OK....two-foot itis (plus.!!) has struck and we're looking at moving up from our H340. The two boats currently having our interest are the H410 and the 420 Passage. Question is..the extra foot in LOA notwithstanding, what are the big advantages/disadvantages in center cockpit versus the traditional aft cockpit.???? And overall what are the particular merits of either boat.????? Intended use would be extended Great Lakes coastal cruising by a moderately experienced middle-aged couple. I'd like to hear from owners of both models.
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Bryce
410/420
Frank, We own a 410 and I looked at a 420 at Mystic a couple of weeks ago. The 410 and 420 have the same hull, so if there's a LOA difference its only in the bow rollers or the way its speced. I'm an aft cockpit fan, because of the positive cockpit drainage. Heel doesn't seem as severe in the 410 as it would seem in a 420. You aren't nearly as high above the waterline in the 410. I like the full head height aft stateroom in the 420. The 420 cockpit seems more difficult to get out of to go forward. My thoughts Bryce S/V Spellbinder H410
Frank, We own a 410 and I looked at a 420 at Mystic a couple of weeks ago. The 410 and 420 have the same hull, so if there's a LOA difference its only in the bow rollers or the way its speced. I'm an aft cockpit fan, because of the positive cockpit drainage. Heel doesn't seem as severe in the 410 as it would seem in a 420. You aren't nearly as high above the waterline in the 410. I like the full head height aft stateroom in the 420. The 420 cockpit seems more difficult to get out of to go forward. My thoughts Bryce S/V Spellbinder H410
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Bill Jones
Center cocpit
I was helping move a center cockpit 65 footer custom design and was shocked at the amount of spray we received in the cockpit with light winds and seas less than 1 foot. Not a Hunter but is one concern of center cockpits.
I was helping move a center cockpit 65 footer custom design and was shocked at the amount of spray we received in the cockpit with light winds and seas less than 1 foot. Not a Hunter but is one concern of center cockpits.
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Bob Knott
410/420
I'be been on Bryce's 410 Spellbinder and it's beautiful. I went on the 420 at Sailing Speicalties during the Hunter rendezvous and didn't like it at all. Pink Corian Counter tops PLEASE :-( Anyway the 410 having an aft cockpit would be more comfortable under sail, and the 420 would be more comfortable at the dock. Hummmmmm 410 wins in my book. Just my 2 cents. Bob Knott H380 S.V Serenity
I'be been on Bryce's 410 Spellbinder and it's beautiful. I went on the 420 at Sailing Speicalties during the Hunter rendezvous and didn't like it at all. Pink Corian Counter tops PLEASE :-( Anyway the 410 having an aft cockpit would be more comfortable under sail, and the 420 would be more comfortable at the dock. Hummmmmm 410 wins in my book. Just my 2 cents. Bob Knott H380 S.V Serenity
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Henry Rozanski
Passage 42 a Peach
I own a 1996 Passage 42 and love it. My last boat was a Endeavour 33 and I wanted a real bedroom to sleep, read, and relax in. I'm 6'2" and don't want to sleep in a tunnel. The center cockpit is massive - room for lots of sprawl and/or friends. Anyone taking spray that far back in the cockpit is going to get it in a rear cockpit also. I can tell you I get compliment shouts everytime I take her out. p.s. - I don't like the new Passage 42's. The rear cabin is too big and boxey. Go for a used boat and save $50k. Good luck!!!!
I own a 1996 Passage 42 and love it. My last boat was a Endeavour 33 and I wanted a real bedroom to sleep, read, and relax in. I'm 6'2" and don't want to sleep in a tunnel. The center cockpit is massive - room for lots of sprawl and/or friends. Anyone taking spray that far back in the cockpit is going to get it in a rear cockpit also. I can tell you I get compliment shouts everytime I take her out. p.s. - I don't like the new Passage 42's. The rear cabin is too big and boxey. Go for a used boat and save $50k. Good luck!!!!
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Buck Harrison
410 v. 420
I have a 2001 P420. LOVE IT. 410 and 420 have same hull, rigging, engine, and almost all other equipment... 420 is same length as 410 (just as 450 is same as 460)... Spray comment... rediculous... certainly not a problem (even if I didn't have a full enclosure). 410 may be slightly faster up wind... if you intend to race/ weekend sail I think it would be preferable. For extended cruising, I think the 420 is much more live-aboardable... and considering that when you are cruising, you will probably be motoring 60-70 percent of the time to get to where you need to get to... the sailing issue is overblown..... (no pun intended). Go to the boat shows.... take a careful look at both of them.... it really depends on what you want to do w/ the boat.
I have a 2001 P420. LOVE IT. 410 and 420 have same hull, rigging, engine, and almost all other equipment... 420 is same length as 410 (just as 450 is same as 460)... Spray comment... rediculous... certainly not a problem (even if I didn't have a full enclosure). 410 may be slightly faster up wind... if you intend to race/ weekend sail I think it would be preferable. For extended cruising, I think the 420 is much more live-aboardable... and considering that when you are cruising, you will probably be motoring 60-70 percent of the time to get to where you need to get to... the sailing issue is overblown..... (no pun intended). Go to the boat shows.... take a careful look at both of them.... it really depends on what you want to do w/ the boat.
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Konrad Weinstock
Ease of resale
I think most would agree that both models are attractive for different reasons. My observation has been that in the Great Lakes area, re-selling a center cockpit model is more difficult. I don't know if this is a factor for you. I think it has more to do with the cruising ground than any quality differences. My choice would be the 410. I own a 2000 H340 and have had 2footitis before...
I think most would agree that both models are attractive for different reasons. My observation has been that in the Great Lakes area, re-selling a center cockpit model is more difficult. I don't know if this is a factor for you. I think it has more to do with the cruising ground than any quality differences. My choice would be the 410. I own a 2000 H340 and have had 2footitis before...
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Jim Trammell
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Bruce Hill
From Racine WI
We own a 1997 Passage 42 in Racine. If you have seen GailForce on the water, that would be us. Have owned aft cockpits before, this is my first center. I don't know why, but I prefer sailing the aft cockpit models...my Irwin Citation 38, buddie's Morris 38, Beneteau 47 (also in Racine), and various charter boats. It just seems that the boat drives better. However, I MUCH prefer spending time at the dock, at anchor on the P42. Very comfortable. Additionally, the boat sails very well, easy to drive, easy for a couple to handle in Lake Micihgan, very forgiving. This is a great boat for what you want to do. Extremely comfortable crossing the lake, fun to sail to just play around in. It is a great rendition of a floating motorhome. Notes: The cockpit is a bit small for more than 4 people. Layout of controls on my 97 is poor leaving little uninterrupted space to sit...VHF, Autohelm, engine controls. Also, low backrest gets bothersome about halfway to Grand Haven, but hey, you can always get up and walk around! Orrder an innerspring mattress from Bob Walters in Cleveland (216) 661-1009. That was the only major fix-it we had. Anchor rode is a problem on P42, won't come in easily, but hey, who needs an anchor in Lake Michgan? If the boat does not have an electric HAlyard winch, plan to buy one. It's a great sailplan but damn near kills my poor wife raising it! The boat is perfect fo a middle aged couple (us/you) to cruise Lake Michigan. You will love it. As note, we are now going to "kick it up a notch" and are moving our boat to San Francisco/San Rafael. It's just too nice of a boat to sit frozen in the yard for 5 months. If you want to know more, or see our boat in Racine, feel free to e-mail me at bhill@telephia.com
We own a 1997 Passage 42 in Racine. If you have seen GailForce on the water, that would be us. Have owned aft cockpits before, this is my first center. I don't know why, but I prefer sailing the aft cockpit models...my Irwin Citation 38, buddie's Morris 38, Beneteau 47 (also in Racine), and various charter boats. It just seems that the boat drives better. However, I MUCH prefer spending time at the dock, at anchor on the P42. Very comfortable. Additionally, the boat sails very well, easy to drive, easy for a couple to handle in Lake Micihgan, very forgiving. This is a great boat for what you want to do. Extremely comfortable crossing the lake, fun to sail to just play around in. It is a great rendition of a floating motorhome. Notes: The cockpit is a bit small for more than 4 people. Layout of controls on my 97 is poor leaving little uninterrupted space to sit...VHF, Autohelm, engine controls. Also, low backrest gets bothersome about halfway to Grand Haven, but hey, you can always get up and walk around! Orrder an innerspring mattress from Bob Walters in Cleveland (216) 661-1009. That was the only major fix-it we had. Anchor rode is a problem on P42, won't come in easily, but hey, who needs an anchor in Lake Michgan? If the boat does not have an electric HAlyard winch, plan to buy one. It's a great sailplan but damn near kills my poor wife raising it! The boat is perfect fo a middle aged couple (us/you) to cruise Lake Michigan. You will love it. As note, we are now going to "kick it up a notch" and are moving our boat to San Francisco/San Rafael. It's just too nice of a boat to sit frozen in the yard for 5 months. If you want to know more, or see our boat in Racine, feel free to e-mail me at bhill@telephia.com
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Bob Bunsey
410 from Lake Erie Islands
Frank, In 1999, I looked at the 420 and the 410. Although I always had aft-cockpit boats, I still was willing to check out the center cockpit. Bottom line, the 420 felt too boxy to me - inside and out. For safety, I liked the easy access to the stern and the transom lockers of the 410. Since the helm seat flips backward and down to make a step to the scoop stern, I could quickly move to get fenders or emergency equipment faster out of the transom lockers when I was at the wheel of the aft cockpit. I usually sail dual-handed so if I ever had to rescue my crew or vice versa, the situation would be less stressful because the aft cockpit allows me to be at the wheel, radio and instruments while I am only one step away from the stern pickup point at water level. Beyond that, the aft arch made for a great fully enclosed aft cockpit with dodger, glass windows up to the bimini, bimini, side panels, and stern panels. We can sail in any weather comfortably with the full enclosure, and she looks very attractive with all her canvas. When at dockside, the full enclosure is like a screened-in back porch which is perfect for entertaining. I would miss these comforts on a center cockpit model. If you want, you can see her at my website at www.bluemoonsailing.com. If you can't see both models side by side, then I would suggest taking detailed pictures of them individually and studying them for pros and cons. I'm in your age group and my wife is almost there. The 410 is a safe boat for us and is truly a pleasure to sail. Now, if only the refigeration would work... Best Regards, Bob Bunsey s/v Blue Moon
Frank, In 1999, I looked at the 420 and the 410. Although I always had aft-cockpit boats, I still was willing to check out the center cockpit. Bottom line, the 420 felt too boxy to me - inside and out. For safety, I liked the easy access to the stern and the transom lockers of the 410. Since the helm seat flips backward and down to make a step to the scoop stern, I could quickly move to get fenders or emergency equipment faster out of the transom lockers when I was at the wheel of the aft cockpit. I usually sail dual-handed so if I ever had to rescue my crew or vice versa, the situation would be less stressful because the aft cockpit allows me to be at the wheel, radio and instruments while I am only one step away from the stern pickup point at water level. Beyond that, the aft arch made for a great fully enclosed aft cockpit with dodger, glass windows up to the bimini, bimini, side panels, and stern panels. We can sail in any weather comfortably with the full enclosure, and she looks very attractive with all her canvas. When at dockside, the full enclosure is like a screened-in back porch which is perfect for entertaining. I would miss these comforts on a center cockpit model. If you want, you can see her at my website at www.bluemoonsailing.com. If you can't see both models side by side, then I would suggest taking detailed pictures of them individually and studying them for pros and cons. I'm in your age group and my wife is almost there. The 410 is a safe boat for us and is truly a pleasure to sail. Now, if only the refigeration would work... Best Regards, Bob Bunsey s/v Blue Moon
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