Why do you feel you need a heat exchanger on your single pass raw water engine?
I only remember an exhaust riser to my water muffler. Is not the heat exchanger on the exhaust side of the engine? Heat exchangers are meant to cool the hot gas & coolant water coming from the engine before the muffler & o'board pump out. Adding a heat exchanger will have nothing to do with your internal engine temperature, as I remember.
Keep in mind, the 5411 had a special internal "Cladding" to protect it from fresh or salt water. I changed my engine out in 1996. I redid the seals & repainted the engine per spec. I never saw rust or corrosion from the internals. I sold this for $2500.00. This offset my 3M20A by 50%.
If having a heating problem, I think there may be a culprit somewhere, per your thread question. If not having to motor in 90° water temperatures, why do you want fix something that may not need fixing?
CR
My Yanmar 1GM has one pump, which is not belt driven but attaches directly to the engine and is driven by a shaft. Assuming that pump would be handling the raw water circuit in a hypothetical FW conversion, what pump would take care of the FW side? It seems like a second pump would have to be added for this purpose.
It would appear the engine you have does only come equipped with an external pump.... so you would in fact need another one installed to circulate one side of the heat exchanger .
All, Thank you for helping. As I was considering on overhaul on my 5411 I wanted to investigate this upgrade. Since my boat will likely never see salt water during my ownership it seems to be a cost prohibitive upgrade. As it stands now, my best option appears to be purchasing a overhauled 5411 with warranty and giving them mine as a core. I would not expect corrosion problems resulting in overheating. My current motor, 1981 vintage, does not overheat. It is simply tired and needs overhaul.
Granting that your engine spent its life running in fresh water, why not rebuild it? If you do a core swap you'd want to be sure you are not getting a rebuilt engine that was run in a salt water environment.
I had not considered that a rebuilt engine may have come from a salt water environment. I will investigate this with the company selling the Overhauled marine engines here in Wisconsin. I am investigating my options at this time. My initial findings suggest that when adding the cost for the parts to overhaul the motor, plus machine work, plus labor, I would be saving very little over the price I have found for a complete rebuilt motor and trans with warranty. Maybe the source for the overhauled motors will rebuild mine rather than swap mine as a core for the next guy. As my boat has been hauled for the Winter, and I don't need the motor until Spring, I am in no hurry for it.
The only other thing is to consider is that most of the 5411 engine can be rebuilt in place, but to remove the existing engine & trans & replace is an additional PITA. Although the 5411 engine is the lightest of all the Universal motors, & can be hauled out with assistance from the boom.
There is a fresh water cooling kit for the 5411. I have one on my 1981 Catalina 30 w/ the 5411.
A coolant pump is added to the aft end of the engine power takeoff where the Raw water pump is located and the plumbing is re-routed through a Heat Exchanger (part # 300118). This is a 2" HX mounted vertically with a fill cap and tank at the top. It is a relatively easy conversion, but the individual parts are expensive.
If you can find the kit on line it would be best. Someone may have a stock of these somewhere. If you can't find it online call around to Catalina dealers.
Good luck,
Jeff
A coolant pump is added to the aft end of the engine power takeoff where the Raw water pump is located and the plumbing is re-routed through a Heat Exchanger (part # 300118). This is a 2" HX mounted vertically with a fill cap and tank at the top. It is a relatively easy conversion, but the individual parts are expensive.
If you can find the kit on line it would be best. Someone may have a stock of these somewhere. If you can't find it online call around to Catalina dealers.
Good luck,
Jeff