We are relatively new to the sport of sailing and have for the first time had our 33.5 in 20+ knot winds. Up till now, the 5-10 knot winds have had little effect on the helm. A bit of weather helm was all. As the 33.5 has such a huge rudder, we have always felt very in control of the boat. That is to say we turn the wheel and the boat responds quickly and precisely. My question is.....when the wind kicks up and the water gets choppy the wheel seems almost to have no effect (close hauled, close reach)and we have to turn it quite a bit to see any effect at all and even then the control is very delayed and non-definate. Is this part of sailing in general...inherent in this particular boat? Can the feeling of control be increased in these conditions by changing some of the sail controls? Your comments are appreciated.
- Status
Did you adjust your sails?
My boat is a Hunter 33. It is difficult to control with winds exceeding 20 knots unless I reef the main and partially furl the genny. Once I have trimmed my sail to the wind conditions, she sails like a dream. Too much sail just makes your boat heel further with less control on the helm. Very basic stuff, I hope not too basic. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
My boat is a Hunter 33. It is difficult to control with winds exceeding 20 knots unless I reef the main and partially furl the genny. Once I have trimmed my sail to the wind conditions, she sails like a dream. Too much sail just makes your boat heel further with less control on the helm. Very basic stuff, I hope not too basic. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
Control
What you are experiancing is not unusual and is not uniqiue to your boat. What is happening at these higher wind speeds is that the sails are steering the boat. In other words the force of the wind on your sails is exceeding the the force of water on your keel and rudder. I completely agree with Ken. In these conditions the sails need to be adjusted to de-power them, either by adding some twist to them to dump off wind higher up or by reefing. On my 380 and on my 336, by the time the wind was to 20 kts, I am looking to at least put the first reef in the mainsail. By 25-30, the second reef goes in and I am reefing the headsail. You won't lose any boat speed, but you will being sailing flatter adn will feel more in control. I know this was a long winded answer, but I hope it helps. Paul Bednarzyk S/V Knot Again
What you are experiancing is not unusual and is not uniqiue to your boat. What is happening at these higher wind speeds is that the sails are steering the boat. In other words the force of the wind on your sails is exceeding the the force of water on your keel and rudder. I completely agree with Ken. In these conditions the sails need to be adjusted to de-power them, either by adding some twist to them to dump off wind higher up or by reefing. On my 380 and on my 336, by the time the wind was to 20 kts, I am looking to at least put the first reef in the mainsail. By 25-30, the second reef goes in and I am reefing the headsail. You won't lose any boat speed, but you will being sailing flatter adn will feel more in control. I know this was a long winded answer, but I hope it helps. Paul Bednarzyk S/V Knot Again
BOAT SPEED = RUDDER POWER!
I don't nevessarily disagree with the other two responders. Certainly, it is possible that the sails are steering the boat too strongly and that you need to depower them. However, a more common problem when trying to sail clause-hauled is that you are simply not making enough speed through the water because you are steering too high ("pinching") and-or steep waves are nearly stopping the boat. Always remember that rudder power is directly a function of BOAT SPEED THROUGH THE WATER (so don't look at the speed your GPS tells you!). If you cannot maintain an average boat speed through the water of 4 knots, or more, you will feel like you are losing your steering every time a wave slows the vessel down further. What to do? Just bear off far enough till you have regained sufficient boatspeed to let the rudder "bite" again. Also, make sure you are hitting the oncoming waves at an angle, rather than head-on. Since waves and wind are not always perfectly aligned (for a variety of reasons) you may discover that on one tack you are almost head-on into the waves when you are close-hauled whereas on the other tack you are meeting the waves at a much more comfortable angle, while making better speed and having more rudder control. Success! Flying Dutchman, "Rivendel II" HL43
I don't nevessarily disagree with the other two responders. Certainly, it is possible that the sails are steering the boat too strongly and that you need to depower them. However, a more common problem when trying to sail clause-hauled is that you are simply not making enough speed through the water because you are steering too high ("pinching") and-or steep waves are nearly stopping the boat. Always remember that rudder power is directly a function of BOAT SPEED THROUGH THE WATER (so don't look at the speed your GPS tells you!). If you cannot maintain an average boat speed through the water of 4 knots, or more, you will feel like you are losing your steering every time a wave slows the vessel down further. What to do? Just bear off far enough till you have regained sufficient boatspeed to let the rudder "bite" again. Also, make sure you are hitting the oncoming waves at an angle, rather than head-on. Since waves and wind are not always perfectly aligned (for a variety of reasons) you may discover that on one tack you are almost head-on into the waves when you are close-hauled whereas on the other tack you are meeting the waves at a much more comfortable angle, while making better speed and having more rudder control. Success! Flying Dutchman, "Rivendel II" HL43
Control
I don't disagree with Henk, the point I was trying to make, and perhaps not too clearly, was simply that at some point, without adjusting sail trim, the air foils will overpower the water foils and the boat will be unbalanced. This is especially true on a close reach. Paul Bednarzyk S/V Knot Again
I don't disagree with Henk, the point I was trying to make, and perhaps not too clearly, was simply that at some point, without adjusting sail trim, the air foils will overpower the water foils and the boat will be unbalanced. This is especially true on a close reach. Paul Bednarzyk S/V Knot Again
Carrying too much vs. too little sail
I realize that the original poster might appreciate some further hints on how to diagnose his problems and decide what to try first. If he is being overpowered, i.e. heeling so much that he is losing boat speed as well as rudder efficiency (due to the sharply angled blade entry), while releasing the traveler and/or mainsheet a fair amount fails to provide adequate relief he will probably decide to put in a reef (or additional reef). Although this should bring the boat back on its feet he may also discover that he can no longer point quite as high as before (due to less efficient sail shape and diminished drive) and may well be underpowered in the luffs (again resulting in poor steering ability due to loss of speed). Consequently, if steering close to the wind is an important requirement (e.g. when trying to weather a headland or cape) he may well want to learn the finer points of "feathering" in order to depower the sails temporarily in the puffs (and keep the boat on its feet), rather than to depower the sails by reefing or other adjustments which cannot be undone and remade in an instant. Although I am not advising here to put reefing off indefinitively, the combination of strong winds and trying to steer a close-hauled course takes a fair amount of gutsiness, stamina and determination ("gentlemen don't sail to windward"). I have seen more sailors fail to achieve this objective by reefing to early -- and thereby becoming too underpowered to drive through the waves (with consequent loss of boat speed and rudder response) -- than by being overcanvassed. Finally, if you have insufficient searoom to bear off but cannot maintain adequate boatspeed (and helmcontrol) on the required close-hauled course, you may well want to try your hand at motorsailing. Many of the boats trying to beat up the Baja coast on their way back to San Diego from Cabo San Lucas and the Sea of Cortez, end up motorsailing more than 50 % of the route. Hope this clarifies things a bit further. Flying Dutchman Finally
I realize that the original poster might appreciate some further hints on how to diagnose his problems and decide what to try first. If he is being overpowered, i.e. heeling so much that he is losing boat speed as well as rudder efficiency (due to the sharply angled blade entry), while releasing the traveler and/or mainsheet a fair amount fails to provide adequate relief he will probably decide to put in a reef (or additional reef). Although this should bring the boat back on its feet he may also discover that he can no longer point quite as high as before (due to less efficient sail shape and diminished drive) and may well be underpowered in the luffs (again resulting in poor steering ability due to loss of speed). Consequently, if steering close to the wind is an important requirement (e.g. when trying to weather a headland or cape) he may well want to learn the finer points of "feathering" in order to depower the sails temporarily in the puffs (and keep the boat on its feet), rather than to depower the sails by reefing or other adjustments which cannot be undone and remade in an instant. Although I am not advising here to put reefing off indefinitively, the combination of strong winds and trying to steer a close-hauled course takes a fair amount of gutsiness, stamina and determination ("gentlemen don't sail to windward"). I have seen more sailors fail to achieve this objective by reefing to early -- and thereby becoming too underpowered to drive through the waves (with consequent loss of boat speed and rudder response) -- than by being overcanvassed. Finally, if you have insufficient searoom to bear off but cannot maintain adequate boatspeed (and helmcontrol) on the required close-hauled course, you may well want to try your hand at motorsailing. Many of the boats trying to beat up the Baja coast on their way back to San Diego from Cabo San Lucas and the Sea of Cortez, end up motorsailing more than 50 % of the route. Hope this clarifies things a bit further. Flying Dutchman Finally
More Weather Helm
I've found a similar tendency to extreme weather helm as the wind pipes up on my shoal draft 33, purchased just over a year ago. I found three culprits. One was mast rake. Despite what Jim Bohart recommended, with the mast set with about 6 inches of back rake the boat was plain EVIL, yawing about the mast. It calmed down considerably by bringing the mast upright. The second factor is rig tune. The headstay must be properly snug to keep it as straight as possible. The third culprit is over-trimming the sails. I find that by easing the main with the vang snugged, and moving the jib lead forward to spill air from the upper portion, I can point as high as the boat seems to be capable, with reasonable speed and comfortable control. Using this combination I find I can reef much later and maintain comfortable control, but I'm also still learning. I maintain my feeling that the rudder on the 33 needs to be a little bigger. That might be one of my winter projects
I've found a similar tendency to extreme weather helm as the wind pipes up on my shoal draft 33, purchased just over a year ago. I found three culprits. One was mast rake. Despite what Jim Bohart recommended, with the mast set with about 6 inches of back rake the boat was plain EVIL, yawing about the mast. It calmed down considerably by bringing the mast upright. The second factor is rig tune. The headstay must be properly snug to keep it as straight as possible. The third culprit is over-trimming the sails. I find that by easing the main with the vang snugged, and moving the jib lead forward to spill air from the upper portion, I can point as high as the boat seems to be capable, with reasonable speed and comfortable control. Using this combination I find I can reef much later and maintain comfortable control, but I'm also still learning. I maintain my feeling that the rudder on the 33 needs to be a little bigger. That might be one of my winter projects
- Status