It's that time again, and I'm thinking of treating my seasonal affective disorder by replacing my 2000 410 with either new 44 DS or 45 CC. Never sailed a center cockpit, but the aft cabin in 45 CC is incredible. Thoughts from out there?
44 vs 45 CC
- Thread starter Steve Feinsilver
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Hi Steve, we've had a P42 for five years now and..
it was the aft cabin layout that sold the admiral. I wanted a 41.5, but I'm glad the admiral made the right choice. I like the better visibility and cockpit space of the CC. The sun deck over that aft cabin is nice, you're higher off the water and you have a complete walk-around main deck. Below decks the main propulsion compartment contains the main engine, genset that sits on a shelf above it, house and starter battery banks, inverter/charger, easy access to the steering system, etc. Really like the overall layout, but that aft cabin is a killer. Terry
it was the aft cabin layout that sold the admiral. I wanted a 41.5, but I'm glad the admiral made the right choice. I like the better visibility and cockpit space of the CC. The sun deck over that aft cabin is nice, you're higher off the water and you have a complete walk-around main deck. Below decks the main propulsion compartment contains the main engine, genset that sits on a shelf above it, house and starter battery banks, inverter/charger, easy access to the steering system, etc. Really like the overall layout, but that aft cabin is a killer. Terry
H45
I have looked at the 45cc, too rich for me but nice to look. Yes the aft cabin is great but found that the forward cabin was lacking, liked the combination of the two cabins on the 44 better. CC are great and feel very secure but its quite a climb from the dock at the stern to get up and over into the cockpit. If you are boarding from the side its not to bad. I have a H41 just a bit smaller vertion of the 44 ( my opinion) Have fun shopping,as you know its not the boat but the toys you need/want on it that is the biggest challeng. Tony
I have looked at the 45cc, too rich for me but nice to look. Yes the aft cabin is great but found that the forward cabin was lacking, liked the combination of the two cabins on the 44 better. CC are great and feel very secure but its quite a climb from the dock at the stern to get up and over into the cockpit. If you are boarding from the side its not to bad. I have a H41 just a bit smaller vertion of the 44 ( my opinion) Have fun shopping,as you know its not the boat but the toys you need/want on it that is the biggest challeng. Tony
44 Vs 45
Steve We looked at both the 45 CC and 44 Aft Cockpit. True that the aft stateroom in the 45 was fantastic but folks we know said that you really do not use the deck space aft of the cockpit. Most of the time people stay in the cockpit or forward. You tend to give up the deck space. The other problem at least for us was that the stairs down to the cabin was too steep for the dog to get down. We ended up with the 44AC with the center line bed in the master stateroom. Not quite as much room as the 45 but certainly comfortable.
Steve We looked at both the 45 CC and 44 Aft Cockpit. True that the aft stateroom in the 45 was fantastic but folks we know said that you really do not use the deck space aft of the cockpit. Most of the time people stay in the cockpit or forward. You tend to give up the deck space. The other problem at least for us was that the stairs down to the cabin was too steep for the dog to get down. We ended up with the 44AC with the center line bed in the master stateroom. Not quite as much room as the 45 but certainly comfortable.
Love the CC
Hi Steve - I've lived on a Passage 450 and sailed it quite a bit for the past 3 years and give it high marks. Contrary to what Mark has heard I find that I use the area behind the cockpit quite a bit. Women LOVE to lie there when it's sunny, My niece, nephews and their friends like sleeping there, and when my friends and I dive from the boat or are getting our gear together for a dinghy dive it makes a great staging area. When I have the boat loaded up for a day sail a few couples generally cozy up back there as well. The aft cabin is fantastic - not much more to say on that. The interior lighting is lacking a bit and in the earlier models the cabinet in the forward head makes the sink awfully tough to use, although it's easy to swap out. I'm not sure how the shower is set up on the 44, but the completely separate shower/tub setup on the CC is tough to beat. My 2 biggest complaint about the boat are the difficulty in accessing a few key engine components, like the starter and impeller, and the 120v refrigeration on the earlier models. See if you can rent each of the models for a weekend before making your choice. A day and a night spent aboard should open your eyes to the plusses and minuses of each. Enjoy the search!
Hi Steve - I've lived on a Passage 450 and sailed it quite a bit for the past 3 years and give it high marks. Contrary to what Mark has heard I find that I use the area behind the cockpit quite a bit. Women LOVE to lie there when it's sunny, My niece, nephews and their friends like sleeping there, and when my friends and I dive from the boat or are getting our gear together for a dinghy dive it makes a great staging area. When I have the boat loaded up for a day sail a few couples generally cozy up back there as well. The aft cabin is fantastic - not much more to say on that. The interior lighting is lacking a bit and in the earlier models the cabinet in the forward head makes the sink awfully tough to use, although it's easy to swap out. I'm not sure how the shower is set up on the 44, but the completely separate shower/tub setup on the CC is tough to beat. My 2 biggest complaint about the boat are the difficulty in accessing a few key engine components, like the starter and impeller, and the 120v refrigeration on the earlier models. See if you can rent each of the models for a weekend before making your choice. A day and a night spent aboard should open your eyes to the plusses and minuses of each. Enjoy the search!
looking up
Never sailed on a CC but am interested in the layout. One thing occured to me...is looking up to check on the set of the main literally a bigger pain in the neck? You are sitting directly under it, so it's a 90d look up instead of a 45d look from the back of the boat.
Never sailed on a CC but am interested in the layout. One thing occured to me...is looking up to check on the set of the main literally a bigger pain in the neck? You are sitting directly under it, so it's a 90d look up instead of a 45d look from the back of the boat.
45 Center Cockpit
Steve, We purchased a new 2006 Hunter 45 Center Cockpit last year. Prior to that we owned a Whitby 42' Center Cockpit for 17 years. We did consider the Hunter 44 aft ccockpit w/wo the deck salon. However the 45 CC won out in the end. The aft cabin is great, and since one will spend more time on the hook, that actually crusing, it was a big factor in our decision, plus the fact that we had owned a CC before. As you will see by the other replys it's a matter of what YOU like, and how and where you plan to sail. Best of luck with your new boat. Jeff
Steve, We purchased a new 2006 Hunter 45 Center Cockpit last year. Prior to that we owned a Whitby 42' Center Cockpit for 17 years. We did consider the Hunter 44 aft ccockpit w/wo the deck salon. However the 45 CC won out in the end. The aft cabin is great, and since one will spend more time on the hook, that actually crusing, it was a big factor in our decision, plus the fact that we had owned a CC before. As you will see by the other replys it's a matter of what YOU like, and how and where you plan to sail. Best of luck with your new boat. Jeff
Steve
I'm a CC guy (a 420) for all the reasons Jim elaborated. (IMHO) the 456 is the best cruising boat Huunter has built to date. It's replacement (the 45) is actually smaller, and while very nice, (again IMHO) its a lesser boat. For (extended) CRUISING, (ok, once again, IMHO) CC's are more comfortable to live aboard and to sail than aft cockpit boats... even if they MAY be a half kt. slower under sail then their aft cockpit counterparts. (Which really doesn't matter since we're usually motor sailing). But as Jeff said ... "it's a matter of what YOU like". Now... if Hunter will just design and build a CC version of the new 49... that might just be the boat the beat the 456 !! ..... (you know, IMHO) ! !
I'm a CC guy (a 420) for all the reasons Jim elaborated. (IMHO) the 456 is the best cruising boat Huunter has built to date. It's replacement (the 45) is actually smaller, and while very nice, (again IMHO) its a lesser boat. For (extended) CRUISING, (ok, once again, IMHO) CC's are more comfortable to live aboard and to sail than aft cockpit boats... even if they MAY be a half kt. slower under sail then their aft cockpit counterparts. (Which really doesn't matter since we're usually motor sailing). But as Jeff said ... "it's a matter of what YOU like". Now... if Hunter will just design and build a CC version of the new 49... that might just be the boat the beat the 456 !! ..... (you know, IMHO) ! !
to further complicate things...
My wife noted that the 420 had a nicer aft cabin than the 45CC, and in fact, we just looked at the two together and she's right. The 420 has two nice wooden dressers, where the 45 CC has more sitting space. Since we don't entertain much in our bedroom generally (we're pretty boring), I'd take the dressers. So it turns out that our local dealer has a new 2005 420 to sell us that is about 80K less than the new 45CC with the same stuff. What do you all think? (And thanks for all your comments- this is a nice way to pass a winter's eve)
My wife noted that the 420 had a nicer aft cabin than the 45CC, and in fact, we just looked at the two together and she's right. The 420 has two nice wooden dressers, where the 45 CC has more sitting space. Since we don't entertain much in our bedroom generally (we're pretty boring), I'd take the dressers. So it turns out that our local dealer has a new 2005 420 to sell us that is about 80K less than the new 45CC with the same stuff. What do you all think? (And thanks for all your comments- this is a nice way to pass a winter's eve)
W E L L . . .
Oh course, as you'd expect, I'm a bit biased; BUT after looking at the new 45, (here we go again, IMHO) a 420 (and even an older 42) is almost as good a boat (even if 2 (or 1) feet shorter)... and you can buy LOTS of extra stuff to put on that 2005 420 for $80K ! ! and still have lots left over for the cruising kitty ! ! The only boat Hunter has made or now makes that I would have instead of my 420 is a nicely equipped 456. I don't think you'all will ever be unhappy with the decision to buy the 420 instead of the 45 ( IMHO. ha ha )
Oh course, as you'd expect, I'm a bit biased; BUT after looking at the new 45, (here we go again, IMHO) a 420 (and even an older 42) is almost as good a boat (even if 2 (or 1) feet shorter)... and you can buy LOTS of extra stuff to put on that 2005 420 for $80K ! ! and still have lots left over for the cruising kitty ! ! The only boat Hunter has made or now makes that I would have instead of my 420 is a nicely equipped 456. I don't think you'all will ever be unhappy with the decision to buy the 420 instead of the 45 ( IMHO. ha ha )
also -- the enclosure
We have a 2003 420 and there is one comment about these CCs no one has mentioned. With the Hunter CC you can put in a full cockpit enclouse by dropping plastic all around the bimini. It isn't the prettiest sight but its well worth it. Nothing like being at anchor on a rainly day sitting in your cockpit nice and dry. It gives you more usable space under these conditions than a aft cockpit. If you are motoring in foul whether again it will keep you nice and dry. Trying to sail with the plastic down is more of a problem.
We have a 2003 420 and there is one comment about these CCs no one has mentioned. With the Hunter CC you can put in a full cockpit enclouse by dropping plastic all around the bimini. It isn't the prettiest sight but its well worth it. Nothing like being at anchor on a rainly day sitting in your cockpit nice and dry. It gives you more usable space under these conditions than a aft cockpit. If you are motoring in foul whether again it will keep you nice and dry. Trying to sail with the plastic down is more of a problem.
YES, Pete
is SOO right. I sail mine with panals down when the weather dictates and up when conditions are nice... no problem. Oh, and no need for foul weather gear! About 15 years ago, I helped crew on a Mason 44 in a 'Carribbean 1500' rally/race. Wonderful, well built, aft cockpit, boat, but only had a dodger. Out in the elements, on the open ocean for 11 days, in some pretty nasty weather at times. Sorta like sitting in the back of an open pickup truck (in your wet foul weather gear) driving across the country (without stopping, 24/7) at 7 mph in November; except add salt spray and alot more rockin & rollin. Gimmie my full enclosure ! ! I crew for friends in their fast aft cockpit sailboats, and its great (except when there's no wind and the sun is beating down on you); but even they admit that their boats are not comfortable to cruise and live on... Two diffferent worlds, both great, but both best enjoyed on different types of sailboats ...... IMHO
is SOO right. I sail mine with panals down when the weather dictates and up when conditions are nice... no problem. Oh, and no need for foul weather gear! About 15 years ago, I helped crew on a Mason 44 in a 'Carribbean 1500' rally/race. Wonderful, well built, aft cockpit, boat, but only had a dodger. Out in the elements, on the open ocean for 11 days, in some pretty nasty weather at times. Sorta like sitting in the back of an open pickup truck (in your wet foul weather gear) driving across the country (without stopping, 24/7) at 7 mph in November; except add salt spray and alot more rockin & rollin. Gimmie my full enclosure ! ! I crew for friends in their fast aft cockpit sailboats, and its great (except when there's no wind and the sun is beating down on you); but even they admit that their boats are not comfortable to cruise and live on... Two diffferent worlds, both great, but both best enjoyed on different types of sailboats ...... IMHO
Give me a 456!
I am a 456 owner and I believe there is no better boat for the money. I think it is far superior to the new 45CC. Unlike previous post, we spend almost all of our time on the aft deck area, and seldom go forward. This is not an option on the 45CC. I suggest a newer 456 well equiped is a much better buy than a 45CC. IMHO. Dave Robinson S/V Quiet Wings Hunter Passage 456
I am a 456 owner and I believe there is no better boat for the money. I think it is far superior to the new 45CC. Unlike previous post, we spend almost all of our time on the aft deck area, and seldom go forward. This is not an option on the 45CC. I suggest a newer 456 well equiped is a much better buy than a 45CC. IMHO. Dave Robinson S/V Quiet Wings Hunter Passage 456
Happy Wife, Happy Life
Steve..I've owned my 45CC for a year and it meets my wife's and my needs perfectly. I had Hunter make a 3 piece aft deck cushion that adds 18 sq feet of louging, sunning, sleeping, guest seating...middle section lifts up if I need to get to the hatch. Having sailed aft cockpits for years, I was skeptical, but leased a Jeanneau 43DS and gave in to my friend's rec who owns a 2003 456 to check out the "new" 45CC...we were sold the second we saw the aft cabin. When we are not exploring the Chesapeake, we use the boat as our weekend "house on the water" in our marina, or as I call it "my floating Winnebago". It's a joy to sail, with a commanding view from the cockpit...my wife appreciates being drier than in the aft cockpits. Happy wife, happy life. Surprisingly fast and nimble, and the fractional sail plan is easy to handle single- handed. I had North sails come up with a great dodger and bimini combo and connecting piece which looks and works much better than the cheesy bimini seen on Hunter's web. Best investment was the bowthruster to counteract the increased windage. My friend wishes he installed one. Feel free to contact me.
Steve..I've owned my 45CC for a year and it meets my wife's and my needs perfectly. I had Hunter make a 3 piece aft deck cushion that adds 18 sq feet of louging, sunning, sleeping, guest seating...middle section lifts up if I need to get to the hatch. Having sailed aft cockpits for years, I was skeptical, but leased a Jeanneau 43DS and gave in to my friend's rec who owns a 2003 456 to check out the "new" 45CC...we were sold the second we saw the aft cabin. When we are not exploring the Chesapeake, we use the boat as our weekend "house on the water" in our marina, or as I call it "my floating Winnebago". It's a joy to sail, with a commanding view from the cockpit...my wife appreciates being drier than in the aft cockpits. Happy wife, happy life. Surprisingly fast and nimble, and the fractional sail plan is easy to handle single- handed. I had North sails come up with a great dodger and bimini combo and connecting piece which looks and works much better than the cheesy bimini seen on Hunter's web. Best investment was the bowthruster to counteract the increased windage. My friend wishes he installed one. Feel free to contact me.
Mast height
Because it has a mast around 60 feet instead of over 63 feet, I'd go with a 44. Although we have several friends who navigate the Atlantic ICW with the 63+ foot sticks, I am so much more comfortable with feet between my wind transducer than inches under the so-called 65 foot bridges that I think the 44 is the hands down choice. Of course it depends on how you plan to use your boat and what you are comfortable with. I am also amazed that in the 14 responses by Hunter owners there was not one comment about how well either model performs under sail.
Because it has a mast around 60 feet instead of over 63 feet, I'd go with a 44. Although we have several friends who navigate the Atlantic ICW with the 63+ foot sticks, I am so much more comfortable with feet between my wind transducer than inches under the so-called 65 foot bridges that I think the 44 is the hands down choice. Of course it depends on how you plan to use your boat and what you are comfortable with. I am also amazed that in the 14 responses by Hunter owners there was not one comment about how well either model performs under sail.
Marbella
We lost our H456 to Katrina in Lake Pontchartrain. We'll buy another CC, either a used 456 or a new 45CC. The sailing was very good and the living accomadations wonderful. I used to love to sit in the cockpit with the full enclosure down on a sunny winter day with a cup of hot coffee in the morning and watch the harbor come to life. Lighting could have been better, I had an access panel cut in the tub for easy engine access and lots of other minor stuff done. But it's a lot of boat for the money. Good hunting.
We lost our H456 to Katrina in Lake Pontchartrain. We'll buy another CC, either a used 456 or a new 45CC. The sailing was very good and the living accomadations wonderful. I used to love to sit in the cockpit with the full enclosure down on a sunny winter day with a cup of hot coffee in the morning and watch the harbor come to life. Lighting could have been better, I had an access panel cut in the tub for easy engine access and lots of other minor stuff done. But it's a lot of boat for the money. Good hunting.
2 questions
Regarding the 450CC and 456... 1. The jib sheets are led over mast stays and the ones I've seen are fraying the sheets. Seems like a lot of wear on the sheets and additional effort from the friction. Are there fixes for this? 2. The cockpit pedistal is VERY tall. You can't sit down and helm the boat, the instruments totally block your view forward. What the heck is with that design? Thanks
Regarding the 450CC and 456... 1. The jib sheets are led over mast stays and the ones I've seen are fraying the sheets. Seems like a lot of wear on the sheets and additional effort from the friction. Are there fixes for this? 2. The cockpit pedistal is VERY tall. You can't sit down and helm the boat, the instruments totally block your view forward. What the heck is with that design? Thanks
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