50 vs 70hp on 26M
- Thread starter Jim22483
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You Yours ???
You Yours, I'm not sure where to insert the "I" in this "Dong Bud’s w/BT". However in exploring your hints a little further, since I don't do illegal substances and only do "Heavy Bonding" with my wife; I'm not sure that I would have understood what it meant even if I knew where to place the "I". Seriously though, it is still my firm contention that the weight difference between any new 50hp and the 90TLDI; and the affect that delta weight has on the sailing performance of the 26M, amounts to less than having one more adult in the cockpit on any given weekend. So it is insignificant unless you're racing under sail. And if I'm in any kind of hurry I'm going to get there a lot faster than any sailboat in Texas (lol). Also if I may, please permit me to ask you again - What boat do you own and sail? And may I add, if it's a powersailor what kind of motor do have? Regards, JonBill
You Yours, I'm not sure where to insert the "I" in this "Dong Bud’s w/BT". However in exploring your hints a little further, since I don't do illegal substances and only do "Heavy Bonding" with my wife; I'm not sure that I would have understood what it meant even if I knew where to place the "I". Seriously though, it is still my firm contention that the weight difference between any new 50hp and the 90TLDI; and the affect that delta weight has on the sailing performance of the 26M, amounts to less than having one more adult in the cockpit on any given weekend. So it is insignificant unless you're racing under sail. And if I'm in any kind of hurry I'm going to get there a lot faster than any sailboat in Texas (lol). Also if I may, please permit me to ask you again - What boat do you own and sail? And may I add, if it's a powersailor what kind of motor do have? Regards, JonBill
Living Large on the West Coast
b.t. Living Large on the West Coast You’re doing great Bobby T. Your chiming in with confusion can be more related to the consumption of adult libation and being the proud owner of an Mac X re-powered with your 04 90hp Nissan/Tohatsu clone. From a previous post! Bobby T.-26X #4767 http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=43651&highlight=#43651 JonBill Great inference to the “Aye” reference. As to your question on my PP and assets? I’ve paid for and sailed many from a Peterson 42’ Offshore Racer to a Pram. I presently own an International Thunderbird Class One Design, Naples Sabot, and “M” w/DF50 auxiliary power. Please hold off in your analogy of overweight crew (mobile ballast) and Huge Fat Heavy Engines Bolted permanently to the Transom. I have been privileged to know many sailors of which none would be passed without adjusting their running rigging and sheets to better their sailing yachts performance, especially when approaching or being overtaken on any point of sail. Most Boats in Texas belong to the “X’s” of which many are fast or faster.
b.t. Living Large on the West Coast You’re doing great Bobby T. Your chiming in with confusion can be more related to the consumption of adult libation and being the proud owner of an Mac X re-powered with your 04 90hp Nissan/Tohatsu clone. From a previous post! Bobby T.-26X #4767 http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=43651&highlight=#43651 JonBill Great inference to the “Aye” reference. As to your question on my PP and assets? I’ve paid for and sailed many from a Peterson 42’ Offshore Racer to a Pram. I presently own an International Thunderbird Class One Design, Naples Sabot, and “M” w/DF50 auxiliary power. Please hold off in your analogy of overweight crew (mobile ballast) and Huge Fat Heavy Engines Bolted permanently to the Transom. I have been privileged to know many sailors of which none would be passed without adjusting their running rigging and sheets to better their sailing yachts performance, especially when approaching or being overtaken on any point of sail. Most Boats in Texas belong to the “X’s” of which many are fast or faster.
You Yours - Your Committed Now!
You Yours, You committed yourself. You're not in the new class of trailer sailor - powersailors. You're a luxury yachtsman! Yes you are too!! So tell the truth now big guy - isn't it true that Bobby 'dusted' you in his little sailboat coming back from Catalina one time and now you just got to try to get even with him by bugging him on this board (?)! Either that or all the X and M's in So. Cal. have been dusting you out there for a long time, and you're just sick and tired of it and would just hate to see more powersailors upgrading with 90's - eh?! Now that could be it too. We got you pegged - big guy! Kindest Regards, JonBill
You Yours, You committed yourself. You're not in the new class of trailer sailor - powersailors. You're a luxury yachtsman! Yes you are too!! So tell the truth now big guy - isn't it true that Bobby 'dusted' you in his little sailboat coming back from Catalina one time and now you just got to try to get even with him by bugging him on this board (?)! Either that or all the X and M's in So. Cal. have been dusting you out there for a long time, and you're just sick and tired of it and would just hate to see more powersailors upgrading with 90's - eh?! Now that could be it too. We got you pegged - big guy! Kindest Regards, JonBill
You Yours - I was Just Joking
So you own 3 boats now? If you're going to race the Naples Sabot is the thing to do. That looks like a lot of fun and affordable too. Did you build your own Thunderbird? And why would anybody put a DF50 on an "M"? Just living good in SE Texas! JonBill
So you own 3 boats now? If you're going to race the Naples Sabot is the thing to do. That looks like a lot of fun and affordable too. Did you build your own Thunderbird? And why would anybody put a DF50 on an "M"? Just living good in SE Texas! JonBill
You Yours - Suzuki DF50 = 243lbs
You Yours, Lets see now about that weight thing messing up the 'sailing performance' that you been going on and on about. I think you said "The balance of any small craft can be offset by ballast placed in critical areas to balance the boat and keep it trimmed on its best lines." So true, so ture. But in this case I think you were confusing your Sabot with your "M" on this point. Let's see what I mean. ((TLDI90=315lbs) (-) (DF50=243lbs)) = 72lbs. 72lbs = about an 11 or 12 year old kid. Except the CG on the outboard is say 2'-3' lower on the craft from where the average 11 or 12 year old kid would sit. So lets revise that down to having the affect of a 7 or 8 year old kid. Now on the Sabot that's a significant affect on sailing performance but not on the "M". Lets be intellectually honest here and let the 'jargon' have a rest. Now lets talk about the power aspect of the "M". Why restrict the powerboat pleasure side of this dual purpose craft? The 'M' has no coast guard restriction on the engine size due to capacity HP rating - because it was designed to take it, but MAC doesn't want the liability so only recommends the 50. But then to use that logic as a reason to underpower it with a 50 hp and say it's due to sailing performance reasons and then using the logic that any larger engine would affect sailing performance, when that affect is negligible? Why? I'll tell you why - because Bobby's been 'dusting' you when you both are under power out there in sunny California - that's why! Let's be truthful here! P-L-E-A-S-E!!! Kindest Regards, JonBill
You Yours, Lets see now about that weight thing messing up the 'sailing performance' that you been going on and on about. I think you said "The balance of any small craft can be offset by ballast placed in critical areas to balance the boat and keep it trimmed on its best lines." So true, so ture. But in this case I think you were confusing your Sabot with your "M" on this point. Let's see what I mean. ((TLDI90=315lbs) (-) (DF50=243lbs)) = 72lbs. 72lbs = about an 11 or 12 year old kid. Except the CG on the outboard is say 2'-3' lower on the craft from where the average 11 or 12 year old kid would sit. So lets revise that down to having the affect of a 7 or 8 year old kid. Now on the Sabot that's a significant affect on sailing performance but not on the "M". Lets be intellectually honest here and let the 'jargon' have a rest. Now lets talk about the power aspect of the "M". Why restrict the powerboat pleasure side of this dual purpose craft? The 'M' has no coast guard restriction on the engine size due to capacity HP rating - because it was designed to take it, but MAC doesn't want the liability so only recommends the 50. But then to use that logic as a reason to underpower it with a 50 hp and say it's due to sailing performance reasons and then using the logic that any larger engine would affect sailing performance, when that affect is negligible? Why? I'll tell you why - because Bobby's been 'dusting' you when you both are under power out there in sunny California - that's why! Let's be truthful here! P-L-E-A-S-E!!! Kindest Regards, JonBill
Fairy Tales Can Come True?
JonBill Fairy Tales Can Come True? Nice Blog, but the “Truth Be Told”, b.t. and I were leaving, There was considerable wind, My choice of sail was to go with the Jib and Full Main when I cleared the island enough to pick up the fresh breeze. Being passed by b.t. on his way to the next pounding over the chop has not influenced my opinion, but he was Much Faster under Power than I under Sail. Anyone can Throttle Down, I prefer to use the “Iron Genny” when time is of the essence or there is so little wind to fill my sailing enjoyment. (I don’t like a “Bobbing Contest” (No offense b.t., as you’re my favorite palindrome) any more than b.t likes a channel crossing too rough. If “Pegged” is what you call this “Fairy Tale” (Hold that Gay Guy Bonding Term “Fairy Tail”) You’ve Got Me! JonBill~~Ya Pegged Tatter Salad! PS My apology to b.t. as I made the story up as JonBill made his. Thanks Lads JonBill I have an old another very aged runabout in need of loving restoration, but yes I have three now. The Thunderbird was a long and costly restoration from two original builders and owners. A skilled craftsman built the Hull and construction materials, and the Teak Cabin sides make a wood lover smile. The Wood spar and chromed bronze was a labor of love and money, plus polishing the massive stainless pieces on the Spars and deck. White Oak Toe rails and a beautifully shaped oak tiller combine with Mahogany and Iron wood to match with the White oak bright work in the lightened interior design. We removed deck and cabin and completely refinished the boat with Epoxy and Glass, Finishing with the Linear Polyurethane on the White hull and deck, clear UV on the interior and exterior bright work and spars, and custom made polycarbonate bronze tinted windows. Three years of dedicated weekends and off work time. I picked up the Sabot, also a real woody all the way, and restored it for my daughter with its bike trailer and lightweight little outboard. What we do for the love of family and boats? Thunderbird upgraded with blueprinted keel and Hi-Profile Rudder approved for the class, plus all Harken rigging, including a long cross-cockpit windward sheeting traveler set-up to die for. Anderson SS self-tailing winch on the Custom Designed Teak combing mounts. Top of House winch for the Triple sheet clutches on both sides of the coach roof plus many cleats of various types to go with the custom turning blocks to bring all lines and halyards aft. Actually since you asked: The Suzuki DF50 Award Winning (Check it out) http://suzukimarine.com/faqs/faqs.jsp?faqNum=320 http://www.suzuki-marine.co.uk/motors/df50.php Advanced 3 cylinder outboard has the most engine for the Mac Powersailor after the lightweight 2 strokes no longer in production. The light 235lbs including the propeller makes it only a few pounds heavier than one of the Past light weight Honda older design Carbureted engine. The Computer controlled Sequential Fuel Injection has been a first at this size for several years now and when combined with the 4 valve per cylinder dual overhead cam, roller chain driven for long, high speed operation provides the proven potential for all day peak 7000RPM operation with out exceeding working limits. Most Outboard engines operate at a much lower capability in the range of 5500RPM not having this advance engine design. Even the Suzuki 70 with 4 cylinder 2 valve per cylinder single overhead cam fuel injected is a heavy weight performer at 355lbs with propeller is only marginally faster with a small incremental gain in speed for the massive size and weight of this heavier/bigger engine. I note that some owners have set the benchmark for size with the 430lb 140HP Behemoth marking the zenith or pinnacle of “Bigger is Better” exuberant enthusiasm. Everyone considers the largest of engines when making his purchase of the Mac, and I tip my hat to those who see the balance of this craft we call a Powersailor. Some need only 25, or 40 or less to satisfy their needs, and those wanting to simulate some type of water skiing make attempts with larger engines, thought futile at best. The DF50 offers the best choice for balanced performance as referenced by MacGregor’s professional factory representatives, after of coarse the light 150lb 2 strokes carbureted oil mix outboard engines of earlier times. Yes, Suzuki’s advanced lightweight compact design has led the market for years, and continues with their superb products.
JonBill Fairy Tales Can Come True? Nice Blog, but the “Truth Be Told”, b.t. and I were leaving, There was considerable wind, My choice of sail was to go with the Jib and Full Main when I cleared the island enough to pick up the fresh breeze. Being passed by b.t. on his way to the next pounding over the chop has not influenced my opinion, but he was Much Faster under Power than I under Sail. Anyone can Throttle Down, I prefer to use the “Iron Genny” when time is of the essence or there is so little wind to fill my sailing enjoyment. (I don’t like a “Bobbing Contest” (No offense b.t., as you’re my favorite palindrome) any more than b.t likes a channel crossing too rough. If “Pegged” is what you call this “Fairy Tale” (Hold that Gay Guy Bonding Term “Fairy Tail”) You’ve Got Me! JonBill~~Ya Pegged Tatter Salad! PS My apology to b.t. as I made the story up as JonBill made his. Thanks Lads JonBill I have an old another very aged runabout in need of loving restoration, but yes I have three now. The Thunderbird was a long and costly restoration from two original builders and owners. A skilled craftsman built the Hull and construction materials, and the Teak Cabin sides make a wood lover smile. The Wood spar and chromed bronze was a labor of love and money, plus polishing the massive stainless pieces on the Spars and deck. White Oak Toe rails and a beautifully shaped oak tiller combine with Mahogany and Iron wood to match with the White oak bright work in the lightened interior design. We removed deck and cabin and completely refinished the boat with Epoxy and Glass, Finishing with the Linear Polyurethane on the White hull and deck, clear UV on the interior and exterior bright work and spars, and custom made polycarbonate bronze tinted windows. Three years of dedicated weekends and off work time. I picked up the Sabot, also a real woody all the way, and restored it for my daughter with its bike trailer and lightweight little outboard. What we do for the love of family and boats? Thunderbird upgraded with blueprinted keel and Hi-Profile Rudder approved for the class, plus all Harken rigging, including a long cross-cockpit windward sheeting traveler set-up to die for. Anderson SS self-tailing winch on the Custom Designed Teak combing mounts. Top of House winch for the Triple sheet clutches on both sides of the coach roof plus many cleats of various types to go with the custom turning blocks to bring all lines and halyards aft. Actually since you asked: The Suzuki DF50 Award Winning (Check it out) http://suzukimarine.com/faqs/faqs.jsp?faqNum=320 http://www.suzuki-marine.co.uk/motors/df50.php Advanced 3 cylinder outboard has the most engine for the Mac Powersailor after the lightweight 2 strokes no longer in production. The light 235lbs including the propeller makes it only a few pounds heavier than one of the Past light weight Honda older design Carbureted engine. The Computer controlled Sequential Fuel Injection has been a first at this size for several years now and when combined with the 4 valve per cylinder dual overhead cam, roller chain driven for long, high speed operation provides the proven potential for all day peak 7000RPM operation with out exceeding working limits. Most Outboard engines operate at a much lower capability in the range of 5500RPM not having this advance engine design. Even the Suzuki 70 with 4 cylinder 2 valve per cylinder single overhead cam fuel injected is a heavy weight performer at 355lbs with propeller is only marginally faster with a small incremental gain in speed for the massive size and weight of this heavier/bigger engine. I note that some owners have set the benchmark for size with the 430lb 140HP Behemoth marking the zenith or pinnacle of “Bigger is Better” exuberant enthusiasm. Everyone considers the largest of engines when making his purchase of the Mac, and I tip my hat to those who see the balance of this craft we call a Powersailor. Some need only 25, or 40 or less to satisfy their needs, and those wanting to simulate some type of water skiing make attempts with larger engines, thought futile at best. The DF50 offers the best choice for balanced performance as referenced by MacGregor’s professional factory representatives, after of coarse the light 150lb 2 strokes carbureted oil mix outboard engines of earlier times. Yes, Suzuki’s advanced lightweight compact design has led the market for years, and continues with their superb products.
Suzuki 50 - Good for any bass boat
You Yours, I'm still having trouble understanding some of that California slang and especially the gay slang. Fairy Tales to people in Texas were originally a collection of tales (childrens stories) put togehther by the 'Brothers Grimm' in the 1880's. So no need to explain that one to me, I'll just stick with the classical rendition. Of course if Bobby thinks you're calling him gay he may rock your boat with his wake the next time he goes by you standing still. And if I've missed what your driving at all together then that's ok. Now on the subject of the Suzuki 50. That is a really good motor (although the typical mnfgr's sales propaganda doesn't impress me). Busha Boatworks right down here near Matagorda, Texas sells more of them Suzuki's than just about any dealer in the nation. He puts a Suzuki on all the bassboats down here that he sells and every year wins some Suzuki sales award and gets a free trip to Hawaii. But none of the Mac dealers down here puts any Suzuki's on the 26M, as they've all converted to selling the "M" with the 90TLDI. I wonder why that is? Now you got to admit just one thing and then I'll leave you have some peace, that to add an additional 40 HP and only add 72 lbs of additional weight with it (DF50 weighs 110 kilos per Suzuki's website), and to expand the functional use of the power side of the "M" dramatically without losing any significant sailing performance; that's got to be the best thing to happen to pleasure boating since the modern day sloop rig. Come-on - and admit it - you know we're right. That's an impressive story on your Thunderbird class, she must sail smartly! And your daughter's boat is all class, I wish I had one of those Sabots too. It'd be the best sailing dinghy and fun to race! Regards, JonBill
You Yours, I'm still having trouble understanding some of that California slang and especially the gay slang. Fairy Tales to people in Texas were originally a collection of tales (childrens stories) put togehther by the 'Brothers Grimm' in the 1880's. So no need to explain that one to me, I'll just stick with the classical rendition. Of course if Bobby thinks you're calling him gay he may rock your boat with his wake the next time he goes by you standing still. And if I've missed what your driving at all together then that's ok. Now on the subject of the Suzuki 50. That is a really good motor (although the typical mnfgr's sales propaganda doesn't impress me). Busha Boatworks right down here near Matagorda, Texas sells more of them Suzuki's than just about any dealer in the nation. He puts a Suzuki on all the bassboats down here that he sells and every year wins some Suzuki sales award and gets a free trip to Hawaii. But none of the Mac dealers down here puts any Suzuki's on the 26M, as they've all converted to selling the "M" with the 90TLDI. I wonder why that is? Now you got to admit just one thing and then I'll leave you have some peace, that to add an additional 40 HP and only add 72 lbs of additional weight with it (DF50 weighs 110 kilos per Suzuki's website), and to expand the functional use of the power side of the "M" dramatically without losing any significant sailing performance; that's got to be the best thing to happen to pleasure boating since the modern day sloop rig. Come-on - and admit it - you know we're right. That's an impressive story on your Thunderbird class, she must sail smartly! And your daughter's boat is all class, I wish I had one of those Sabots too. It'd be the best sailing dinghy and fun to race! Regards, JonBill
Letting Go of the Overweight Power
JonBill Letting Go of the Overweight Power The Bird sails very nice, but the auxiliary is a real pain. If you want clean bottom, no drag sailing, you remove the engine from the motor well hatch at the rear of the cockpit (The long shaft light 55lb 8hp 2stroke performs well enough at hull speed) and store the engine in the cockpit seat locker as it has lots of room, plug the motor well opening. This makes for smooth sailing without drag. The Trailer ritual is an all day affair, so you just pay the crane operator to pull the stick, and lift the boat onto the trailer. It can be ramped on a high tide by sending the trailer down the ramp on a long cable, but the depth of the water and length of the ramp become a challenge not to exceed getting that 5’ 1500+ pounds of Cast Iron Keel placed on its support beam and the trailer jacks up with the hull forward against its rest. I cannot describe how difficult this is without swearing, its hell. This is not a trailer boat, but when it comes time to paint and work on the hull, the trailer is irreplaceable. I have to admit you make a tough case for your TLDI, and without counting fluids the new DF50 weight has been upgraded by five pounds, so I’ll take off the weight of the TLDI 90 internal oil reservoir and tank, and reserve judgment on the belt driven compressor until its merit proves problematic. I posed your conjured up formula for an overweight crewmember offsetting the benefit of my lighter outboard, and have reconsidered the wife’s value on the boat. She goes mid channel to make room for the Jon Boat, (Strike that cheap shot) Bass Boat I’ll be adding to replace her. And Here’s Your Sign: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/23/1058853132350.html
JonBill Letting Go of the Overweight Power The Bird sails very nice, but the auxiliary is a real pain. If you want clean bottom, no drag sailing, you remove the engine from the motor well hatch at the rear of the cockpit (The long shaft light 55lb 8hp 2stroke performs well enough at hull speed) and store the engine in the cockpit seat locker as it has lots of room, plug the motor well opening. This makes for smooth sailing without drag. The Trailer ritual is an all day affair, so you just pay the crane operator to pull the stick, and lift the boat onto the trailer. It can be ramped on a high tide by sending the trailer down the ramp on a long cable, but the depth of the water and length of the ramp become a challenge not to exceed getting that 5’ 1500+ pounds of Cast Iron Keel placed on its support beam and the trailer jacks up with the hull forward against its rest. I cannot describe how difficult this is without swearing, its hell. This is not a trailer boat, but when it comes time to paint and work on the hull, the trailer is irreplaceable. I have to admit you make a tough case for your TLDI, and without counting fluids the new DF50 weight has been upgraded by five pounds, so I’ll take off the weight of the TLDI 90 internal oil reservoir and tank, and reserve judgment on the belt driven compressor until its merit proves problematic. I posed your conjured up formula for an overweight crewmember offsetting the benefit of my lighter outboard, and have reconsidered the wife’s value on the boat. She goes mid channel to make room for the Jon Boat, (Strike that cheap shot) Bass Boat I’ll be adding to replace her. And Here’s Your Sign: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/23/1058853132350.html
And Here’s Your Sign:
And Here’s Your Sign: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/23/1058853132350.html
And Here’s Your Sign: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/23/1058853132350.html
Sorry, that link will not work here
Sorry, that link will not work here. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/23/1058853132350.html
Sorry, that link will not work here. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/23/1058853132350.html
Evinrude 50
All the posts related to outboard selection are great and sense I do not sell motors I would like to add my 2 cents worth of opinion. With the 26M I like to balance the boat between sailing and powering, which of course is my preference and may not be a good choice of other 26M owners. I did an extensive study of outboards and finally settled on the Evinrude 50hp 2-stroke E-Tec as it has just as much trust as a 70hp, is lighter, has less moving parts than any other motor in its class, can be self winterized, and is a very low maintenance motor. It is a 2-stroke but not like the old two strokes (manually mix the oil and gas) and exceeds all environmental emission standards. This motor really gets the boat moving and puts a smile on my face, luckily I have had the chance to experience first hand that a Mac with a 50hp Evinrude is as fast if not faster than all other 70hp motors, mainly because it is a 2-stroke and has high thrust output as compared to a 4-stoke or 3-stroke outboard. So you all might want to consider checking out the Evinrude E-Tec. To me the 26M is both a sailboat and powerboat, combining the best of both worlds.
All the posts related to outboard selection are great and sense I do not sell motors I would like to add my 2 cents worth of opinion. With the 26M I like to balance the boat between sailing and powering, which of course is my preference and may not be a good choice of other 26M owners. I did an extensive study of outboards and finally settled on the Evinrude 50hp 2-stroke E-Tec as it has just as much trust as a 70hp, is lighter, has less moving parts than any other motor in its class, can be self winterized, and is a very low maintenance motor. It is a 2-stroke but not like the old two strokes (manually mix the oil and gas) and exceeds all environmental emission standards. This motor really gets the boat moving and puts a smile on my face, luckily I have had the chance to experience first hand that a Mac with a 50hp Evinrude is as fast if not faster than all other 70hp motors, mainly because it is a 2-stroke and has high thrust output as compared to a 4-stoke or 3-stroke outboard. So you all might want to consider checking out the Evinrude E-Tec. To me the 26M is both a sailboat and powerboat, combining the best of both worlds.
POWER CHOICE
Miles Moore POWER CHOICE I can appreciate your enthusiasm for the computer controlled fuel injected 2cycle engine. The Fact that your choice is somewhat closer to what I would consider the upper limit choice for powering the MacGregor 26. There is some advantage the E tec 40, 50, 60 has over the 75, 90hp E tec engines. Both ranges use the same pistons size, piston bore and stroke and may in fact share many other attributes. The Smaller engine is approximately 80lbs lighter than the larger (Actually the 90/70 a full 1/3 larger in displacement with 3cylinder opposed to the smaller 2cylinder). Most 2cycle engines or 2 stroke as many call them develop horsepower in a much narrower band than the 4 cycle/stroke engine, which develops its power and torque over a wider power curve to reach its peak. I’m not so sure the 50 has anywhere near the punch of the 70/90hp and certainly at 52 cubic inch displacement it is far short of the 70/90’s 79 cubic inch displacement. I believe you made a good choice and commend you seeing the Potential for Sailing with equal enthusiasm as that of Motoring. Nice engine choice Miles.
Miles Moore POWER CHOICE I can appreciate your enthusiasm for the computer controlled fuel injected 2cycle engine. The Fact that your choice is somewhat closer to what I would consider the upper limit choice for powering the MacGregor 26. There is some advantage the E tec 40, 50, 60 has over the 75, 90hp E tec engines. Both ranges use the same pistons size, piston bore and stroke and may in fact share many other attributes. The Smaller engine is approximately 80lbs lighter than the larger (Actually the 90/70 a full 1/3 larger in displacement with 3cylinder opposed to the smaller 2cylinder). Most 2cycle engines or 2 stroke as many call them develop horsepower in a much narrower band than the 4 cycle/stroke engine, which develops its power and torque over a wider power curve to reach its peak. I’m not so sure the 50 has anywhere near the punch of the 70/90hp and certainly at 52 cubic inch displacement it is far short of the 70/90’s 79 cubic inch displacement. I believe you made a good choice and commend you seeing the Potential for Sailing with equal enthusiasm as that of Motoring. Nice engine choice Miles.
2 Strokes are not allowed on some lakes...
Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe Lake Tahoe is one of them, and there are others pursuing the same ban. I don't know if this includes newer models or not, but may be worth considering if you plan to travel to various lakes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe Lake Tahoe is one of them, and there are others pursuing the same ban. I don't know if this includes newer models or not, but may be worth considering if you plan to travel to various lakes.
Will be so on most lakes
Most lakes under State DNR control will eventually outlaw 2 stroke outboards. Many states have planned obsolescence laws and or plans in the works to slowly eliminate oil discharge into their waters. Grandfather clauses will be in effect for years but take a look at new outboards in the future and now. Manufacturers are well aware of this and are moving to 4 stroke models with no discharge. it's not clear if exhausts will be looked at to move from under water to in-air discharge. Emission levels will certainly be an issue in the future regardless of the engine type. Our DNR guys are talking it now. Along another vein, the muck on our lake is taboo. We can anchor, swim, get stuck in the shallows but we "cannot" move, remove or dredge or modify the lake bottom. The muck is considered "hazardous waste". Our state has a law that "anyone" depositing "fill" materials including dirt or lake bottoms are responsible for that material for 100 years wherever it ends up. So, dredging and moving to fill low land is just not going to happen. Amazing isn't it? It washes down from our farms yet we can't put it back where it came from....go figure. Sorry to digress. Steve Paul
Most lakes under State DNR control will eventually outlaw 2 stroke outboards. Many states have planned obsolescence laws and or plans in the works to slowly eliminate oil discharge into their waters. Grandfather clauses will be in effect for years but take a look at new outboards in the future and now. Manufacturers are well aware of this and are moving to 4 stroke models with no discharge. it's not clear if exhausts will be looked at to move from under water to in-air discharge. Emission levels will certainly be an issue in the future regardless of the engine type. Our DNR guys are talking it now. Along another vein, the muck on our lake is taboo. We can anchor, swim, get stuck in the shallows but we "cannot" move, remove or dredge or modify the lake bottom. The muck is considered "hazardous waste". Our state has a law that "anyone" depositing "fill" materials including dirt or lake bottoms are responsible for that material for 100 years wherever it ends up. So, dredging and moving to fill low land is just not going to happen. Amazing isn't it? It washes down from our farms yet we can't put it back where it came from....go figure. Sorry to digress. Steve Paul
Clean outboards
Jim: If you don't need to go a tad faster, you may find the 50 just fine. Our new Mac 26 will have the Evinrude E tec 50. It has the lowest emissions in its' class, and is used by the Coast Guard on Lake Tahoe. Clean 2 strokes will not be banned on inland waters. Jon C
Jim: If you don't need to go a tad faster, you may find the 50 just fine. Our new Mac 26 will have the Evinrude E tec 50. It has the lowest emissions in its' class, and is used by the Coast Guard on Lake Tahoe. Clean 2 strokes will not be banned on inland waters. Jon C
EPA and 2-Stroke Technology.
In 1998, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued new regulations governing the emissions of outboards sold in the United States. The purpose of these regulations was to reduce the pollutants created by outboard motors. In short, the EPA regulations mandate that all outboards meet certain emission requirements by the year 2006. Outboard manufacturer’s are using a variety of technologies to reduce the emissions of their outboards including 4-stroke and direct injection 2-stroke technologies. All of the Tohatsu TLDI motors (yes, even the 90HP) meets or exceeds the 2006 EPA requirements. In addition, they also exceed the 2006 CARB (California Air Resource Board) emissions requirements and have earned the CARB “2-Star” (Very Low Emissions) rating. As far as the myth of not being able to use 2-strokes after 2006, 2008 or some other date, this simply isn’t true. The EPA requirements only specify that outboards must meet certain emission restrictions. As long as the motor meets the restrictions, it doesn’t matter what technology is used. Furthermore, the EPA regulations only stipulate that models produced after 2006 meet the restrictions, but in no way do they prevent current owners of any outboard from using their motor after 2006. It is similar to how the EPA phased out the older ‘leaded’ gasoline cars…you could continue to use them, but manufacturers were not able to produce them. If you disagree with me please be specific and give me the place, date and the specific local regulation or local legislation. Because if I'm wrong then there is some misleading/false advertising going on. Wouldn't be the first time. Thanks, Jon
In 1998, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued new regulations governing the emissions of outboards sold in the United States. The purpose of these regulations was to reduce the pollutants created by outboard motors. In short, the EPA regulations mandate that all outboards meet certain emission requirements by the year 2006. Outboard manufacturer’s are using a variety of technologies to reduce the emissions of their outboards including 4-stroke and direct injection 2-stroke technologies. All of the Tohatsu TLDI motors (yes, even the 90HP) meets or exceeds the 2006 EPA requirements. In addition, they also exceed the 2006 CARB (California Air Resource Board) emissions requirements and have earned the CARB “2-Star” (Very Low Emissions) rating. As far as the myth of not being able to use 2-strokes after 2006, 2008 or some other date, this simply isn’t true. The EPA requirements only specify that outboards must meet certain emission restrictions. As long as the motor meets the restrictions, it doesn’t matter what technology is used. Furthermore, the EPA regulations only stipulate that models produced after 2006 meet the restrictions, but in no way do they prevent current owners of any outboard from using their motor after 2006. It is similar to how the EPA phased out the older ‘leaded’ gasoline cars…you could continue to use them, but manufacturers were not able to produce them. If you disagree with me please be specific and give me the place, date and the specific local regulation or local legislation. Because if I'm wrong then there is some misleading/false advertising going on. Wouldn't be the first time. Thanks, Jon
Pretty close to right
John bill I think you're pretty close to right here. I did EPA work too many years ago to mention here. What I do know is regulations are subject to change. Public pressure or cooler minds can change public policy. The EPA is attempting to do us all a favor but sometimes in their zeal they get it wrong. I fully anticipate that at sometime in the future, and I mean 15,20 50 years from now your outboard won't be anything close to what you have now. At our lake we're not even allowed to move or disturb the bottom. We can anchor but that's about it. It's the same dirt that farmers grow our food on but concentrate it in our lake it's problematic. Good post steve
John bill I think you're pretty close to right here. I did EPA work too many years ago to mention here. What I do know is regulations are subject to change. Public pressure or cooler minds can change public policy. The EPA is attempting to do us all a favor but sometimes in their zeal they get it wrong. I fully anticipate that at sometime in the future, and I mean 15,20 50 years from now your outboard won't be anything close to what you have now. At our lake we're not even allowed to move or disturb the bottom. We can anchor but that's about it. It's the same dirt that farmers grow our food on but concentrate it in our lake it's problematic. Good post steve
Just an eco minded old fart
I have a 26M with a Yam 50 4 stoke, I didn't want speed, but I wanted 'quite' and economy. I get reliability thrown in. Yes I would have had the Evinrude etec as it is everything to someone who wants some speed and economy and it is low maintenance. But when I cast off at 06.00 from the marina people appreciate me slipping out quietly!
I have a 26M with a Yam 50 4 stoke, I didn't want speed, but I wanted 'quite' and economy. I get reliability thrown in. Yes I would have had the Evinrude etec as it is everything to someone who wants some speed and economy and it is low maintenance. But when I cast off at 06.00 from the marina people appreciate me slipping out quietly!
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