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34 Feet

Jan 22, 2008
757
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
Just read a post commenting on a 34’ Hunter and a J/105 in the same sentence. We had a blast racing last Saturday on Galveston Bay in the last Rum Race of 2020. It was the last mile or two before three J/105’s in the same 12 mile race caught and passed our 34’ Hunter 340 on the the A-sail run.

A581BD22-F976-4214-8121-D9EFE125C0E3.jpeg

This shot from my boom cam.

35B6F058-068A-4404-9F16-6B24295F8EC7.jpeg

This one from the J/105.

92D524D9-F807-4303-8810-7A703CE56D96.jpeg

This one from another J/105.

They all crossed about 5 minutes ahead of us, not sure how much later than us they started. We crossed with a Tartan 34 in our class flying an A-sail, too. His bowsprit just ahead of ours. He got second in class, we were third.
 
Jan 22, 2008
757
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
Finish line photo, the green channel marker is the left side of the line.

15846EED-2264-415A-8B1B-24B31A8A2B22.jpeg
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
The first picture is awesome!

But why did you let them drive over you??
 
Jan 22, 2008
757
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
But why did you let them drive over you??
I know, thought about it after he passed. I was having too much fun watching them, got distracted. And he was moving pretty fast and they're in a different class.
But, it would have helped my friend that crews with me in other races if had steered in front of him and tried to push him to windward, he was driving his 105 in the same race. But, he did finish 10 seconds in front of the 105 that passed close. Third photo is from his boat, you can just see him in the first photo under the 105's A-sail.
 
Jan 22, 2008
757
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
Another photo, from the Beneteau 435 that won our class, I guess I should not have let him drive over me either. But, had my hands full trying to keep the wing keel and shallow rudder going straight, you can see from the bow wave we're pushing, we are a little over hull speed. This was a lot of fun!
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Likes: Will Gilmore
Nov 1, 2017
587
Catalina 25 Tall Rig Watergate Marina, Kemah, TX
It was great to see y’all out there! Had some Furler issues, had to drop out of the race due to the strong gusts and not being able to adjust the foresail. Hope to sail with you again soon!
 
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Likes: Bill19233
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
View attachment 185428
This one from another J/105.
I love almost everything about this j105.
Tack line out the exact amount
Perfect curl on the asym luff
Main twisted perfectly
Backstay off and rig frackulated forward

Maybe a ease of the outhaul, but damn nice looking.

But the moral of the story is, they still didn't win. Good racing.
 
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Likes: Bill19233
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I know, thought about it after he passed. I was having too much fun watching them, got distracted. And he was moving pretty fast and they're in a different class.
But, it would have helped my friend that crews with me in other races if had steered in front of him and tried to push him to windward, he was driving his 105 in the same race. But, he did finish 10 seconds in front of the 105 that passed close. Third photo is from his boat, you can just see him in the first photo under the 105's A-sail.
The tactics of a pursuit race are subtly different that a straight handicap (PHRF) race.

In a PHRF race where all boat have a common start, you expect faster boats to sail away from you while you can still win (corrected). In a pursuit race, once a faster boat passes you, they are gone forever and you have lost a place. But its really hard to hold them back forever, and trying often it ends up costing BOTH of you places.

In the case of the 105, the moment a crewmember who is responsible for looking back (you HAVE one right?) notifies you of a faster boat coming up slightly to windward, drive up to get on his line, and then turn around and stare the driver until he sees you. This is the universal way to say that you are not going to let him drive over you without a fight. Often they will bear off and slip by to leeward. If they go up again, you do as well. Now it might have to get into a luffing battle this one time, but you'll now be known as a boat that you can't kick sand in the face of. #respect.

Now if you REALLY wanted to get him, at that moment of the first picture (quietly warn your crew first) turn up hard hard and yell out 'coming up ONE coming up TWO coming up THREE' if they don't get out of your way, they have broken RRS#11 (leeward boat). PROTEST. You turning turning down at this moment keeps you safe via RRS14 (avoid contact). Now they have to spin and their kite is up.
 
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Likes: Bill19233
Jan 22, 2008
757
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
Now it might have to get into a luffing battle this one time, but you'll now be known as a boat that you can't kick sand in the face of. #respect.
First leg, same race, started just in front of this faster blue boat, held him off the whole 4 mile leg. That was fun, too. Way easier upwind than downwind with a spinnaker up. This boat leads his non spin class every series, very good sailor, I like that our twists match. The whole leg was just like this, just a boat length in front him, swerving to windward every time he tried to make a move.
395D74AF-079B-46C9-88A9-976BA43A1BB8.jpeg
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
First leg, same race, started just in front of this faster blue boat, held him off the whole 4 mile leg. That was fun, too. Way easier upwind than downwind with a spinnaker up. This boat leads his non spin class every series, very good sailor, I like that our twists match.
View attachment 185446
Yep sails look good. You're close reaching and fetching a mark here right? Yea very hard to pass in that situation. Hardening up is slow, and no way he drives through your lee. And he can't tack away.
 
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Likes: Bill19233
Jan 22, 2008
757
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
Yep sails look good. You're close reaching and fetching a mark here right? Yea very hard to pass in that situation. Hardening up is slow, and no way he drives through your lee. And he can't tack away.
Yes, and yes.

On the J/105, I thought his forestay looked too slack in the third photo. And he has a lot more twist than I do, should I have more on a broad reach? To have the 16' boom sheeted out and lot's of main working, it has to be flat to keep it off the extreme swept back really long spreaders of the B&R, as much as possible, anyway. The right amount of twist is always a main sail trim consideration for me, probably worry about too much.
Three J/105's in the race, he was third, 10 seconds behind the second and a minute behind the first. But 5 minutes in front of me.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Yes, and yes.

On the J/105, I thought his forestay looked too slack in the third photo. And he has a lot more twist than I do, should I have more on a broad reach? To have the 16' boom sheeted out and lot's of main working, it has to be flat to keep it off the extreme swept back really long spreaders of the B&R, as much as possible, anyway. The right amount of twist is always a main sail trim consideration for me, probably worry about too much.
Three J/105's in the race, he was third, 10 seconds behind the second and a minute behind the first. But 5 minutes in front of me.
Regarding his forestay, he's Frackulated. Means he has eased his backstay, and pulled his jib sheets tight with the furler line locked. This tensions the forestay and that pulls that mast tip forward, and moves the CE of the kite forward. Common speed trick.

Re twist I'm going with yes. More open on top. You vang is too tight.
 
Jul 5, 2005
210
Beneteau 361 Sandusky Harbor Marina
Jack, quick question here; if a boat from another fleet is passing you, do you still work to keep that boat from passing you? The reason i ask is I always thought since we're not competing with the boat (this happens to us a lot), it's better simply to sail our race and let the overtaking boat pass us as quickly as possible. In the past, we have farted around staying in front of different fleet boats, which I think has distracted us from our actual competition.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Jack, quick question here; if a boat from another fleet is passing you, do you still work to keep that boat from passing you? The reason i ask is I always thought since we're not competing with the boat (this happens to us a lot), it's better simply to sail our race and let the overtaking boat pass us as quickly as possible. In the past, we have farted around staying in front of different fleet boats, which I think has distracted us from our actual competition.
It's a fair point.

But getting rolled is getting rolled, no matter what fleet they are in. It costs you time. Also depends on the breeze, the less there is the worse it is. I would always step up a lane, get on their line, and let them know you are not happy. Sometimes they will go down. Sometimes that will ask 'hey can I drive over you'?? If you say 'yes' then they owe you one. If not, you need to figure out what to do. Me, I'll ALWAYS take you up if you do that. Now that will cost you time in one race, but it will never happen again.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Me, I'll ALWAYS take you up if you do that. Now that will cost you time in one race, but it will never happen again.
My friend and well-known race coach Andrew Kerr like to call this being a 'tough out'

Interesting a Brit using a baseball metaphor, but that exactly what you want to be known as. Fair, sometimes overmatched, but man I will not go down without a fight.