Hi, Again-- We posted a recent inquiry about the 356 and "Blue Water" sailing. The feedback we got was fantastic. We SIGNED, here we go, the papers last week for an inventory 356 at RCR Yachts here in Rochester, NY with the following options: In-Mast Furling ICOM VHF with Helm Microphone Stereo System with Cockpit Speakers 10" TV with DVD Player Refrigeration System Cabin Window Shades 42" Wheel Upgrade Extended Traveler on Arch Windless Bimini Oven along with Std. Propane stove Anti-Fouling Bottom Paint Steel Cradle Commisioning We would love to have many opinions as to a list of (a) essentials and (b) next desired options we might add to the above. We will be cruising on Lake Ontario with many 4-5 day stints for one or two years before possible full retirement and heading south. We have really gone "overboard" financially in buying the boat in the first place so have limited funds to "invest" further. We went to a recent high-school reunion and found that 1/3 of those we knew then are dead and, perhaps another 1/3 might as well be. We would "bet the farm" that none of these people would ever dream they would end up in these ways in their mid-sixties. So, "going for broke", seems very rational even though we have not sailed a great deal. It would also seem that this thread would be a great archive for others as we imagine everyone faces that "what do we really need" question. So, apologizing for rambling on, we thank you all in advance for your help. We are very excited! Jackie and Peter
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Inverter & battery upgrade
Since you will be out for 3-4 days, you might consider having the inverter option installed. Along with this increase your battery capacity. Jim S/V Java
Since you will be out for 3-4 days, you might consider having the inverter option installed. Along with this increase your battery capacity. Jim S/V Java
My opinions only
Ratings are: 1-Essential, 2-Nice to Have, 3-Who cares In Mast Furling -2 ICOM VHF with Helm Microphone-1 Stereo System with cockpit speakers - 2 10"TV with DVD player-3 (If you want one, go to Circuit City) Refrigeration System -1 or 2 (depending on amount of time away from the dock - they're big power eaters) Cabin Windowshades -2, but you can make your own 42" wheel upgrade - 1 Extended traveler on Arch - 1 Windlass - 1 Bimini - 1 Oven with propane stove - 1 Antifouling bottom paint - 1 Steel Cradle - 3 (Jack stands work almost as well) Ask about a battery charger/inverter if you're getting refrigeration. Ask about an autopilot (useful for dropping sails when singlehanding)
Ratings are: 1-Essential, 2-Nice to Have, 3-Who cares In Mast Furling -2 ICOM VHF with Helm Microphone-1 Stereo System with cockpit speakers - 2 10"TV with DVD player-3 (If you want one, go to Circuit City) Refrigeration System -1 or 2 (depending on amount of time away from the dock - they're big power eaters) Cabin Windowshades -2, but you can make your own 42" wheel upgrade - 1 Extended traveler on Arch - 1 Windlass - 1 Bimini - 1 Oven with propane stove - 1 Antifouling bottom paint - 1 Steel Cradle - 3 (Jack stands work almost as well) Ask about a battery charger/inverter if you're getting refrigeration. Ask about an autopilot (useful for dropping sails when singlehanding)
Heater?
We have a heater and a full cockpit enclosure, so the only thing that stops us sailing in the NW is fog (and time, of course).
We have a heater and a full cockpit enclosure, so the only thing that stops us sailing in the NW is fog (and time, of course).
Great! Congrads.
I agree with everyone that an inverter/charger of generous capasity and battery upgrade for your boat is a great investment. Assume you got radar/GPS/Chartplotter/Autopilot. If not, do. Think about a PSS shaft seal if you don't already have one. Consider a feathering prop. Finally (sorta), I would think about getting a credit on the sails and having a local loft make up a good set. Items one and two are worth doing out of your own pocket if you can't throw them on the loan. Maybe the shaft seal too. The balance, only if you can throw it on the loan, and then definitely. BTW, did I mention a dodger and adding a full enclosure? An aluminum stern anchor and rode? Geesh, its wonderful spending other people's money. But, seriously, these are things people tend to do later, but the best time to really do them is right now. And, if you have a good dealer that will find you a good price and treat you fairly on the install, you'll be glad you did it up front. Rick D.
I agree with everyone that an inverter/charger of generous capasity and battery upgrade for your boat is a great investment. Assume you got radar/GPS/Chartplotter/Autopilot. If not, do. Think about a PSS shaft seal if you don't already have one. Consider a feathering prop. Finally (sorta), I would think about getting a credit on the sails and having a local loft make up a good set. Items one and two are worth doing out of your own pocket if you can't throw them on the loan. Maybe the shaft seal too. The balance, only if you can throw it on the loan, and then definitely. BTW, did I mention a dodger and adding a full enclosure? An aluminum stern anchor and rode? Geesh, its wonderful spending other people's money. But, seriously, these are things people tend to do later, but the best time to really do them is right now. And, if you have a good dealer that will find you a good price and treat you fairly on the install, you'll be glad you did it up front. Rick D.
Epoxy Barrier Coat
If the bottom paint isn't already put on I'd recommend having an epoxy barrier coat(s) put on. This will cost a bit now but will save problems later. Seems as though even new boats are still getting blisters. Find out from the dealer if any of the holes through the hull and deck have been epoxy sealed to prevent water from getting into any foam or balsa core. If you plan to use the compass then it should be accurate and sensitive. Check what influence the speakers and VHF helm mike have on the compass, both in the off and "excited" position. May want to ask a compass adjuster what he thinks about installation locations.
If the bottom paint isn't already put on I'd recommend having an epoxy barrier coat(s) put on. This will cost a bit now but will save problems later. Seems as though even new boats are still getting blisters. Find out from the dealer if any of the holes through the hull and deck have been epoxy sealed to prevent water from getting into any foam or balsa core. If you plan to use the compass then it should be accurate and sensitive. Check what influence the speakers and VHF helm mike have on the compass, both in the off and "excited" position. May want to ask a compass adjuster what he thinks about installation locations.
New 356!
Congrats! you'll love her! Rick's got a good list, if you didn't get them, gps plotter/radar and autopilot should be high on your list. The first mate really wanted a bimini, so we got one on our 356, but we skipped the dodger because it always got in the way on our 29.5, and so far we haven't regretted that decision-the 356 has so much freeboard and flare on the bow that the cockpit stays dry. even in fairly heavy conditions-you can add one later if you need to. an emergency anchor in the stern is a good idea, we carry an aluminum fortress fx-23 in the large cockpit lazarette. If you can, look into your primary anchor, and see what people in your area like. I didn't want the std danforth type, so Hunter gave me the 22lb delta fastset I preferred instead. Depending on how far offshore you're going, think about a 406 epirb as well. Happy Sailing! Chuck Wayne H356 WWW.Escape
Congrats! you'll love her! Rick's got a good list, if you didn't get them, gps plotter/radar and autopilot should be high on your list. The first mate really wanted a bimini, so we got one on our 356, but we skipped the dodger because it always got in the way on our 29.5, and so far we haven't regretted that decision-the 356 has so much freeboard and flare on the bow that the cockpit stays dry. even in fairly heavy conditions-you can add one later if you need to. an emergency anchor in the stern is a good idea, we carry an aluminum fortress fx-23 in the large cockpit lazarette. If you can, look into your primary anchor, and see what people in your area like. I didn't want the std danforth type, so Hunter gave me the 22lb delta fastset I preferred instead. Depending on how far offshore you're going, think about a 406 epirb as well. Happy Sailing! Chuck Wayne H356 WWW.Escape
The lists that have been provided so far do a pretty good job. I'm not sure I understand the inverter/charger issue as it relates to the refrigeration. We put the 2500 watt Heart Inverter charger in ours, but frankly, all that is going to do is give you some ac power for the microwave and a quicker charge once you are back at the dock. If you are out 3-5 days at a time, you want to be able to charge quickly off the engine, or a generator. Assuming that you didn't get the generator, you might better recover the lost amps by upgrading the alternator. I agree that more battery power is necessary. Our 356 delivered with 2 group 27 wet cell batteries. We gave those back to the dealer and put in two group 4d AGM's and a Group 27 AGM dedicated starter battery. We recharge with a Balmar 105 amp (something near that anyway) alternator. We combine it all with a Pathmaker combiner. We run our refrigeration, dual chartplotters, radar, autopilot at will and manage to get the amps back in nicely. Almost as fast as the 100 amp charger does back at the dock. I won't kid you, these conversions are not cheap. But you have defined activites that go beyond day sailing and if you want to do that comfortably, without stopping to plug in or run the engine excessively, it is worth consideration. Another thing to consider, if you have the skills, or feel you can develop them. The installation of the electronics and electrical upgrades are not rocket science. The process is fairly straight forward and there are many books on the right way to do things. I did virtually all of the electronics installation on our first boat (a 290). We paid for the second one because I did not have the time available, but even doing some of the easier things will give you a better understanding of your boat and how things work. There is more help on this site than you can imagine, and I've found the fellowship in sailing will provide you contact with people who will share their experience with you quite freely. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II) P.S. Hey Rick D.....you really have a full enclosure on your boat in Marina Del Rey? Gee, and I was thinking that a summer sailing the channel islands would be a nice warm alternative to up here in the bay.
Hey Daniel.. About The Quote
"The coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco." (Mark Twain) Well, that quote could apply to some of the Channel Islands too! Yes, we do have a full enclosure thanks to the PO. I'm probably too cheap to do it myself, but have two friends who added them after being on our boat. It truly adds to the enjoyment of the boat. From April to December, it stays rolled up below. The dodger is always up and the bimini most of the time. The enclosure goes up in the winter and stays up. Our mooring in Catalina is in Cat Harbor, which is the back side and usually the windward side. It is cold and breezy in the winter and spring. But, it is wonderful to sit in the cockpit, warm and comfortable. We have had the cockpit filled with people on winter rafts with the club since they could get out of the cold. And, on the 7 hour sail back to our slip in MDR, its sometimes nice to block off the windward side when its cold. When we visit the boat in the marina, it's like having another stateroom. (We go for several days at a time.) Bottom line: expensive, but if you spend days or weeks at a time on the boat... a very worthwhile addition to consider. Especially if you are old enough not to be humiliated by what younger purists think;^ Regards, Rick D. (You may have to brighten your monitor to see the enclosure.)
"The coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco." (Mark Twain) Well, that quote could apply to some of the Channel Islands too! Yes, we do have a full enclosure thanks to the PO. I'm probably too cheap to do it myself, but have two friends who added them after being on our boat. It truly adds to the enjoyment of the boat. From April to December, it stays rolled up below. The dodger is always up and the bimini most of the time. The enclosure goes up in the winter and stays up. Our mooring in Catalina is in Cat Harbor, which is the back side and usually the windward side. It is cold and breezy in the winter and spring. But, it is wonderful to sit in the cockpit, warm and comfortable. We have had the cockpit filled with people on winter rafts with the club since they could get out of the cold. And, on the 7 hour sail back to our slip in MDR, its sometimes nice to block off the windward side when its cold. When we visit the boat in the marina, it's like having another stateroom. (We go for several days at a time.) Bottom line: expensive, but if you spend days or weeks at a time on the boat... a very worthwhile addition to consider. Especially if you are old enough not to be humiliated by what younger purists think;^ Regards, Rick D. (You may have to brighten your monitor to see the enclosure.)
Attachments
Carpet
What do you folks think about indoor/outdoor carpet sections for the cabin sole? We never thought about it when we bought our boat, but I saw it in another boat and thought it was a good idea to save wear and tear on the sole. I've been considering ordering it, because It's painfull to see stuff get accidently dropped and ding up the beautiful new cabin sole :O( Like putting seat covers on your new car seats. Mac
What do you folks think about indoor/outdoor carpet sections for the cabin sole? We never thought about it when we bought our boat, but I saw it in another boat and thought it was a good idea to save wear and tear on the sole. I've been considering ordering it, because It's painfull to see stuff get accidently dropped and ding up the beautiful new cabin sole :O( Like putting seat covers on your new car seats. Mac
Sole
We have carpet sections on our sole mainly for out 90 pound golden retriever. We try and keep her nails trimmed but she still has made a few marks. Must be love.
We have carpet sections on our sole mainly for out 90 pound golden retriever. We try and keep her nails trimmed but she still has made a few marks. Must be love.
42" Wheel???
Is that smaller than the standard wheel? This is the first I've heard of that option.
Is that smaller than the standard wheel? This is the first I've heard of that option.
Great Stuff So Far
Again, you folks are awesome. The options originally listed in our post are already on the boat which was in RCR Yachts inventory! Was hoping someone would say we MUST have a Doyle APC ($2,200)and a Garmin Color GPSMAP 2010C ($2,400) to survive!!
Please continue this thread with more opinions as actual sailing experiance is obviously the best basis for deciding on anything. Rick Dinons cockpit "cabin" looks fantastic and would be wonderful for fall, Lake Ontario temperatures. Rick -- Please advise how much have you parted with to own it? (fantastic pic) The 42" wheel is a $252 upgrade and we think the standard size is 38". Ongoing Thanks Peter & Jackie
Again, you folks are awesome. The options originally listed in our post are already on the boat which was in RCR Yachts inventory! Was hoping someone would say we MUST have a Doyle APC ($2,200)and a Garmin Color GPSMAP 2010C ($2,400) to survive!!
Please continue this thread with more opinions as actual sailing experiance is obviously the best basis for deciding on anything. Rick Dinons cockpit "cabin" looks fantastic and would be wonderful for fall, Lake Ontario temperatures. Rick -- Please advise how much have you parted with to own it? (fantastic pic) The 42" wheel is a $252 upgrade and we think the standard size is 38". Ongoing Thanks Peter & Jackie
Peter & Jackie:
I didn't pay for it directly. The prior owner did. He monitors the site from time to time, so perhaps he will weigh in. Our friend with another 40.5 paid about $2800 after the dodger. Another friend with another 40.5 installed one too. Look for Henry Demolina in Long Beach CA in the owners' directory and e-mail him. Not sure how SoCal prices compare with yours, altho material itself is a sizeable chunk. Get top-quality acrylic for the windows. Rick D.
I didn't pay for it directly. The prior owner did. He monitors the site from time to time, so perhaps he will weigh in. Our friend with another 40.5 paid about $2800 after the dodger. Another friend with another 40.5 installed one too. Look for Henry Demolina in Long Beach CA in the owners' directory and e-mail him. Not sure how SoCal prices compare with yours, altho material itself is a sizeable chunk. Get top-quality acrylic for the windows. Rick D.
Doyle APC
OK, You must have a Doyle APC!! seriously, we love ours, but I'd put the nav stuff first. We had a Garmin plotter on our 29.5, but went all raymarine on the 356-color chartplotter/radar at the wheel, mono head at the nav station-the color is so good though, if I were doing it again I'd spring (stretch?) for color at both locations.The APC is a blast to sail, and I can singlehand it with the sock and the autopilot. our first longish trip, right after launch, was from Salem, MA up to Maine for a Hunter rendevous-a glorious spinnaker run up, then 2 days later pea soup all the way back-the comparison is obvious-we still would have had a great time northbound, but without the gps and radar the southbound trip would have been impossible.
OK, You must have a Doyle APC!! seriously, we love ours, but I'd put the nav stuff first. We had a Garmin plotter on our 29.5, but went all raymarine on the 356-color chartplotter/radar at the wheel, mono head at the nav station-the color is so good though, if I were doing it again I'd spring (stretch?) for color at both locations.The APC is a blast to sail, and I can singlehand it with the sock and the autopilot. our first longish trip, right after launch, was from Salem, MA up to Maine for a Hunter rendevous-a glorious spinnaker run up, then 2 days later pea soup all the way back-the comparison is obvious-we still would have had a great time northbound, but without the gps and radar the southbound trip would have been impossible.
Full enclosure
Peter and Jackie, you should sail over to Port Credit Harbour in Ontario this summer, and see Bumblebee Canvas, they made me a full enclosure for my '34 including dodger, bimini, side curtains and screens, with good quality window material for $3500 CAN.
Peter and Jackie, you should sail over to Port Credit Harbour in Ontario this summer, and see Bumblebee Canvas, they made me a full enclosure for my '34 including dodger, bimini, side curtains and screens, with good quality window material for $3500 CAN.
356 in Sodus Point
The Port Credit suggestion is a good one particularly if you time it for the Hunter rendezvous there in July. We hope to be there. There will be a second one at Sodus Bay in August. Our boat sits in the RCR showroom here at Sodus Bay, equipped as it was. At this point, all I am adding is a Raymarine wind instrument (ST 60). I am considering the barrier coat for the bottom. I would be interested in discussing the 356 with you in the future. Please feel free to e-mail me off this forum. I am listed in the owners' list for the 356 model.
The Port Credit suggestion is a good one particularly if you time it for the Hunter rendezvous there in July. We hope to be there. There will be a second one at Sodus Bay in August. Our boat sits in the RCR showroom here at Sodus Bay, equipped as it was. At this point, all I am adding is a Raymarine wind instrument (ST 60). I am considering the barrier coat for the bottom. I would be interested in discussing the 356 with you in the future. Please feel free to e-mail me off this forum. I am listed in the owners' list for the 356 model.
Barrier coat
Peter and Jackie, Congratulations on your new boat! We went through (and still are going through) the same what to add what not to add process with our 356. I am not an expert on the topic, but we opted against adding a barrier coat, following the recommendation of several people including the sales yard. Our decision was based upon the following: In this neck of the woods, the cost to have the yard paint the bottom with a barrier coat on a new boat is around $2k. While a barrier coat does not void the Hunter hull warranty, you do have to notify Hunter about it. Failure to do so *might* void the warranty. Hunter's new hull warranty last five years, if the boat blisters, it will usually happen before that time. Our old boat had blisters the second year we owned her. The yard fixed the blisters, under warranty without a problem and we were the second owners. If the hull does end up with blisters after the warranty period. A small area of blisters is fairly cheap to repair. If the hull has hundreds of blisters, you will have to strip the bottom, and can add a barrier coat at that time. A barrier coat does not guarantee that blisters won't occur Good luck and fun sailing. Paul
Peter and Jackie, Congratulations on your new boat! We went through (and still are going through) the same what to add what not to add process with our 356. I am not an expert on the topic, but we opted against adding a barrier coat, following the recommendation of several people including the sales yard. Our decision was based upon the following: In this neck of the woods, the cost to have the yard paint the bottom with a barrier coat on a new boat is around $2k. While a barrier coat does not void the Hunter hull warranty, you do have to notify Hunter about it. Failure to do so *might* void the warranty. Hunter's new hull warranty last five years, if the boat blisters, it will usually happen before that time. Our old boat had blisters the second year we owned her. The yard fixed the blisters, under warranty without a problem and we were the second owners. If the hull does end up with blisters after the warranty period. A small area of blisters is fairly cheap to repair. If the hull has hundreds of blisters, you will have to strip the bottom, and can add a barrier coat at that time. A barrier coat does not guarantee that blisters won't occur Good luck and fun sailing. Paul
No way
Paul, I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree with your opinion about a barrier coat. Your first point about the cost of coating is no good reason for not doing it. Besides it can be done by the owner to save money. But more importantly, your opinion that blistering will happen within a couple of years while under warranty, is just wishful thinking. Any time FRG is exposed to water for any period of time, it starts to absorb water. Water laying in the bilge can and does cause blistering. Bottom paint does not stop water penitration. A good multiple layer barrier coat will. It seems to me that there's some pretty important bad advise being handed out all to save a few $. Peter, I suggest that you talk to someone who knows what he's talking about. You are putting your new boat at risk without getting expert advise!
Paul, I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree with your opinion about a barrier coat. Your first point about the cost of coating is no good reason for not doing it. Besides it can be done by the owner to save money. But more importantly, your opinion that blistering will happen within a couple of years while under warranty, is just wishful thinking. Any time FRG is exposed to water for any period of time, it starts to absorb water. Water laying in the bilge can and does cause blistering. Bottom paint does not stop water penitration. A good multiple layer barrier coat will. It seems to me that there's some pretty important bad advise being handed out all to save a few $. Peter, I suggest that you talk to someone who knows what he's talking about. You are putting your new boat at risk without getting expert advise!
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