We currently own a Legend 37 (1987) and wanted to add central air to her, but we found a '94 36 vision that is in great condition with a/c already installed. We love our Legend, but I'm impressed with the space in both the cockpit and especially down below in the newer Vision. The big stayless mast is interesting to say the least. Now, our 37 Legend has a huge main, too. So I was wondering how different the Vision will be to handle compared to our Legend? Is the Vision 36 a good boat for the bucks? Why was she discontinued? Are there any pitfalls with the Vision that we should lookout for?
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Sail One first
You'll find the 37 outperforms the Vision. Compare the handicap ratings to confirm and quantify this fact. I found my old h34 walked by one trying to go up wind. Another concern I had with the Vision is reasle value. Due to the unconventional design the resale market is limited. Done right you should get more for your legend than the Vision cost to buy. That sould good until it's time to sell it. Compared to other companies both of these are good value for their intended use
You'll find the 37 outperforms the Vision. Compare the handicap ratings to confirm and quantify this fact. I found my old h34 walked by one trying to go up wind. Another concern I had with the Vision is reasle value. Due to the unconventional design the resale market is limited. Done right you should get more for your legend than the Vision cost to buy. That sould good until it's time to sell it. Compared to other companies both of these are good value for their intended use
.....and Daryl, this is confirmed by sales of...
...and Daryl, this is confirmed by sales of boats like the NonSuch, Freedom etc. They still sell at high premiums. and when you are running downwind, they out run much larger vessels. They also can be sail with a much shorter crew.
...and Daryl, this is confirmed by sales of boats like the NonSuch, Freedom etc. They still sell at high premiums. and when you are running downwind, they out run much larger vessels. They also can be sail with a much shorter crew.
Vision
Hi McCoy - Daryl has legitimate points about sailing performance, but you have to consider what you enjoy most about sailing/cruising. The Visions (available in 32 and 36) aren't known for performance, especially when sailing to weather. The stayless mast does pump in a breeze and bends off to leeward. However, the deck/cabin layout is very innovative and these boats have a ton of room and an impressive layout below. Daryl's point about resale may be valid, but let's face it: owning a sailboat is not a practical thing in the first place. If the boat grabs you, go for it. Take her for a spin and enjoy having something a little different and take advantage of its unique attributes. What's the worst that could happen? There are plenty of other boats out there to try out! See Related link to see what Bob Perry says about the Vision 36. Trevor
Hi McCoy - Daryl has legitimate points about sailing performance, but you have to consider what you enjoy most about sailing/cruising. The Visions (available in 32 and 36) aren't known for performance, especially when sailing to weather. The stayless mast does pump in a breeze and bends off to leeward. However, the deck/cabin layout is very innovative and these boats have a ton of room and an impressive layout below. Daryl's point about resale may be valid, but let's face it: owning a sailboat is not a practical thing in the first place. If the boat grabs you, go for it. Take her for a spin and enjoy having something a little different and take advantage of its unique attributes. What's the worst that could happen? There are plenty of other boats out there to try out! See Related link to see what Bob Perry says about the Vision 36. Trevor
Chartered one once.
If you are near 6ft. tall or more, you will constantly bang your head on the rack over the central island just down the companionway!!! I spent a week on that boat and could not get used to that rack. Anyway, it does get most of it's power from the large roach main and you will not benefit from larger genoas. Certainly very easy for 1-2 people to handle and the aft cabin was large, but I still think I'd prefer the 37 Legend. The single lever engine/trans. control sucked big time on the one I was on. I personally own a 35.5 Legend and wouldn't think of trading for a 36 Vision. Different strokes...
If you are near 6ft. tall or more, you will constantly bang your head on the rack over the central island just down the companionway!!! I spent a week on that boat and could not get used to that rack. Anyway, it does get most of it's power from the large roach main and you will not benefit from larger genoas. Certainly very easy for 1-2 people to handle and the aft cabin was large, but I still think I'd prefer the 37 Legend. The single lever engine/trans. control sucked big time on the one I was on. I personally own a 35.5 Legend and wouldn't think of trading for a 36 Vision. Different strokes...
Let's Put It This Way
I had a Vision 32 for nine years. I have a Legend 40.5. I would take a 36 Vision in a second. Easy to sail, quiet in a seaway, good motion, great sailing with guests, and you can do some impressive stuff with sail upgrades. Were I to design a custom boat for myself today, this would be where I'd start, and it most certainly have a free-standing rig. Rick D.
I had a Vision 32 for nine years. I have a Legend 40.5. I would take a 36 Vision in a second. Easy to sail, quiet in a seaway, good motion, great sailing with guests, and you can do some impressive stuff with sail upgrades. Were I to design a custom boat for myself today, this would be where I'd start, and it most certainly have a free-standing rig. Rick D.
Owner's response
For all practical purposes, I single hand my '93 Vision 36 while my wife sits and reads. And, in SF summer breezes, normally sail at hull speed with one reef in and under good control, albeit with some weather helm which I can alleviate by pinching, if desired. I've got two reefs but, so far, with winds/gusts up to 35-40 kts, have not been tempted. To weather, I seem to point as high as others but I need a litle more wind to get her going. In the winter, with Bay winds of only 4-6 kts, we do OK; especially well downwind as the main is simply huge. I have never experienced the "pumping" motion described elsewhere and the somewhat bendy main spills the gusts. The cockpit is spacious and below decks is simply cavernous. Under power, it backs well and the large rudder makes easing into crowded slips fairly straightforward. The free-standing mast eliminates tuning and the associated rig problems/potential failures/and standing rigging replacements/inevitable fish hooks. Having owned "traditional sloops before, I find the Vision simply hard to beat. Many of the design features incoporated into the Vision series were well ahead of other production boats. But Hunter could not sustain enough interest to continue production. As for re-sale, I also disagree: the limited number makes for fairly "rare appearances on the market and, when well-maintained, they sell quickly and at competitive prices. I, and several other Vision owners, have posted our reviews on this site. You may wish to check them out as they are pretty consistent in terms of what's good and maybe not so good.
For all practical purposes, I single hand my '93 Vision 36 while my wife sits and reads. And, in SF summer breezes, normally sail at hull speed with one reef in and under good control, albeit with some weather helm which I can alleviate by pinching, if desired. I've got two reefs but, so far, with winds/gusts up to 35-40 kts, have not been tempted. To weather, I seem to point as high as others but I need a litle more wind to get her going. In the winter, with Bay winds of only 4-6 kts, we do OK; especially well downwind as the main is simply huge. I have never experienced the "pumping" motion described elsewhere and the somewhat bendy main spills the gusts. The cockpit is spacious and below decks is simply cavernous. Under power, it backs well and the large rudder makes easing into crowded slips fairly straightforward. The free-standing mast eliminates tuning and the associated rig problems/potential failures/and standing rigging replacements/inevitable fish hooks. Having owned "traditional sloops before, I find the Vision simply hard to beat. Many of the design features incoporated into the Vision series were well ahead of other production boats. But Hunter could not sustain enough interest to continue production. As for re-sale, I also disagree: the limited number makes for fairly "rare appearances on the market and, when well-maintained, they sell quickly and at competitive prices. I, and several other Vision owners, have posted our reviews on this site. You may wish to check them out as they are pretty consistent in terms of what's good and maybe not so good.
Thanks fir everyone's in put...
All things considered,(mainly the cash outlay to upgrade our Legend 37 with a/c and a new head...although, my wife's list included a new water heater, refrigeration for the ice box, new instruments, an upgrade from cassette to cd stereo system,and add on stern seating) we are very excited about the choice to purchase the Vision 36. (Our Legend does have a brand new full batten main and Dutchman system) Mainly, she is a much newer vessel with 2 central a/c-heaters, built in stern seats and has great electronics.(The wife's wish list becomes instantly filled without going bankrupt.) We have decided we will not miss the cockpit traveler at all and since we are cruisers, not racers, things like the solar battery panel, extra room below and more cockpit storage as well as a real swim platform with storage seats and shower provide more convienience and comfort for the entire family (especialy the wife, two kids, as well as, 2 dogs) My wife really likes the island refrigerator and spacious head. (It has a separate shower in a different part of the head from the toilet) I guess we will just learn to sail her a bit differently, however, the previous owner has consistently won races with her. Her sails are basically new (less than 1 year old) and as I speak, her hull is getting compounded and waxed before we sea trial her next week.(Weather permitting) BTW, Honeyman, the Vision we have contracted for doesn't have a rack over the refrigerator so that must have been an added option. And Jim & Rick, thanks for sharing your first hand experience of owning Visions. You when you look at the reviews of Vision owners, it seems that everyone who owns on loves them and the only negatives come from outside observers. After finding the Vision,we looked seriously at buying a 2005 Hunter 36, thinking that in the long run we would be better off. However,we came away disappointed in the craftsmanship, storage and overall quality of feel. The Catalinas and Beneteaus also seemed cheapened in their late model versions. The Vision 36 weighs over 16,000 lbs, too. (all the other production boats we loked at were considerably less. So...as my wife pointed out, this Vision's hull number is #46 and I just had my 46th birthday. so it's a sign we should buy her.
Thanks again and Fair Winds to everyone!
All things considered,(mainly the cash outlay to upgrade our Legend 37 with a/c and a new head...although, my wife's list included a new water heater, refrigeration for the ice box, new instruments, an upgrade from cassette to cd stereo system,and add on stern seating) we are very excited about the choice to purchase the Vision 36. (Our Legend does have a brand new full batten main and Dutchman system) Mainly, she is a much newer vessel with 2 central a/c-heaters, built in stern seats and has great electronics.(The wife's wish list becomes instantly filled without going bankrupt.) We have decided we will not miss the cockpit traveler at all and since we are cruisers, not racers, things like the solar battery panel, extra room below and more cockpit storage as well as a real swim platform with storage seats and shower provide more convienience and comfort for the entire family (especialy the wife, two kids, as well as, 2 dogs) My wife really likes the island refrigerator and spacious head. (It has a separate shower in a different part of the head from the toilet) I guess we will just learn to sail her a bit differently, however, the previous owner has consistently won races with her. Her sails are basically new (less than 1 year old) and as I speak, her hull is getting compounded and waxed before we sea trial her next week.(Weather permitting) BTW, Honeyman, the Vision we have contracted for doesn't have a rack over the refrigerator so that must have been an added option. And Jim & Rick, thanks for sharing your first hand experience of owning Visions. You when you look at the reviews of Vision owners, it seems that everyone who owns on loves them and the only negatives come from outside observers. After finding the Vision,we looked seriously at buying a 2005 Hunter 36, thinking that in the long run we would be better off. However,we came away disappointed in the craftsmanship, storage and overall quality of feel. The Catalinas and Beneteaus also seemed cheapened in their late model versions. The Vision 36 weighs over 16,000 lbs, too. (all the other production boats we loked at were considerably less. So...as my wife pointed out, this Vision's hull number is #46 and I just had my 46th birthday. so it's a sign we should buy her.
Thanks again and Fair Winds to everyone!Thanks for everyone's in put...
All things considered,(mainly the cash outlay to upgrade our Legend 37 with a/c and a new head...although, my wife's list included a new water heater, refrigeration for the ice box, new instruments, an upgrade from cassette to cd stereo system,and add on stern seating) we are very excited about the choice to purchase the Vision 36. (Our Legend does have a brand new full batten main and Dutchman system) Mainly, she is a much newer vessel with 2 central a/c-heaters, built in stern seats and has great electronics.(The wife's wish list becomes instantly filled without going bankrupt.) We have decided we will not miss the cockpit traveler at all and since we are cruisers, not racers, things like the solar battery panel, extra room below and more cockpit storage as well as a real swim platform with storage seats and shower provide more convienience and comfort for the entire family (especialy the wife, two kids, as well as, 2 dogs) My wife really likes the island refrigerator and spacious head. (It has a separate shower in a different part of the head from the toilet) I guess we will just learn to sail her a bit differently, however, the previous owner has consistently won races with her. Her sails are basically new (less than 1 year old) and as I speak, her hull is getting compounded and waxed before we sea trial her next week.(Weather permitting) BTW, Honeyman, the Vision we have contracted for doesn't have a rack over the refrigerator so that must have been an added option. And Jim & Rick, thanks for sharing your first hand experience of owning Visions. You when you look at the reviews of Vision owners, it seems that everyone who owns on loves them and the only negatives come from outside observers. After finding the Vision,we looked seriously at buying a 2005 Hunter 36, thinking that in the long run we would be better off. However,we came away disappointed in the craftsmanship, storage and overall quality of feel. The Catalinas and Beneteaus also seemed cheapened in their late model versions. The Vision 36 weighs over 16,000 lbs, too. (all the other production boats we loked at were considerably less. So...as my wife pointed out, this Vision's hull number is #46 and I just had my 46th birthday. so it's a sign we should buy her. Thanks again and Fair Winds to everyone!
All things considered,(mainly the cash outlay to upgrade our Legend 37 with a/c and a new head...although, my wife's list included a new water heater, refrigeration for the ice box, new instruments, an upgrade from cassette to cd stereo system,and add on stern seating) we are very excited about the choice to purchase the Vision 36. (Our Legend does have a brand new full batten main and Dutchman system) Mainly, she is a much newer vessel with 2 central a/c-heaters, built in stern seats and has great electronics.(The wife's wish list becomes instantly filled without going bankrupt.) We have decided we will not miss the cockpit traveler at all and since we are cruisers, not racers, things like the solar battery panel, extra room below and more cockpit storage as well as a real swim platform with storage seats and shower provide more convienience and comfort for the entire family (especialy the wife, two kids, as well as, 2 dogs) My wife really likes the island refrigerator and spacious head. (It has a separate shower in a different part of the head from the toilet) I guess we will just learn to sail her a bit differently, however, the previous owner has consistently won races with her. Her sails are basically new (less than 1 year old) and as I speak, her hull is getting compounded and waxed before we sea trial her next week.(Weather permitting) BTW, Honeyman, the Vision we have contracted for doesn't have a rack over the refrigerator so that must have been an added option. And Jim & Rick, thanks for sharing your first hand experience of owning Visions. You when you look at the reviews of Vision owners, it seems that everyone who owns on loves them and the only negatives come from outside observers. After finding the Vision,we looked seriously at buying a 2005 Hunter 36, thinking that in the long run we would be better off. However,we came away disappointed in the craftsmanship, storage and overall quality of feel. The Catalinas and Beneteaus also seemed cheapened in their late model versions. The Vision 36 weighs over 16,000 lbs, too. (all the other production boats we loked at were considerably less. So...as my wife pointed out, this Vision's hull number is #46 and I just had my 46th birthday. so it's a sign we should buy her.
Thanks again and Fair Winds to everyone!Thanks for everyone's in put...
All things considered,(mainly the cash outlay to upgrade our Legend 37 with a/c and a new head...although, my wife's list included a new water heater, refrigeration for the ice box, new instruments, an upgrade from cassette to cd stereo system,and add on stern seating) we are very excited about the choice to purchase the Vision 36. (Although, our Legend does have a brand new full batten main and Dutchman system wich I will dearly miss) Mainly, she is a much newer vessel with 2 central a/c-heaters, built in stern seats and has great electronics.(The wife's wish list becomes instantly filled without going bankrupt.) We have decided we will not miss the cockpit traveler at all and since we are cruisers, not racers, things like the solar battery panel, extra room below and more cockpit storage as well as a real swim platform with storage seats and shower provide more convienience and comfort for the entire family (especialy the wife, two kids, as well as, 2 dogs) My wife really likes the island refrigerator and spacious head. (It has a separate shower in a different part of the head from the toilet) I guess we will just learn to sail her a bit differently, however, the previous owner has consistently won races with her. Her sails are basically new (less than 1 year old)and I can't wait to see how the electric halyard winch works) and as I speak, her hull is getting compounded and waxed before we sea trial her next week.(Weather permitting) BTW, Honeyman, the Vision we have contracted for doesn't have a rack over the refrigerator so that must have been an added option. And Jim & Rick, thanks for sharing your first hand experience of owning Visions. You when look at the reviews of Vision owners, it seems that everyone who owns one loves them. After finding the Vision,we looked seriously at buying a 2005 Hunter 36, thinking that in the long run we would be better off. However,we came away disappointed in the craftsmanship, storage and overall quality of feel. The Catalinas and Beneteaus also seemed cheapened in their late model versions. The Vision 36 weighs over 16,000 lbs, too. (all the other production boats we loked at were considerably less. So...as my wife pointed out, this Vision's hull number is #46 and I just had my 46th birthday. so it's a sign we should buy her. Thanks again and Fair Winds to everyone!
All things considered,(mainly the cash outlay to upgrade our Legend 37 with a/c and a new head...although, my wife's list included a new water heater, refrigeration for the ice box, new instruments, an upgrade from cassette to cd stereo system,and add on stern seating) we are very excited about the choice to purchase the Vision 36. (Although, our Legend does have a brand new full batten main and Dutchman system wich I will dearly miss) Mainly, she is a much newer vessel with 2 central a/c-heaters, built in stern seats and has great electronics.(The wife's wish list becomes instantly filled without going bankrupt.) We have decided we will not miss the cockpit traveler at all and since we are cruisers, not racers, things like the solar battery panel, extra room below and more cockpit storage as well as a real swim platform with storage seats and shower provide more convienience and comfort for the entire family (especialy the wife, two kids, as well as, 2 dogs) My wife really likes the island refrigerator and spacious head. (It has a separate shower in a different part of the head from the toilet) I guess we will just learn to sail her a bit differently, however, the previous owner has consistently won races with her. Her sails are basically new (less than 1 year old)and I can't wait to see how the electric halyard winch works) and as I speak, her hull is getting compounded and waxed before we sea trial her next week.(Weather permitting) BTW, Honeyman, the Vision we have contracted for doesn't have a rack over the refrigerator so that must have been an added option. And Jim & Rick, thanks for sharing your first hand experience of owning Visions. You when look at the reviews of Vision owners, it seems that everyone who owns one loves them. After finding the Vision,we looked seriously at buying a 2005 Hunter 36, thinking that in the long run we would be better off. However,we came away disappointed in the craftsmanship, storage and overall quality of feel. The Catalinas and Beneteaus also seemed cheapened in their late model versions. The Vision 36 weighs over 16,000 lbs, too. (all the other production boats we loked at were considerably less. So...as my wife pointed out, this Vision's hull number is #46 and I just had my 46th birthday. so it's a sign we should buy her.
Thanks again and Fair Winds to everyone!Sorry didn't realize that I couldn't edit a post!
I just realized my post was submitted 3 times! Sorry about that! I was just editing a typo and later decided to remove a "negative" comment that I didn't want any to take the wrong way. (I value everyone's opinions.Positive or negative) So...chalk it up to experience on this board. If there are editing options, I'd sure like to know...'cause no one's perfect! Fair Winds! McCoy
I just realized my post was submitted 3 times! Sorry about that! I was just editing a typo and later decided to remove a "negative" comment that I didn't want any to take the wrong way. (I value everyone's opinions.Positive or negative) So...chalk it up to experience on this board. If there are editing options, I'd sure like to know...'cause no one's perfect! Fair Winds! McCoy
Edit Options (been there, done that...)
Welcome aboard McCoy. Just like you, I've "been there, done that." The trick to being able to edit your post is to, before you write the post, go to the top of the page and click on "Login Now". Once you're log(ed)in then you can edit you posts. No login, no edit. Yup. Sometimes these posts look different after they've been posted. Hope this helpps . oooops, forgot to login!
Welcome aboard McCoy. Just like you, I've "been there, done that." The trick to being able to edit your post is to, before you write the post, go to the top of the page and click on "Login Now". Once you're log(ed)in then you can edit you posts. No login, no edit. Yup. Sometimes these posts look different after they've been posted. Hope this helpps . oooops, forgot to login!
Congratulations
on your new-to-you Vision 36. I think you'll find it all you thought it'd be and more. And, that high freeboard will keep your kids high and dry.
on your new-to-you Vision 36. I think you'll find it all you thought it'd be and more. And, that high freeboard will keep your kids high and dry.
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