FOR OWNERS OF THE HUNTER 386, 410, 420, 456 AND 466 WITH ROLLER FURLING MAINSAILS: UK Sailmakers has been informed of some failures of the webbing loops at the head and tack of roller furling mainsails for the above mentioned models of Hunter Yachts. We would like to invite the owners of these models purchased within the last two years to bring or ship their roller mainsails to their nearest UK Sailmakers loft for inspection and repair, if necessary. The inspection (and repair if necessary) will be free, however, shipping to and from the loft will be at the owner's expense. The location of the nearest UK loft can be found on the UK Sailmakers website at http://www.uksailmakers.com or contact UK International by email at UKInternational@uksailmakers.com. UK Sailmakers cautions owners of roller furling mains that webbing loops, particularly at the head of the sail, are subject to wear and chafe and should be checked regularly.
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Well, as the shipping and insurance costs of...
...such large sails could be quite high, I would think that reasonable inspection and repair costs at a LOCAL loft should be allowed. But, I am not the boss. alan
...such large sails could be quite high, I would think that reasonable inspection and repair costs at a LOCAL loft should be allowed. But, I am not the boss. alan
Two Years
Why is the inspection only going to be limited to sails only 2 years old. If it is a problem they should be inspecting all of them???
Why is the inspection only going to be limited to sails only 2 years old. If it is a problem they should be inspecting all of them???
Warranty?
Wayne: They are probably going to repair them under their warranty for free (probably 2 years). I suppose that anyone else will just need to pay for the repair. Makes sense to me!
Wayne: They are probably going to repair them under their warranty for free (probably 2 years). I suppose that anyone else will just need to pay for the repair. Makes sense to me!
roller furling main repair
Seems to me that either UK or Hunter should pick up all costs, not just the repair-FTC rules cover intended use in warranties, and it seems that the webs are clearly not up to snuff as shipped by Hunter- and I agree that the 2 year limit is probably null and void if it's a latent defect that may require a certain degree of stress to show up. How do you think they'd like the publicity of all of their roller furl/UK owners filing a class action suit? or how about the potential liability if a sail fails and results in serious injury now that they know there's a problem? I'm not a lawyer but I'm sure we can find one....
Seems to me that either UK or Hunter should pick up all costs, not just the repair-FTC rules cover intended use in warranties, and it seems that the webs are clearly not up to snuff as shipped by Hunter- and I agree that the 2 year limit is probably null and void if it's a latent defect that may require a certain degree of stress to show up. How do you think they'd like the publicity of all of their roller furl/UK owners filing a class action suit? or how about the potential liability if a sail fails and results in serious injury now that they know there's a problem? I'm not a lawyer but I'm sure we can find one....
Standard Terms.
You may or may not know that most every warranty is worded that the owner is responsible for shipping and handling for items covered by a warranty. You are probably looking at $60-75 for shipping each way. Check on Fedex Ground too. For anyone within driving distance to a UK loft, the freight is free! This sounds like an OKAY deal for something that could be coming out of your own pocket to the tune of $2500-3500.
You may or may not know that most every warranty is worded that the owner is responsible for shipping and handling for items covered by a warranty. You are probably looking at $60-75 for shipping each way. Check on Fedex Ground too. For anyone within driving distance to a UK loft, the freight is free! This sounds like an OKAY deal for something that could be coming out of your own pocket to the tune of $2500-3500.
Whoa....
The recent statement from UK Sailmakers is a direct result of the problems first posted in the "Big Boats" forum by Warren Feldstein on 9/2. Replacement of the inadiquate loops by any (local) sail loft is about a $100.00 job; probable less than the cost (not to mention the inconvience) of shipping the sail to a UK loft. Since the cost is relatively small, I agree that UK should simply reimburse those of us who are not near a UK loft for the cost of the repair. Following my post of 9/12, several of us who had experienced the problem got a call from Hunter Marine. We were informed that Charlie Ulmar was interested in speaking to those of us who had had problems. Sooo... I called and personally spoke to Mr Ulmar on 9/13. He wanted to know the circumstances surrounding the failure, etc. He informed me that they had changed the size and nature of the loops on all roller-furling mains sometime after my Hull # was delivered, and that the sails with "inadiquate" (MY word) loops would be taken care of. He asked if I would send him the actual (ripped apart) webbing that had been removed form my sail. (I did). As for reinbursing me for the repair... I am still waiting to hear form UK... As to Carol's question of whether 380's are included, I would suggest that you check your sail... It isn't difficult to lower the main and check the (head) loop... if it looks frayed and/or pitifully small for the job... have it replaced. Buck... s/v L'Attitude
The recent statement from UK Sailmakers is a direct result of the problems first posted in the "Big Boats" forum by Warren Feldstein on 9/2. Replacement of the inadiquate loops by any (local) sail loft is about a $100.00 job; probable less than the cost (not to mention the inconvience) of shipping the sail to a UK loft. Since the cost is relatively small, I agree that UK should simply reimburse those of us who are not near a UK loft for the cost of the repair. Following my post of 9/12, several of us who had experienced the problem got a call from Hunter Marine. We were informed that Charlie Ulmar was interested in speaking to those of us who had had problems. Sooo... I called and personally spoke to Mr Ulmar on 9/13. He wanted to know the circumstances surrounding the failure, etc. He informed me that they had changed the size and nature of the loops on all roller-furling mains sometime after my Hull # was delivered, and that the sails with "inadiquate" (MY word) loops would be taken care of. He asked if I would send him the actual (ripped apart) webbing that had been removed form my sail. (I did). As for reinbursing me for the repair... I am still waiting to hear form UK... As to Carol's question of whether 380's are included, I would suggest that you check your sail... It isn't difficult to lower the main and check the (head) loop... if it looks frayed and/or pitifully small for the job... have it replaced. Buck... s/v L'Attitude
Here's another issue to think about
I recently read about the torn head on a local 460. My interest was peeked because the tack on our 410 tore loose during the first few days of ownership. We have a local UK store here in Newport Beach. The rep came out, took the sail and quickly repaired it. In my situation, the tack tore because it was improperly attached to the in-mast furler. This needs to be done at a right angle. Mine wasn't. With this recent activity in torn heads, I again had the UK guy come out to the boat. The head passed inspection. He told me the following: 1. NEVER attempt to tighten the luff while the main has a load on it. Always head up. 2. Be very careful using a power winch to tighten the halyard. The winches are so powerful, that they can rip, tear and generally wreck havoc if you're not careful. I was also told that the loops, albeit they look too small for their intended jobs, are made of spectra fabric which is about the strongest material available for this type of application. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
I recently read about the torn head on a local 460. My interest was peeked because the tack on our 410 tore loose during the first few days of ownership. We have a local UK store here in Newport Beach. The rep came out, took the sail and quickly repaired it. In my situation, the tack tore because it was improperly attached to the in-mast furler. This needs to be done at a right angle. Mine wasn't. With this recent activity in torn heads, I again had the UK guy come out to the boat. The head passed inspection. He told me the following: 1. NEVER attempt to tighten the luff while the main has a load on it. Always head up. 2. Be very careful using a power winch to tighten the halyard. The winches are so powerful, that they can rip, tear and generally wreck havoc if you're not careful. I was also told that the loops, albeit they look too small for their intended jobs, are made of spectra fabric which is about the strongest material available for this type of application. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
460 failure
As I posted several weeks ago, my head loop ripped out on a 2000 model 460 which has been lightly sailed. I have never attempted to tighten the luff under load. I do not have an electric winch. The main halyard is locked in in the rope clutch and never adjusted. The loop in my sail was not adequately made to withstand the loads placed on the sail. Fortunately, the sail loft in Newport Beach took the sail off, fixed it at their loft and replaced it the next day at a total cost of $100. According to the rep. at Uk,I shouldn't have any further problems.
As I posted several weeks ago, my head loop ripped out on a 2000 model 460 which has been lightly sailed. I have never attempted to tighten the luff under load. I do not have an electric winch. The main halyard is locked in in the rope clutch and never adjusted. The loop in my sail was not adequately made to withstand the loads placed on the sail. Fortunately, the sail loft in Newport Beach took the sail off, fixed it at their loft and replaced it the next day at a total cost of $100. According to the rep. at Uk,I shouldn't have any further problems.
roller furling warranty words
Steve, I haven't read my copy of the UK warranty-it's on board- but there is often a huge difference between what the lawyer words say and what the company's marketing people insist on-if large numbers of vocal owners are unhappy, sales will suffer-and what about Hunter? If the sail design is defective we shouldn't have to pay a penny for it to be remedied-maybe Hunter should offer to refund our money for the sails and let us go to the sailmaker of our choice.....
Steve, I haven't read my copy of the UK warranty-it's on board- but there is often a huge difference between what the lawyer words say and what the company's marketing people insist on-if large numbers of vocal owners are unhappy, sales will suffer-and what about Hunter? If the sail design is defective we shouldn't have to pay a penny for it to be remedied-maybe Hunter should offer to refund our money for the sails and let us go to the sailmaker of our choice.....
alternatives
You may find that it's not only cheaper, given the shipping costs, to take the sail to your local loft and pay for the repair yourself, but that you'll also get better work done that way. When I first got my furling main I took it to UK twice to get it recut because of poor initial construction. Uk's response, in short, was that the sail was a disaster but that since it was an OEM sail there was little they could do to fix it. After two recuts failed to solve the problem, I took the main to Pineapple Sails, who were able to improve the sail significantly at very little cost.......... What shocked me about the whole experience was the attitude UK took toward a sail with their label on it. They didn't think of it as a "real" UK sail since it had been manufactured in Hong Kong of inferior dacron. They were somewhat suprized that I expected an OEM sail coming with a production boat to actually have proper shape. As far as they were concerned, these were "delivery sails" designed to get me to the nearest UK loft where I could purchase a real sail.
You may find that it's not only cheaper, given the shipping costs, to take the sail to your local loft and pay for the repair yourself, but that you'll also get better work done that way. When I first got my furling main I took it to UK twice to get it recut because of poor initial construction. Uk's response, in short, was that the sail was a disaster but that since it was an OEM sail there was little they could do to fix it. After two recuts failed to solve the problem, I took the main to Pineapple Sails, who were able to improve the sail significantly at very little cost.......... What shocked me about the whole experience was the attitude UK took toward a sail with their label on it. They didn't think of it as a "real" UK sail since it had been manufactured in Hong Kong of inferior dacron. They were somewhat suprized that I expected an OEM sail coming with a production boat to actually have proper shape. As far as they were concerned, these were "delivery sails" designed to get me to the nearest UK loft where I could purchase a real sail.
Chuck
Chuck: I am not arguing with you, just stating facts. Most any time that you purchase something you are responsible for getting it to a repair facility/depot and picking it up or having it returned. Sometimes they pick up the tab for the return freight. I guess the point now is that the repair is not very costly and even if they are going to help you out with one way transportation, you may be better off taking it to a local loft and paying for the repair yourself. Then you can negoiate with UK and see if they will pay (or not). Regardless of what I am telling you Hunter and UK are going to do what they do. Good luck. PS: Sending the sail off will probably have you doing without a sail for several weeks too.
Chuck: I am not arguing with you, just stating facts. Most any time that you purchase something you are responsible for getting it to a repair facility/depot and picking it up or having it returned. Sometimes they pick up the tab for the return freight. I guess the point now is that the repair is not very costly and even if they are going to help you out with one way transportation, you may be better off taking it to a local loft and paying for the repair yourself. Then you can negoiate with UK and see if they will pay (or not). Regardless of what I am telling you Hunter and UK are going to do what they do. Good luck. PS: Sending the sail off will probably have you doing without a sail for several weeks too.
Steve
I agree! when I check the main I may bring it to my local sailmaker to have it reinforced if needed, rather than ship it where ever.
I agree! when I check the main I may bring it to my local sailmaker to have it reinforced if needed, rather than ship it where ever.
uk's attitude and Hunter survey
Hunter is conducting a new owner survey, and one area is satisfaction with the sails-we should let them know, because even if UK doesn't care, I assume Hunter does-Doyle makes their small boat sails, and would probably be happy to make the large boat sails, too!
Hunter is conducting a new owner survey, and one area is satisfaction with the sails-we should let them know, because even if UK doesn't care, I assume Hunter does-Doyle makes their small boat sails, and would probably be happy to make the large boat sails, too!
380 RF Tack Failed in Less Than 6 Months
All The tack on my 2001 Hunter 380 RF main chaffed through at the gooseneck within 6 months of delivery. I talked at length with Hunter, UK Sails, and Selden Mast about the problem. All were interested up to the point of actually fixing the problem. Each pointed the finger at the other guy. Eventually, I took the sail to a local loft and had them replace the tack and head with spectra and an exterior UV protection. To alleviate the chafe point, they tried lengthening the length of the loop at the tack. That has worked but now, the length of the luft is at it's absolute maximum. Any stretching of the sail in future years will certainly result in sail shape problems. With this problem now highlighted publically, perhaps I can get this fixed correctly.
All The tack on my 2001 Hunter 380 RF main chaffed through at the gooseneck within 6 months of delivery. I talked at length with Hunter, UK Sails, and Selden Mast about the problem. All were interested up to the point of actually fixing the problem. Each pointed the finger at the other guy. Eventually, I took the sail to a local loft and had them replace the tack and head with spectra and an exterior UV protection. To alleviate the chafe point, they tried lengthening the length of the loop at the tack. That has worked but now, the length of the luft is at it's absolute maximum. Any stretching of the sail in future years will certainly result in sail shape problems. With this problem now highlighted publically, perhaps I can get this fixed correctly.
Same Problem with the Headsail
I forgot to add. The loop at the head of my 110% jib chafed through last month, approximately 18 months after delivery. Same material on the original sail as I had on the mainsail. Hmmmn. Again, I had the head and tack repaired properly at a local loft with spectra and a UV exterior.
I forgot to add. The loop at the head of my 110% jib chafed through last month, approximately 18 months after delivery. Same material on the original sail as I had on the mainsail. Hmmmn. Again, I had the head and tack repaired properly at a local loft with spectra and a UV exterior.
Why is this not a problem with the 356??
Since the 356 is of the same generation as alot of these boats and also use the UK sails, why isn't it targeted here as well?
Since the 356 is of the same generation as alot of these boats and also use the UK sails, why isn't it targeted here as well?
ditto headsail
Me too. I had to completely replace the clew on my jib during the first year of owning the boat. Would have to check the log to be sure, but I think it happened somewhere around six months.
Me too. I had to completely replace the clew on my jib during the first year of owning the boat. Would have to check the log to be sure, but I think it happened somewhere around six months.
2000 420
As you might expect, the top of the main failed at the worst time. After a fire drill to get it off and below, I took it to Allan UK sails in Annapolis. They couldn't have been nicer. Had both the head and tack replaced in a couple of days at no charge. Thanks UK.
As you might expect, the top of the main failed at the worst time. After a fire drill to get it off and below, I took it to Allan UK sails in Annapolis. They couldn't have been nicer. Had both the head and tack replaced in a couple of days at no charge. Thanks UK.
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