302 Survey Done

[Mackaroni]

So, I had the survey done and am waiting on the final report. Overall, I think the boat did well. As is to be expected with a boat this age, there are a bunch of smaller things that need to be done with it, and I expected as much. The surveyor said the boat was in great shape and most of what it needs are cosmetic things. I feel as if he did a thorough job.

However, during the course of the survey, there was some moisture noted around the keel area and he recommended dropping the keel to inspect the bolts and ascertain that they haven't been corroded. I am planning on having the keel dropped sometime next week to have this inspected, and was able to work this into my purchase agreement.

I love the boat and really want it, but I have been a little paranoid about all the accounts of the keel falling off. Is there any way to check if this only affects certain hull numbers of boats? Since I am dropping the keel anyway to have the bolts examined, what should I do?

I have also read of people putting aluminum backing plates on the bilge side. Anyone done this? Is this something that is technically sound? Worth it?

Looking for advice, particularly from other 302 owners.

Thanks

 

[Stu Jackson]

If the keel bolts are stainless, don't use aluminum backing plates, use ss. Good luck.

 

[jibes138]

From your picture it looks like you have a small leak at the keel joint, this is likely what the surveyor was talking about. Torquing the bolts might compress the sealant and stop this but dropping the keel to check the bolts is a good idea followed by rebedding it (the keel). While it is dropped, check the thickness of the fiberglass that supports the keel. Make sure there is no wood in there, I don't think O'Day ever did that but Catalina apparently did so you might as well make sure. If the fiberglass material is thin on the order of 1/4 inch or so then report back here for more suggestions. Beefing up the thickness should be pretty easy as long as the keel bolts are long enough. Also Maine Sail did a nice picture thread of a 302 that lost a keel, search on that so you can see what to look for. Good luck.

 

[25yearslater]

Ditto to what jibes said. While this isn't happening with any frequency it is something to take seriously. Your picture shows a sealant of some type smeared on the keel/hull joint. Here is a link to the mainesail report that jibes is referring to: http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1076322&highlight=lost keel

 

[Mackaroni]

Thanks for the replies. I have read and reread those posts so many times I might actually be able to quote it. I am paranoid, so I am going to drop the keel and have the bolts checked and then rebed the joint.

I am debating several things in this process though.

1. Anyone know what it would/should cost to do this job? I certainly can't do it myself. I have a quote from one yard, but didn't know if it was in the ball park or not.

2. I have seen instances of people fiberglassing the rebedded joint to make it more water tight. Is this something I should have done?

3. Should I add a metal strip for backing or just reuse the backing plates? I have heard people say either is ok.

thanks.... Sorry to keep asking what might seem like redundant questions, but I really want to make sure that I cover my bases.

 

[jibes138]

Regarding item 1, depends on the results. If the keel bolts are corroded it will be a lot. If not you will be paying for time with a travel lift, and several yard workers probably all day, I'd guess probably a couple grand.
Item 2 is attempting to encapsulate the keel without fully covering it with fiberglass. If the keel joint is bedded well you should be good for another 25 to 30 years without doing this.
Item 3 you don't really describe what is in there now so hard to respond. If the 302 is like the 35 then you have fairly large thick rectangular plates under each bolt. These should be adequate if they are in good condition. If you only have washers under the bolts I would add backing plates. I wouldn't recommend a one piece strip of metal under multiple bolts, the floor of the bilge is not flat and this would require some of the bolt torque to be used bending the strip to fit the local area, independent pieces will give more degrees of freedom of motion and will fit better and be fine. To get each backing plate to fit perfectly flat on the bilge floor you could put some release compound on them and the keel bolts, then mix some epoxy and filler and put the backing plate over the bolt and hand tighten the screws until the epozy oozes out, wipe up the material oozing out, this will fill any unevenness under the backing plates and give a good flat surface to bear against. Probably overkill but a possibility.

 

[Panta Rei]

I've been lurking on this thread a while. I like the advise your getting but I think I can help you a bit by changing the focus. At the very least , You will feel good that you concidered everything.

I think the main issue this model has is that the keel hull joint design while fine for a traditional keel was not beefed up when they put a winged keel on the boat. Imagine a small swell dropping end of the wing onto a rock. The leaver arm is huge. It will certainly load the keel hull joint many times more that what would happen with a conventional keel. This may or may not have happened to this boat.
It will be interesting to see if your surveyor comes back with photo's of the nuts, backing plates and the glass structure under the backing plates. They generally won't remove anything so you may want your yard to do it and have the surveyor re-inspect. Dye penitrates should be used to check for any cracking. This MUST be done before you go so far as to remove the keel. If you see problems at this point , the owner needs to pay to have the keel droped and the structure repaired.
If you see no problems from above, I would grind away the paint and filler around the joint (both the glass stub and the keel) and glass over the joint.(do this only if your surveyor or yard expert agrees) This will give you something to inspect each year and give you a way of getting a good nights sleep after to go aground someday.

 

[colinhulse]

SS threads

Mine looked nasty but I ran a die nut over them and they cleaned right up. I found the surface in the bilge was not perpendicular to the threads so I bought the SS two part washer from McMaster Carr. the seating part is concave on the top surface and a smaller top piece drops into it adjusting the alignment and spinning as you pull the weight back up rather than gaulling up. you need to know the thread diameter- here's the page. http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-washers/=qfbyhy

 

[Nels]

I was concerned about my 322 when I first bought it also. I saw the same story years ago.

After 8 years of sailing her, (after doing nothing but worrying) I finally noticed a crack of almost 1/4" between the keel/stub joint when diving her.

Major worrying, but not leaking.

I had planned to pull the boat ASAP, etc., etc. This is a big job with a club trailer so it had to sit.

A few weeks later, boat still in the water, I was down checking on things and I had assembled the appropriate tools, 30" swivel head breaker bar, 1-1/2" deep drive socket and 1-1/4" deep drive socket (It's a 322). I checked to see if I could get purchase on the nuts since they looked like the j bolt threads were very tall.

While I did this, I tried a 1/4 turn tighten. No problem.

I then sequence tightened all the bolts. Wonderful.

Moral of the story? Stop worrying, just tighten them.

Keep in mind I am in fresh water. Also, It is a lead keel, so it has J bolts. You do not want to have to replace j-bolts, but I doubt you would ever need to as they are cast into the keel.

Good luck

 

[the_alpine]

I was concerned about my 322 when I first bought it also. I saw the same story years ago.

After 8 years of sailing her, (after doing nothing but worrying) I finally noticed a crack of almost 1/4" between the keel/stub joint when diving her.

Major worrying, but not leaking.

I had planned to pull the boat ASAP, etc., etc. This is a big job with a club trailer so it had to sit.

A few weeks later, boat still in the water, I was down checking on things and I had assembled the appropriate tools, 30" swivel head breaker bar, 1-1/2" deep drive socket and 1-1/4" deep drive socket (It's a 322). I checked to see if I could get purchase on the nuts since they looked like the j bolt threads were very tall.

While I did this, I tried a 1/4 turn tighten. No problem.

I then sequence tightened all the bolts. Wonderful.

Moral of the story? Stop worrying, just tighten them.

Keep in mind I am in fresh water. Also, It is a lead keel, so it has J bolts. You do not want to have to replace j-bolts, but I doubt you would ever need to as they are cast into the keel.

Good luck

Heres what I did to my hull/keel joint. Not my boat or photos, but same idea:
http://spurgeonyachts.com/before__afters

 

[eherlihy]

My O'day 35 suffered from a loose keel when I bought her. It seems that a "minor" leak in the bilge was overlooked, and this led to larger "issues." To address the issues, the keel was dropped, new keel bolts were installed, the keel was re-bedded and attached, and the keel to keel stub joint was wrapped in glass and epoxy and re-fared.

Fortunately for me, these were addressed by the PO before I closed on the boat. To read all about it look at POST #35 here; http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/43505-wet-bilge-more-than-just-nuisance.html