40' ish Good Enough For World Travel?

[Honeyman]

Franklin

For someone who gets sea sick outside the protected waters of "Clear Lake", you seem to have an awful lot of opinions. Made that 2 week trip to Cancun and back lately? Based on your last big weekend, you may need to learn to sail without an engine yourself.

 

[Stu Jackson]

If it's only length that counts

count me out.

 

[Franklin]

Concerned sailor

First of all dumbass, I don't sail in Clear Lake because it's too shallow. Second of all, I've been out into the gulf quite a bit and only got sick once. Sure, it's something I need to find a remidy for, but that's my personal problem...much like your personal problem of a habit of attacking people hiding behind a fake name.

 

[Franklin]

Lin and Larry

Just wanted to point out that I'm not knocking L&L. They are GREAT sailors. In fact, that's just the point. They got almost a half million miles under their belt. They don't make the mistakes we do. They are not the ones to model yourself after.Put it like this. If one wants to do "world travel" then I assume they will be crossing the Atlantic. Possibly go to Hawaii. Lets take the Panama to Hawaii leg. On a boat with a 32' LWL, passage software predicts 30 days of sailing straight through. Now lets say you have to run the engine 2 hours a day to charge the batteries because we all want GPS, Radar, Re-frig.... That's a gallon or more a day at a very low RPM....30 gallons just to charge the batteries. That leaves only 1 gallon for other stuff.What if it took longer then 30 days? What if the wind died and you had to motor? What if you got hit by a gale on the noise and you wanted to drop sails and motor though it? Modern blue water boat designers know this and try to put large tanks in.Water...I believe a person is suppose to drink a gallon of water a day. I know I drink about that much when I work in an AC building. Say you have two people out for 30 days. That's a minimum of 60 gallons that you just drink. What if the trip turns into 40 days? Now your looking at 80 gallons just to drink. What about washing cloths, dishes, yourself? What about cooking water?

 

[tom]

Water leaks

I wouldn't want all of my water in one tank!!! My pearson has two tanks with a third optional for the bow. But the two tanks are linked. We had a leak and all of the water in both tanks went into the bilge and overboard via the bilge pump. No problem for us as we were tied up at the dock at the time. But two weeks out in the atlantic it would pose a problem. Heck in the outer islands of the Bahamas it would be a problem. The same with contamination of a single water source. Right now we use the tanks for washing water and have small containers of water for drinking. If we ever get to go cruising we will probably have several containers of water stored throughout the boat. The containers can be used for transporting water in the dinghy if needed and the loss of one or a few shouldn't be a problem.  As to fuel ... carrying a large amount of fuel shouldn't be a requirement for a "sailboat". The ability to motor 2-300 miles should be sufficent for a "sailboat" if you are in to motoring a lot a trawler makes a lot more sense than a sailboat. Some friends sailed from Corpus Christi to Panama city without an engine. they had friends tow them out of harbor and other friends tow them the final 3 miles into Watson's Bayou. It was a different experience without a engine as they had to sit for days with little or no wind. But with solar panels and plenty of food and water they seemed to have had a generally good time "sailing". As much as I dislike the thought of sitting becalmed for a few days I dislike the thought of motoring for days even less. We had to motor about 520 miles recently from Mobile to Athens,Alabama.. Up the Tennessee -Tombigbee waterway and Tennessee river. It sucked!!!! Well at least compared to sailing from Panama City to Mobile. Unless it was a life and death situation I'd never motor that far when out in open water. I'd gladly sail around the world if I ever get the chance but wouldn't condsider motoring around the world in a small boat. That constant diesel sound gets old pretty quick.

 

[Ross]

Franklin, you are presuming a large load

of electronic and mechanical equipment. Also if you need to use 1 gallon of fuel to charge the battery you should get a separate genset. I "can" all of the food that I use on Bietzpadlin. Fresh carrots, onions and potatoes will keep for a month apples and oranges are good for 2 or 3 weeks. Dry food, pasta, flour,corn meal, nuts, raisins, will keep for months, unless you don't plan to really cook on a voyage you need to be more concerned with your supply of cooking fuel. Radar is not much needed once you clear the coast. GPS needs to be turned on once or twice a day for a navigational fix. The last time I checked water comsumption was recommended as 8 - 8 ounce glasses per day but that also includes water obtained from cooked food( soup). A small manual watermaker will keep you from dying from thirst. "Storm Tactics by lyn and Larry Pardey" will be more use in an ocean storm than an engine. Reading "Heavy Weather Sailing by Adlard Coles" will also be of great value. Water can be carried in containers other than built in tanks.

 

[Franklin]

Water

Tom: Good points. I do keep an emergency water supply on board but never thought about getting a leak. Ross: Ever use one of those emergency water makers? I haven't, but the specs say you have to pump for two hours to get 8 ounces. That's a lot of pumping.Sure...it's good to have a gen-set...and I have one, but most don't. It's also good to have solar and a wind generator which could cut down on the fuel use. There are also ways to get around the water shortage too as has been said, but your totally missing the point. If your going to buy a boat for world travel, then buy one designed for it. If you already have a boat and want to find a way to make it work, like me, then by all means...there are ways to do so.Personally, I'm fighting the issue of having a heavy boat/LWL that has a low SA/D ratio that rides smooth but needs motor sailing over a light boat/LWL that has a high SA/D ration that rides rough but with a lot less motor sailing. It's a tough decision. I've seen some heavy boat/LWL what has a medium SA/D ration like some Island Packets but the price is an issue and can it be single handled may be an issue. So yes, this topic is something that I've been studying for a while for myself.

 

[Napa Ed]

40 might be a little small *pop

how about 287 feet? tacks in 1.5 MINUTES*!

 

[Franklin]

Mirabella V vs Maltese Falcon

I'd like to see them race

 

[Drew]

I love this place

Beats "Cheers" every time.I have never sailed in the ocean. Lakes, rivers, bays, never the ocean. However, the gallon per-person per-day rule of thumb includes washing yourself and the dishes. Only a marine on foot patrol at noon in Iraq wearing body armor needs a gallon a day.

 

[Stu Jackson]

John Vigor has written a neat little book

called 20 Boats to Take You Anywhere, or somethign like that. Many smaller than 40 ft.

 

[Old Salt]

I laugh at all these armchair World Voyagers LOL

One of the funniest was comparing a Caliber to a Hunter LMFAO. R U FOR REAL *pop. Thats like comparing a Chevy (geo?) with a Hummer. Yeah they'll both get you to the corner store, but when it gets nasty out the Hummer will take much more abuse. Can't even imagine how beat up the Hunter will look after a year or so of world cruising as compared to the Caliber that will still be pretty solidThe second funniest is comparing LOA vs. LWL for a boat going world cruising. *o ?? This boat is NOT for wednesday night beer can racing ? Having your whole boat be the LWL means that you don't have any reserve boyancy on the "ends" which is a good thing for a real cruising boat that you load down with supply's. I guess L&L BCC with very small LWL vs LOA is a bad boat to cruise the world in. LOL, thats so foolish I can tell you for a fact there are lots more people sailing around the world in these boats than a H376.I just can't anyone very serious in discussions about world vayaging when they own a H376 yet so quickly dismisses a Pacific Seacraft 37 *sry. Its humorous that one says that he "fan of the births" (sic) when I wonder if he knows what a "pilot" berth means or if he has every needed lee cloths to get a nights sleep. I bet he wants a full double bunk spanning the whole aft cabin for sleeping at sea. LOL It seems that reading the boat specs like sail area and displacement is the be-all and end-all of what makes a good world voyager.Its funny that you talk about needing so much fuel and then mention Island Packets. They are one of the worst sailing boats unless you have constant winds. Ask anyone that has really gone cruising in one. Ask yacht designers. Ask Bob Perry. Sure they are luxurious. And that is why you find them all over the Caribbean motoring from one anchorage to another. Typically bought by yuppies loaded with cash and the dream of "sailing off into the sunset" Only to realize 14 months down the road that the "cruising" wasn't for them. Thats why you see so many good deals on 2-3 year old Island Packets in southern FloridaI think Tom from "Bham" said it best" The choice is kinda like a road trip. Would you rather drive cross country in a 45' motor home a sports car or a 4 wheel drive truck with a camper shell??? All would have advantages and disadvantages"

 

[John]

Towed In

Ross, Larry did say that but He and Lin have not sailed into "Every port in the World" when they were here in Hilo, Hawaii two years ago. They were " Assisted In" aka "Towed In" A good Cruising boat should have a motor if for safety reasons only. I just bought a Down East 38 Cutter rigged.It is slow but I ain't in a hurry and is set up below as a "real sea boat" comfortable seaberths for getting topside in a hurry and lots and lots of storage space.

 

[John]

Down east 38

Here is example od a 38 foot Down East Mine going to need alot more till it looks like this!

 

[George in Nanaimo]

John

It's well known among cruisers that they often are towed into port.

 

[Franklin]

Old Salt

If your going to quote me, then quote me right. I never said that a H376 is designed for world travel. The only thing she has going for herself is that she can sail in any kind of wind that I would ever hope to be in. If you don't think so, what makes you more informed about the H376 then me? Have you sailed one? Do you own one?I know my boat has lots of weaknesses and that's why I'm not talking about my boat. I'm talking about these others that are "blue water" boats. Now a Lyle Hess design has a long LWL for a reason and I like that...it makes the boat faster and gives more room for storage. I think if I were to choose from any that we've talked about would be the Bristol.As for births...a cruiser isn't always at sea. If one is going to live on the boat for years, one wants a comfortable bed with a little room. Maybe that just me. When I'm out at sea I either sleep in the mid birth or in the cockpit. When I'm docked I sleep in the aft cabin.As far as the island Packets being slow...I've heard that but I haven't sailed one, but they have more sail then the boat your touting for the same displacement so I would bet it can at least keep up.

 

[Ross]

Franklin, the water maker in west marine is

rated for 1.2 gallons per hour of hand pumping. That means a glass of water in five minutes.

 

[Franklin]

Old Salt

"Having your whole boat be the LWL means that you don't have any reserve boyancy on the "ends" which is a good thing for a real cruising boat that you load down with supply's."Your wrong here. Say we have boat A that is 20,000 lbs and has a LWL of 32' and boat B that weights the same but a LWL of 28'. Boat A can hold more weight without raising the water line. Boat A will have a higher hull speed. Boat A will have more storage space. Boat B will have a nicer ride. BTW: I added approx 1,500 lbs to my boat when I moved on board and the water line didn't budge (I was actually curious about that so I marked it).Some say a faster boat is safer then a heavy boat. You may not out run a storm, but you may make your destination much faster and reduce the chances of being in that storm, which is why I want a fast boat. The problem is, if it's a light boat, it will be a rougher ride and now that I've decide (decided after I bought my boat) that I'm going around the world, that I need to decide if I can handle it in this boat. I know the boat can handle it. I just don't know if I can handle it. I may need a smoother riding boat. I have 4 years to find that one out. One thing is for sure, if I do trade in, I'll be trading in for something with large tanks, lots of sail area, and very strong supports for the mast. It will also have a protected rudder and a modified full keel. It will also have an open transome because I want the water to leave the cockpit as fast as it comes in.So you pick your boat and I'll pick mine but don't go spitting out false facts and mis-quoting me.

 

[Joe]

Hey franklin

In your rage you missed Old Salt's reference to your spelling of "Berths". It was quite funny to see it repeated in your response to him. Keep an open mind and your sense of humor.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Oil and water

Oil is for getting in and out of tight situations (weather, port etc). To use it just to charge the batteries and cool the reefer is kinda violating one of the golden rules of "be self sufficient". Perhaps one of those wind generators would extend your fuel tank range?Water falls from the sky if I remember right. I believe it is even fresh water. With the sails up a few minutes after the rain starts the bird poo is all gone and you have buckets and buckets of fresh water. You just need a funnel to get it into the tank. "Self Sufficient" sailors even think about building a "rain catcher" for use while at anchor. OBTW you will be at anchor about 90% of the time so the ocean voyage part needs to be "sized" to fit. Sooooo I'm in my 30th day of anchor at "Roosa Beach" my wind/solar is taking care of 90% of the electricity so I've only had to run the engine twice so far and the rain catcher just topped up the water tank last night. Dinner is crawling along the bottom and I just have to go fetch it. The real constraint is, as it always is, we have run out of sprits/beer. Guess I need to build a still and start making my own.The ocean trip between the long anchors is the easy part provided you don't do dumb things like sail into hurricanes. I believe there is even a term for this. Can you say weather routing? It is not so much about the size of the boat as it is the size of the sailor(s).